The 'It can get real bad at Iowa if they hire the wrong coach' thinking

[Sooby]

I don't want to see Gary Barta channels Gorden Gee and says something like, "I hope he doesn't fire me."

The fans forced Gary Barta to fire Todd Lickliter because of the horrible attendance. I'm 42, and I never thought that I would see Carver that empty. In the 80s and 90s, there'd be a foot of snow on the ground and Carver would still be close to capacity.

With football, this isn't like the 1970s where fans will still show up to the game.
With the cost of a family of four to get tickets, pay for parking and concessions, people just won't go the games.
They would rather watch it on their HDTV and fast forward, when they need to.

What got Phil Fulmer let go at Tennessee was the 30% Alabama fans in attendance in Knoxville his last season.
I dare say that there will be more than 30% Husker fans in Kinnick on a national audience.
Phil Fulmer was a solid coach, but his time had run out. No one else had hired him and he's hinted about coaching again.
If Iowa lets go of Ferentz, I just don't see him coaching again. He looks burned out and he's financial set for life.

Rick DiPietro thinks that Kirk's 10-year contract was a bad idea.

 

[GhostofBTT]

I laughed when I read this - because this IS rough sleding


This was the point I was brining up in September....so deep into the program 14 years- and to hit such a low dip.

I dunno. In Hayden's 14th year, we started the year ranked #16, and finished the year 5-7.

 

[mccarthyizm]

My concern with replacing Kirk is not that Iowa would go into the toilet. I'd be more concerned by solid but unspectacular, year in year out. Ferentz has demonstrated the capacity of occasionally putting together a top ten season. I guess I find those (as rare as they are) to be more miraculous and fantastic than stringing together 7-5's and 8-4's. I'd say the latter would be more likely than what Kirk has done.

 

[GhostofBTT]

Lol, yah and then you order more fries.

DID SOMEONE SAY BK???

 

[pumpdog20]

There's only man you should want to replace KF, and he's the leader of the best D in the whole damn land.

 

[Stanzi]

I think that 4 wins is the floor for this team even as bad as this season has been. We'll always have cupcakes out of conference that we will beat, and we'll always win at least a game or two in conference. I don't expect us to return to 8+ wins next season, but I do think we will get back to bowling. We have a lot of freshmen and sophomores playing significant minutes, and we lose almost no seniors that will be true losses. Hyde, Ferentz, and Davis hurt a little bit, but we're not losing any Riley Rieff's or Marvin McNutt's. We will finally get to see a new QB, and let's be honest that position can't be any worse.

 

[CFHawk]

I think that 4 wins is the floor for this team even as bad as this season has been. We'll always have cupcakes out of conference that we will beat, and we'll always win at least a game or two in conference. I don't expect us to return to 8+ wins next season, but I do think we will get back to bowling. We have a lot of freshmen and sophomores playing significant minutes, and we lose almost no seniors that will be true losses. Hyde, Ferentz, and Davis hurt a little bit, but we're not losing any Riley Rieff's or Marvin McNutt's. We will finally get to see a new QB, and let's be honest that position can't be any worse.

Central Michigan says hi.

 

[Stanzi]

Central Michigan says hi.

Heh, yes they do, but I don't expect that to happen much even with Kirk's propensity to play it close.

 

[GhostofBTT]

There's only man you should want to replace KF, and he's the leader of the best D in the whole damn land.

He was my favorite player when I was a kid. I remember watching him walk off the field on his senior day.

#nohomo

 

[hawkdrummer1]

So giving up 2,500 yds in the last 5 games isn't "real bad"? Losing to CMU isnt "real bad". Having an offense than ranks in the 100s isnt "real bad"? Starting walk ons at key positions in year 14 isnt "real bad"?

If that isnt real bad, then I'd hate to know what your definition is!

Exactly.

Rough sledding is HERE. And at an outrageous price.

Come on Jon... that's a pretty transparent defense of the indefensible. This program is completely in the shi**er at a time when KFz has all the equity and resources to build a top team in the conference and a meaningful team on the National Stage.

He's failing miserably.

 

[NCHawker]

I dunno. In Hayden's 14th year, we started the year ranked #16, and finished the year 5-7.

Ghosts, I don't care what Hayden did. It's still a valid question.

 

[sportstalent]

It is time to cut ties with Ferentz, I don't care how much Iowa will have to pay him to do so. Iowa is not and has not been recruiting at the level he was a few seasons ago. It doesn't help when the cornerstone of your offensive line is declaring for the NFL draft though either and people wonder why Iowa can't run the ball, back-ups simply not ready along with injuries.
Here is the problem at Iowa with Ferentz, there are not many athletes on the team, today is a good point of that. I don't care that UM has statistically the best pass defense in the nation, to have a WR not catch a ball until the 4th quarter is quite frankly one of the strongest arguments to how this program has fallen and will continue to fall under Kirk. Can they have a worse season next year, probably not, but the problem is, does anyone logically see Iowa going to a major bowl game in the next four years? Can they win at a high level again under Ferentz, my answer is no.
Iowa made the mistake of keeping Hayden a couple of years too long and look how Ferentz's career started, not too much better than this season has went. Ferentz has done a phenomenal job while at Iowa, but with all the off-field issues to go along with what it takes to win in the BIG, he appears a broken man when you look at him. I think he has aged 30 years since taking the job and probably 10 of those after the debacle of a couple seasons ago.
Ferentz isn't going anywhere though as people will want to give his coordinators another year of "their" system to see how they adjust. Keep in mind Davis will have the youngster that everyone loves next year at QB, so what will the excuse be then if the offense is terrible? Iowa still has no WR's, my GOD Ed Hinkle would look like a first rounder compared to what is on the field. CJF reminds me a lot of Jason Witten, the problem is he is the only decent guy that can catch the ball.
In all honesty, Iowa needs to get back to getting WR's in the mold of CJ Jones and start hitting the JUCO ranks for some athletes as they certainly aren't getting any in the freshman ranks. Take the K-State approach, maybe not 24 on the field per game, but Iowa needs help now as in yesterday and not tomorrow.

 

[kicker22]

My fear is the amount of time it will take to get enough athletes in place to make a new staff and new scheme work. Right now its obvious that we lack the athletes. We could bring in a new coach with a new mindset, but IMO we don't have the athletes to pull it off. We have athletes modeled for Kirk's scheme and style of play and I think it could be a situation like we have in basketball where the new guy gets run out and fails miserably .

I'm not saying change isn't necessary, but I think we're years away from getting enough playmakers into the program to make an impact with a new scheme and while I'm not happy about the 7-5 "norm" I'm not thrilled about the possibility of three or four years of four win seasons. As much as it hurts me to say it, I'm beginning to think our biggest problem is the lack of athleticism on both sides of the ball and that's hurting us more than the coaching.

 

[sportstalent]

My fear is the amount of time it will take to get enough athletes in place to make a new staff and new scheme work. Right now its obvious that we lack the athletes. We could bring in a new coach with a new mindset, but IMO we don't have the athletes to pull it off. We have athletes modeled for Kirk's scheme and style of play and I think it could be a situation like we have in basketball where the new guy gets run out and fails miserably .

I'm not saying change isn't necessary, but I think we're years away from getting enough playmakers into the program to make an impact with a new scheme and while I'm not happy about the 7-5 "norm" I'm not thrilled about the possibility of three or four years of four win seasons. As much as it hurts me to say it, I'm beginning to think our biggest problem is the lack of athleticism on both sides of the ball and that's hurting us more than the coaching.

So if Iowa were to make a coaching change there is a transition period, but how is that worse than being pizzed off after every game win or lose because of the game plan put forth by the same coach? Also, that philosophy has not worked out too well with Iowa losing games it shouldn't and then having a major regression this season.
Look I am an A&M football fan (Huge Iowa Basketball fan) and I have been telling my brother (Huge Iowa fan all sports) for at least three years it is time for Iowa to move on. Look at A&M firing Sherman after the 2nd half collapses last season, a lot of people said it was a political move because they were moving to the SEC and it was unfair. The difference, Sherman recruited talent and athletes, look at how Sumlin has transformed that team, although they had two 2nd half collapses.
My point being, if Iowa was recruiting worth a crap at this time, it wouldn't matter who they brought in as long as they fit the talent in their system as the good coaches do and the transition wouldn't be scary to those that are worried about a bad hire.

 

[HawkPrdatr40]

Iowa could potentially be just steps away from that rough sledding with KF.. How do we know that might not be the case?

I always get a chuckle out of the we are one wrong hire away threat...

 

[kicker22]

So if Iowa were to make a coaching change there is a transition period, but how is that worse than being pizzed off after every game win or lose because of the game plan put forth by the same coach? Also, that philosophy has not worked out too well with Iowa losing games it shouldn't and then having a major regression this season.
Look I am an A&M football fan (Huge Iowa Basketball fan) and I have been telling my brother (Huge Iowa fan all sports) for at least three years it is time for Iowa to move on. Look at A&M firing Sherman after the 2nd half collapses last season, a lot of people said it was a political move because they were moving to the SEC and it was unfair. The difference, Sherman recruited talent and athletes, look at how Sumlin has transformed that team, although they had two 2nd half collapses.

My point being, if Iowa was recruiting worth a crap at this time, it wouldn't matter who they brought in as long as they fit the talent in their system as the good coaches do and the transition wouldn't be scary to those that are worried about a bad hire.

I agree with you completely. I guess my point was that this transformation isn't going to take place over night regardless of who the coaches are. I think alot of people are saying that the simple answer is to fire KF. My point is that that would only be the beginning and there will be a great deal of patience needed to ride the storm out. We're not at a luxury to think that simply replacing a coach is going to turn this team around, because the lack of athleticism we are faced with would ruin just about any one they bring in. It's the same situation facing Coach Davis at this point, we could bring in anyone as the offensive coordinator but the fact is it's hard to be productive when the cubbard is bare and the athleticism and speed is missing.

Edit: My point is Lick was a terrible hire. Fran was a very good one. We can say as much as we want about Alford, but the fact was we took a major step backward tat could have been avoided. To say that there's no reason to worry that they might not bring in the right guy is something I just don't buy in to, I think there always needs to be some concern.

 

[sportstalent]

I agree with you completely. I guess my point was that this transformation isn't going to take place over night regardless of who the coaches are. I think alot of people are saying that the simple answer is to fire KF. My point is that that would only be the beginning and there will be a great deal of patience needed to ride the storm out. We're not at a luxury to think that simply replacing a coach is going to turn this team around, because the lack of athleticism we are faced with would ruin just about any one they bring in. It's the same situation facing Coach Davis at this point, we could bring in anyone as the offensive coordinator but the fact is it's hard to be productive when the cubbard is bare and the athleticism and speed is missing.

I agree with you as well here, Davis was put in a position to fail at least in his first season. Wasn't he hired after NSD? If he can get some of those speedy little dudes out of TX like Welker/Amendola his offense will look better much faster. I order for any offense to work, you have to have something of a threat outside, or at least from the slot position...today, Iowa has neither. So the question comes down to do you fire Ferentz and start over...or give Davis/Parker a couple of more seasons to get their players in place and do the things they want to do? Parker wasn't put in too much better of a situation, but the problem there is he has been at Iowa.
The big picture problem is the University will soon be at a crossroads as what really to do, what if Iowa wins 5 games next year...how much better are they going to be with a new QB? Not to say they can't be better, but I am still wondering how they won 4 games this year and I have watched a few games this year. I have been completely surprised at how JVB has looked, but when you have no threat outside how good can one be?
When it comes down to it, with the problems at RB and other off the field issues Iowa does not have a lot of talent right now. Iowa's best recruits and most impactful recruits have been offensive lineman in the last three years, that is a good and bad thing. They just aren't getting the under-recruited athletes anymore, athletes can be coached up and that is what Iowa did so well for so long, but that has changed.

 

[racerhawk]

I say give Kurt one more year, and then buy him out if the results are the same.

 

[HawkeyeJim75]

I agree with you as well here, Davis was put in a position to fail at least in his first season. Wasn't he hired after NSD? If he can get some of those speedy little dudes out of TX like Welker/Amendola his offense will look better much faster. I order for any offense to work, you have to have something of a threat outside, or at least from the slot position...today, Iowa has neither. So the question comes down to do you fire Ferentz and start over...or give Davis/Parker a couple of more seasons to get their players in place and do the things they want to do? Parker wasn't put in too much better of a situation, but the problem there is he has been at Iowa.
The big picture problem is the University will soon be at a crossroads as what really to do, what if Iowa wins 5 games next year...how much better are they going to be with a new QB? Not to say they can't be better, but I am still wondering how they won 4 games this year and I have watched a few games this year. I have been completely surprised at how JVB has looked, but when you have no threat outside how good can one be?
When it comes down to it, with the problems at RB and other off the field issues Iowa does not have a lot of talent right now. Iowa's best recruits and most impactful recruits have been offensive lineman in the last three years, that is a good and bad thing. They just aren't getting the under-recruited athletes anymore, athletes can be coached up and that is what Iowa did so well for so long, but that has changed.

Maybe the talent is True Frosh, Next years Frosh and Sophs. Groom those players and see if the talent has struck. Meanwhile, you try harder to get the speedy, soft-hands, play making players that bring instant game changing abilities to Iowa and then let's see what we have.

Iowa is hand cuffed right now. I say next year may be a totally different outcome and we will be able to breathe much better until they are able to get to the top of the Big-Ten and go to the BCS bowls where breathing will be well worth it.

KF is still the answer. He lacks experienced players that's all.

 

[AZHAWKFAN1]

Norm ran a 'bend but don't break' defense. Phil runs a ' bend, break, stumble about, fall down, quit' defense. The offense is even worse! These are Kirks' hires. It doesn't speak well............