The Mythical Recruiting Disadvantage
- Thread starter tubahawk
- Start date
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
HC, you need to take sit back and take a breathe. There are a few schools that because of past NC and tradition, can recruit nationally (Nebraska, Penn St.) are the two in the BIG.
I think this is all people are saying, not that Iowa doesn't have anything to offer, or couldn't do better, but rather they will never be Nebraska (unless they win multiple NC). It is just a fact, and to compare them to Nebraska is just silly.
I think this is all people are saying, not that Iowa doesn't have anything to offer, or couldn't do better, but rather they will never be Nebraska (unless they win multiple NC). It is just a fact, and to compare them to Nebraska is just silly.
ThunderHawk
Well-Known Member
Boring coach plays boring football => disadvantage.
I was being sarcastic. I love Hayden. The bore with the pink tiger hawk on the other hand....
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but KU basketball started it's history with a 0-0 record, just like every other program.
Tradition is based on the past, and everybody has to start somewhere. KU was not born with tradition. Just because they had success early doesn't mean they were born with tradition..
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Some interesting stuff on a topic that has been kicked around a lot on this board. Just a couple of thoughts: First, I listen to College Sports programming on my XM radio. The personalities are generally SEC oriented. They, to a man, describe the SEC as a "ground and pound" offense conference. They talk about other conferences, particularly the Big 12, as more wide open. So, the "Iowa is too conservative" argument as to why Iowa can't attract big time players doesn't seem to hold much water. Secondly, African American football players are represented beyond their percentage in the US population. We can argue nurture or nature forever, but suffice it to say that it would be no surprise that athletes of any race may consciously or unconsciously gravitate toward schools attended by their fellows. Hayden Fry and KF are both about as color blind as you can get, as are most educated people these days. But, the fact that Iowa does not have a large minority population likely impacts on who enrolls here. Interestingly, once black athletes come to Iowa City, they are somewhat surprised at how much they enjoy the culture. See the article on Mel Basabe in today's news. Finally, it is naïve to think that being in the larger population centers in the country does not create a recruiting advantage. Be practical: How many large cities are proximate to the U. of I.? Do college bound kids in general tend to stay close to home? Do their parents, in the case of football players in particular, want their children close enough that game attendance is a reality? Yes, their are anecdotal exceptions to colleges in less populated areas success in attracting big time players, Nebraska usually cited as a prime example. But, statistically...I would ask you to look at a US map and consider the campuses that are elite football programs and their proximity to large population areas. Just some thoughts you may wish to consider. Thanks for the interesting views on this important topic!
hawkdrummer1
Well-Known Member
Uh, I think you're leaving out a couple. Ever heard of Michigan and Ohio St? Only the 1st and 6th most winning programs in history. And they have a few NCs as well.
whammer33024
Well-Known Member
uh, i think you're leaving out the fact that michigan and ohio have a lot of D1 football prospects. the ones he was referring to aren't as rich in instate football talent as michigan and ohio are
hawkdrummer1
Well-Known Member
Pennsylvania turns out plenty of football talent and it's larger than Ohio or Michigan. It's also right next door to all that Ohio talent... more of an advantage...than disadvantage.
Nebraska...yep.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ll-which-state-produces-the-most-top-recruits
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Would you rather have more players in record books or a higher winning percentage, more Rose Bowl appearances and more conference championships?
OLWPAORWWM
Banned
If anyone thinks that Iowa is not at a geographical disadvantage in attracting out of state recruits, you're beyond reason. The only possible way that someone could think this is if they never lived outside of Iowa in their lives.
I spent 20 years living in southern California, and trust me, people have a negative association with Iowa (The state specifically, and rural culture in general). I couldn't imagine the kind of silver tongue it would take to get a kid from California, Texas, or Florida to come to Iowa.
Also, my son played football in suburban San Diego, and my daughter is a cheerleader in Iowa, so I have watched high school football in both places, and Iowa HS football is like powder-puff in comparison. I mean, night and day. I consider myself a man of letters, but I do not have the words to describe the contrast here.
I spent 20 years living in southern California, and trust me, people have a negative association with Iowa (The state specifically, and rural culture in general). I couldn't imagine the kind of silver tongue it would take to get a kid from California, Texas, or Florida to come to Iowa.
Also, my son played football in suburban San Diego, and my daughter is a cheerleader in Iowa, so I have watched high school football in both places, and Iowa HS football is like powder-puff in comparison. I mean, night and day. I consider myself a man of letters, but I do not have the words to describe the contrast here.
HerkyDude
Well-Known Member
Yeah some people are unrealistic beyond belief, that's why I say they have to harvest in state talent more. Put more effort in coaching kids and they will remember it on signing day. We don't have a warm climate, beaches, and we're not really a bling football program. If I wanted to play somewhere cold I'd choose OSU MI MSU or Syc. Fans need to quit dreaming we're Al GA OSU MI ect we aint get over it. Ferentz does good with what hes got. Hell, at QB I can't say we've even had close to the caliber as some of the big 10 in the last ten years
Is Iowa at a geographical disadvantage? Yes, to a certain extent, but not as much as others. Is Iowa at a disadvantage when it comes to tradition? Yes, to maybe 15 other schools. But you know what overcomes all these so called disadvantages? WINNING CONSISTENTLY!!!!!! Don't complain about disadvantages when they can be overcome. All those so called disadvantages are like excuses, and we all know what excuses are like. Everyone has one and they all stink.
imported_ankle23
Well-Known Member
reason and objectivity not good on this website. people want to believe what they want to believe, history be damned. pitchforks ready, watch out.
you know, last time iowa fired a successful coach to get to the 'next level', things didn't work out so well.......people often forget that things could easily be worse. very easily. heck, just look at Minnesota football - and they have actually won national championships.
hawkdrummer1
Well-Known Member
You must be using Clone math.
Hayden's overall win % 61.6 Ferentz 57.4
Hayden's Big Ten W% 61.6 Ferentz 53.1
Big Ten titles Hayden 3 Ferentz 2
Kirk does have a better bowl record 6-4 vs 6-7-1 for Hayden
How exactly is that KF "far exceeding" Fry?
Extremely conservative? He's credited with single-handedly ending the "BIG 2 - little 8" landscape of the Big Ten. And he did it by shaking up the "3 yards and a cloud of dust" mentality which had dominated the conference for years. Realizing he was often out-manned he used odd strategies and psych games (Bo Schembechler himself said so) to upset the status quo. Nobody says Fry was "wide open", but he was certainly creative...and it worked.
I'd take him in a head-to-head game over Ferentz any day of the week...and twice on Sundays.
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You asked for it, so here it is.
1956 finished 3 in final AP poll
1957 finished 6 in final AP poll
1958 finished 2 in final AP poll
1959 finished with a 5-4 record
1960 finished 3 in final AP poll ...Evy's last year as coach.
In a 5 year span, 3 Big Ten titles.
Iowa must have had some blue chips to amass that kind of a record.
imported_ankle23
Well-Known Member
overall win percentage is about the same - Fry 60%, Ferentz 57%.
More rose bowl appearances? fry coached for what, 20 years, made 3, and was .000 in win percentage. Ferentz has been to 2 BCS level games, and won 1. (see below about rose bowls)
conference championships? how many did fry win? 3i in 20 years. Ferentz has won how many? 2 in 13. Interesting he won a BCS game with the 2009 team and didn't win a conference championship that year.
fry's first rose bowl appearance - he had a record of 8-3, and lost to the clownz that year. show me the team these days that gets to the rose bowl with that record. 2004 team went to the cap 1 bowl that year and finished 10-2.
after 20 years at iowa, fry had two #10 national finishes - in 13 years, ferentz has finished #8 four times.
if your argument is going to be about winning when comparing fry to ferentz, you better sharpen up your argument because ferentz has fry beat.
regarding going to the rose bowl - that is really out of ferentz' hands given the bcs system. to be fair, let's talk about BCS bowl games - Orange, Rose, Fiesta and Sugar were the big January 1st bowls back in fry's era. so apples to apples, fry has 3 appearances, ferentz has 2.
point being - people ***** and moan about ferentz being so conservative, and then reflexively point to Fry. Believe me when I say I sat in the stands in the 90s, and Fry had some HORRIBLE teams. CONSERVATIVE play calling. Etc. You say don't look at the record books - well the record books indicate that Ferentz may not be as bad as some think, and Fry not as good as some seem to think (not taking anything away from Fry, just a fair look at history) And why not have both - Ferentz has produced both wins and record books.
hawkdrummer1
Well-Known Member
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