Tebow wonderlick prayer
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JehovahShalom
Well-Known Member
You are a bit off in your interpretation and application with this....The intent of those(hypocrites), and their prayers, in the scripture you quoted is the big question. It seems from reading the article, for those that read it, that Tim was simply asking if anyone wanted to pray before the test. It really was as simple as that.
SteveGarvey
Well-Known Member
Well said, JehovahShalom.
As we saw from the Vice President the other day, we have enough vulgarity in society right now. I know the NFL isn't made up of choir boys but there's still no place for that. You don't want to pray just say so and excuse yourself. I'm guessing if this player would have said "no thanks, Tim". Then Tebow would have smiled at him and said "that's cool" or something like that.
JehovahShalom
Well-Known Member
Howdy Steve... I have to disagree with you 
I think Tim would have said "that's cool... and God Bless"
I do understand why there is backlash where Tim is concerned.... but I also think Tim is sincere and just being himself with his "God Bless" and praying etc... Tim's intent isn't to push his faith... his faith(and being open with it) is part of who he is. In Tim's case he has been in the public eye so much that folks think there is some mega agenda to it and I think the media has played that up far more than Tim has.
I think Tim would have said "that's cool... and God Bless" I do understand why there is backlash where Tim is concerned.... but I also think Tim is sincere and just being himself with his "God Bless" and praying etc... Tim's intent isn't to push his faith... his faith(and being open with it) is part of who he is. In Tim's case he has been in the public eye so much that folks think there is some mega agenda to it and I think the media has played that up far more than Tim has.
JehovahShalom
Well-Known Member
I agree with your point... with that then, shouldn't the other guys have respected Tim's wishes to pray? I read the article and I don't see where Tim was claiming "religious superiority" over anyone... I think he simply asked if anyone wanted to pray.
For example.... I'm an alcoholic and I haven't had a drink in over 15+ years.... people still ask me if I want a beer if I'm out with a group or over at someone’s house. I simply say "no thanks". I don't say "I'm a f-ing alcoholic why the heck would you try and force beer on me!"
This is good stuff.... good conversation....
For example.... I'm an alcoholic and I haven't had a drink in over 15+ years.... people still ask me if I want a beer if I'm out with a group or over at someone’s house. I simply say "no thanks". I don't say "I'm a f-ing alcoholic why the heck would you try and force beer on me!"
This is good stuff.... good conversation....
"You don't want to pray just say so and excuse yourself. I'm guessing if this player would have said "no thanks, Tim". Then Tebow would have smiled at him and said "that's cool" or something like that."
Why should the guy who doesn't want to pray excuse himself? Like it was stated before, it was a test for the NFL, not a church function. If Tebow wanted to pray, HE should excuse himself, or prayed before entering the room. Simple as that.
Why should the guy who doesn't want to pray excuse himself? Like it was stated before, it was a test for the NFL, not a church function. If Tebow wanted to pray, HE should excuse himself, or prayed before entering the room. Simple as that.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
Howdy Steve... I have to disagree with you
I do understand why there is backlash where Tim is concerned.... but I also think Tim is sincere and just being himself with his "God Bless" and praying etc... Tim's intent isn't to push his faith... his faith(and being open with it) is part of who he is. In Tim's case he has been in the public eye so much that folks think there is some mega agenda to it and I think the media has played that up far more than Tim has.
I don't think he's insincere in the least. He just wears his faith on his sleeve so much that it will inevitably rub people the wrong way, particularly since he's been hyped up to be the best college player of all time almost from the minute he stepped on Gainesville soil.
I think his faith is legit, it's not just a show. But he has made a spectacle of it at times. Kurt Warner is the example Tim should look to. Kurt was a little over the top early in his career, but he toned it down some as he got older out of respect for others. Constantly being as open as Tebow is about his faith is like calling people who don't believe what he does "shallow". I don't think that's how Tim intends things to be, but it's often how it's taken.
SteveGarvey
Well-Known Member
So now we can't even ask if others want to pray in society? Were there any restrictions placed there that prohibited open prayer? And, BTW, you don't have to be in a church/synagogue/mosque to pray. I'm also wondering that, if Tebow scored a 22 on his wlick then maybe the guy who said STFU scored down in the Troy Davis neighborhood.
GravyJones
Well-Known Member
Judging by his Wonderlic score, he may not be smart enough to make those adjustments.
GravyJones
Well-Known Member
Nobody is saying he shouldn't be allowed to pray or express his beliefs. You suggested the others should have left the room which is absurd.
Bubbrub
Well-Known Member
Thanks Jehova for your critique, but Tebow's intent is what I was bringing up - just like the religious hypocrites noted in the passage. I don't think it was, as you stated, "as simple as that." He seems to me to want to be in the spotlight, to be seen praying by everyone around him, to be seen as some great man of god, just like the people in Matthew 6. Maybe I'm wrong and the media are more to blame, but I think these tactics have backfired for him. Most of my non-Christian friends, family members, and coworkers who follow college football are tired of Tebow and see him as an annoying bible thumper.
NewMexHawk
Well-Known Member
I am not a christian and do not accept Christ as my saviour and I don't go around telling making everyone aware of how I believe and wanting them to believe as I do. That is personal and should stay as such...period!
There is a time and place for everything. If I were sitting in that room getting ready to concentrate on a test and Tebow said that, I would probably ask him to pray for himself if that is what he wants to do and leave me alone. I think he forgets (or he doesn't care) that not everyone around him is a christian and may not believe as he does. And if he doesn't care then he is being very intrusive and has no right. He should keep his beliefs to himself. That is my opinion.
There is a time and place for everything. If I were sitting in that room getting ready to concentrate on a test and Tebow said that, I would probably ask him to pray for himself if that is what he wants to do and leave me alone. I think he forgets (or he doesn't care) that not everyone around him is a christian and may not believe as he does. And if he doesn't care then he is being very intrusive and has no right. He should keep his beliefs to himself. That is my opinion.
NewMexHawk
Well-Known Member
Let me ask this question:
Let's say that everyone devoutly prays with Tebow. Would god have listened and helped everyone get a better test score? Would god have really stepped in and helped a bunch of guys get a better Wonderlick score? And what about those who truly believe who end up getting terrible scores? Who would they attribute those scores to--the devil?
Therein is the foolishness of praying at an event such as this. Praying has its time and place and praying before a Wonderlick test...well, sometimes praying can be overrated.
Plus, one really has to ask the question--does a god truly listen to prayers and how and when does a god intervene after listening to a prayer, if indeed a god does. Obviously there are many gods and have been through history, each meaning something special depending on one's religion, and each being the ONLY true god...just like the Christian god is the only true god; the muslim god is the only true god, and so on and people will swear on it and believe it with all their hearts until their deaths that they will go someplace special and everyone else...well, that is their problem.
This is one of the fun aspects of religion that I have thought about since I have been 12 years old and why I don't get too wrapped up in religion and one god...I have my beliefs and guess what...they are just as valid as any belief, that is the funny part about it. And when we die, NO ONE knows what happens except we all rot and return to part of the earth and return back to molecules and energy. But where we go and what happens NO one truly knows...
Let's say that everyone devoutly prays with Tebow. Would god have listened and helped everyone get a better test score? Would god have really stepped in and helped a bunch of guys get a better Wonderlick score? And what about those who truly believe who end up getting terrible scores? Who would they attribute those scores to--the devil?
Therein is the foolishness of praying at an event such as this. Praying has its time and place and praying before a Wonderlick test...well, sometimes praying can be overrated.
Plus, one really has to ask the question--does a god truly listen to prayers and how and when does a god intervene after listening to a prayer, if indeed a god does. Obviously there are many gods and have been through history, each meaning something special depending on one's religion, and each being the ONLY true god...just like the Christian god is the only true god; the muslim god is the only true god, and so on and people will swear on it and believe it with all their hearts until their deaths that they will go someplace special and everyone else...well, that is their problem.
This is one of the fun aspects of religion that I have thought about since I have been 12 years old and why I don't get too wrapped up in religion and one god...I have my beliefs and guess what...they are just as valid as any belief, that is the funny part about it. And when we die, NO ONE knows what happens except we all rot and return to part of the earth and return back to molecules and energy. But where we go and what happens NO one truly knows...
JehovahShalom
Well-Known Member
iowahawkeyes89
Well-Known Member
Their grown men, if they want to pray, they can.
Tebow can do the same, its not his place to ask everyone if they want to pray. And for all we know, he could have asked everyone to do it, in a demanding way.
iowahawkeyes89
Well-Known Member
And for the record, his prayer wasn't answer, he did poorly.
lightning1
Well-Known Member
As one poster replied in the response portion of that article, "Tebow should have spent more time studying and less time praying, he scored a 22."
SteveGarvey
Well-Known Member
How do you know he didn't pray to do the best he could and that was a 22? How do you know he would have gotten a 21 but his prayers helped him do better? That's right, you don't know.
Christ told his disciples that they would be hated because they hated Him (paraphrasing).
'Nuff said.
SirEdHightower
Well-Known Member
Golden rule.
If everyone would abide by this, there would be no need for religion. Tim would have respected that others believe differently from him, therefore praying on his own, and the person who said stfu would(if Tim still brought it up) would have responded in a more cordial manner.
Wouldn't matter what God you pray to, or how many times you go to church, it would be that you respect what God has created and simply try to live a good life.
I grew up in religion, and naturally question it time to time. Hers is one for you. Is your God a selfish God? Aren't we told not to be selfish and arrogant and act as we are above all else? Then why do so many "Gods" need to be praised all of the time? Wouldn't they rather you do some good by "praising" others in need instead. And by praising I mean helping. My God doesn't want me praising him, he wants me helping others that he created and may be struggling, that is how I praise him. I don't need to say a word to him or acknowledge him in the least if I try and live a good life and do good to others.
Another thought...
Tebow's NFL team is playing Warner's (hypothetical). Both give God great praise before the game hoping to come out victorious with God's help. One of them is going to lose, did God determine that? I don't think so....
What it comes down to is every religion has flaws except the simplest one known to man....the Golden Rule.
As L. Ron Hubbard the founder of Scientology quoted," The easiest way to make a million dollars is to start a religion." Scientology is one of the fastest growing religions on earth, kind of scary.
And another random thought...
I was at my friends house and we were shooting the shat in his front yard. There is a large church across the street and he mentioned that they were doing like a 10 million dollar overhaul of it. I asked what was wrong with it and he said nothing, just outdated and wanted to encourage new members to join. He is a member of this christian church and I asked him honestly,"Would your God rather you spend 10 million for a more comfortable, hip and luxurious church or spend that money helping the less fortunate and uneducated of the community. He had no answer. We have become so skewed. I recall a story in the bible of Jesus ravaging a temple for similar reasons. I recall Jesus teaching in the most simple of settings in the simplest of clothing. I don't recall a dress code or a demanded financial "offering". Time to get back to basics.
If everyone would abide by this, there would be no need for religion. Tim would have respected that others believe differently from him, therefore praying on his own, and the person who said stfu would(if Tim still brought it up) would have responded in a more cordial manner.
Wouldn't matter what God you pray to, or how many times you go to church, it would be that you respect what God has created and simply try to live a good life.
I grew up in religion, and naturally question it time to time. Hers is one for you. Is your God a selfish God? Aren't we told not to be selfish and arrogant and act as we are above all else? Then why do so many "Gods" need to be praised all of the time? Wouldn't they rather you do some good by "praising" others in need instead. And by praising I mean helping. My God doesn't want me praising him, he wants me helping others that he created and may be struggling, that is how I praise him. I don't need to say a word to him or acknowledge him in the least if I try and live a good life and do good to others.
Another thought...
Tebow's NFL team is playing Warner's (hypothetical). Both give God great praise before the game hoping to come out victorious with God's help. One of them is going to lose, did God determine that? I don't think so....
What it comes down to is every religion has flaws except the simplest one known to man....the Golden Rule.
As L. Ron Hubbard the founder of Scientology quoted," The easiest way to make a million dollars is to start a religion." Scientology is one of the fastest growing religions on earth, kind of scary.
And another random thought...
I was at my friends house and we were shooting the shat in his front yard. There is a large church across the street and he mentioned that they were doing like a 10 million dollar overhaul of it. I asked what was wrong with it and he said nothing, just outdated and wanted to encourage new members to join. He is a member of this christian church and I asked him honestly,"Would your God rather you spend 10 million for a more comfortable, hip and luxurious church or spend that money helping the less fortunate and uneducated of the community. He had no answer. We have become so skewed. I recall a story in the bible of Jesus ravaging a temple for similar reasons. I recall Jesus teaching in the most simple of settings in the simplest of clothing. I don't recall a dress code or a demanded financial "offering". Time to get back to basics.
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JehovahShalom
Well-Known Member
Good thoughts in here.... I think God (my God) considers doing good for others as praise for Him... see how it works it's not God or others... it's Praising God through helping/being nice/etc... to others. That is what God wants. The case can be made that Tim shouldn't have asked about praying... but I think his intentions were in good faith.
Matthew 25:40 (New International Version)
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
Matthew 25 - PassageLookup - New International Version - BibleGateway.com
it's not God or others... it's Praising God through helping/being nice/etc... to others. That is what God wants. The case can be made that Tim shouldn't have asked about praying... but I think his intentions were in good faith.Matthew 25:40 (New International Version)
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
Matthew 25 - PassageLookup - New International Version - BibleGateway.com
