Fryowa
Administrator
I was thinking basketball, but...touché.
Something doesn’t add up
- Thread starter NikeHawk21
- Start date
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Besides the financial, what other disadvantages does the non scholarship athlete face?
Does it depend on the school, conference, or NCAA?
Once upon a time athletes not on scholarship were ineligible for training table meals except for game day and there may have been rules governing tutors, study tables, etc.
Anyone know what the stipulations are today?
EDIT: We had a player in the Dean Oliver/Ricky Davis era named Kyle Galloway who played on what I believe was an academic scholarship, which allowed Tom to give an extra athletic scholarship to another player. He was from Sioux City, which has been a Football/Basketball hotbed the last 25 years or so. Sioux City is closer to Lincoln than Iowa City. Does Nebraska even recruit up there? I know Bo and Barry have checked Dubuque athletes over the years. Dubuque is exactly halfway between Iowa City and Madison.
Does it depend on the school, conference, or NCAA?
Once upon a time athletes not on scholarship were ineligible for training table meals except for game day and there may have been rules governing tutors, study tables, etc.
Anyone know what the stipulations are today?
EDIT: We had a player in the Dean Oliver/Ricky Davis era named Kyle Galloway who played on what I believe was an academic scholarship, which allowed Tom to give an extra athletic scholarship to another player. He was from Sioux City, which has been a Football/Basketball hotbed the last 25 years or so. Sioux City is closer to Lincoln than Iowa City. Does Nebraska even recruit up there? I know Bo and Barry have checked Dubuque athletes over the years. Dubuque is exactly halfway between Iowa City and Madison.
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I thought he did plan ahead. He gave a scholarship to Nunge when there wasn't one last year. He brought in Fredrick to put us 2 scholarships short this year. When one left, he gave it to Fredrick. It took 2 guys leaving this late in the recruiting cycle to finally give him one.
Next year he has 2 open spots. I would bet a million bucks he would take 4 guys if he can find them.
ArvadaHawk
Well-Known Member
i know...i agree with your logic, to be honest. but i also can't rail against coaches that do it. i just couldn't resist.
That doesn't really help your original point that good coaches shouldn't let that happen. Coach K couldn't prevent it. It's not that he only wanted 7 players. It's just that shit happens.
Fryowa
Administrator
I’m not saying you can prevent it from happening, what you can (or should) do is make good use of them if they become available.
trj
Well-Known Member
No.....Duke was a victim of their own success. Instead of developing a championship caliber team every 2 or 3 years, Coach K needed to have a championship team every year. He had no choice, but to embrace the one and done(s).
trj
Well-Known Member
I get what you are saying. However, it is a NBA thing, not an NCAA. The NBA reacted to a perception problem, not a reality one.
Fryowa
Administrator
The NBA reacted to the NCAA complaining about kids not playing college ball. It’s very much an NCAA thing.
The NBA couldn’t care less if anyone goes to school and would much rather have them go direct. If they were worried about a perception problem they’d make kids wait until they’re 21 to play. The one and done rule has caused much more controversy and perception problems than when Kobe and LeBron went straight out of high school. This is the NCAA driving it.
trj
Well-Known Member
The NBA players union cared about the age limit because it meant more jobs and money for vets. The other half of the partnership(owners) were dealing with an image problem. The perception was the league had too many immature, knucklehead Kwame Brown types. It wasn’t accurate, but that was the perception. Remember the late 90’s, early 2000’s the league had an image problem post Jordan era.
You are not wrong with what you are saying it is just one side of the issue.
lightning1
Well-Known Member
And 2 extra spots in 2019. There are hundreds of basketball prospects still available in 2019. We'll see if he signs a total of 13 outside of Connor and Patrick.
So he only has room for one more guy as of now, right? My guess is he's looking for at least 2 more spots. If he finds them, no way he passes them up just to keep both kids on scholarship. He's in an awesome situation where he can oversign by 2 players, then take away his son's ship if no one leaves. I guarantee that's what he will attempt to do.
lightning1
Well-Known Member
He's only got 11 spoken for in 2018, if he chose not to give one to Connor. 10 spoken for in 2019, if he chose not to give them to Connor and Patrick. He could do a lot with 3 open ships. Especially given how often players transfer.
I look at it this way. Say he doesn't give Patrick and Connor scholarships. He pays for their tuitions and he has 5 open scholarships with 10 players already on the roster for this late '18 period and the '19 class. If he fills all 5 scholarship players that's 15 total players on the roster, plus Till and Ash and they even have an open walk-on spot.....we're talking about an 18 player BASKETBALL roster. That's insane. I think 15 is a lot already. I'm a Fran supporter (not the point of the post), but my one critique is that he plays too many guys and then we're asking him to have 18 players on his roster and most are expecting those 5 scholarships to be filled with even better players than we have already? We would have a 15 player rotation (not actually...I'd hope). Not to mention what it would look like for future recruits and incoming 2020 recruits (Foster, Suggs, etc.) who we have good relationships with already. I can only imagine what that conversation sounds like, "Hey we can field an entire football team, offense and defense, but you should come to Iowa. There's ample of playing time with the other 17 guys we have on the roster."
All jokes aside, I understand where people are coming from, but think about the kind of prospect Iowa could get this late in the process for '18. Grad transfers are already deciding (I know he could've tried sooner), but he didn't so what are the other options? The only HS recruit you're going to get right now is someone who's decommitted late in the process or a project, late bloomer (i.e. Maishe Dailey) which fans would not be happy with because of immediate help. The only prospect I've seen Iowa could potentially have a chance with if they were to engage at this point that would be a good prospect is Ed Chang. Athletic, legit 3 man from Nebraska. Played on Barnstormers with Joe Wieskamp and seems to be pretty good friends with PMac.
Juco transfer doesn't seem likely either, especially if it's a PG cause that takes away from Carton.
So what is FM supposed to go after at this point in the process?
Sorry my math was off by one player I believe. 12 scholarships, 5 maybe 4 "walk-ons" with PMac and CM. So 16-17 total, with 14 players having either gotten playing time at Iowa or are ranked high enough they should be getting playing time at Iowa.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
What you’re saying actually doesn’t add up. Cook is either gone this offseason or next offseason that much is apparent. So he has the two scholarships he needs to go after two guys as you say (Pat can walk on if needed). I don’t think we need another class of 4 or more players to be quite honest. We need to start balancing classes.
Also Nunge was promised Dale Jones scholarship as he wasn’t promised an additional year here.
I don’t think you or I or anyone should get into this guaranteeing of what Fran will do. We had people guaranteeing we’d hit the grad transfer market after Ellingson and Wagner moved on, and Fran came out an basically said they didn’t even pursue it.
We can speculate all we want but I have a tough time believing anyone know what Fran’s plans are at this point.
It's not about getting a 15 player roster. It's about improving the roster. Most of the time, guys will just end up leaving anyway. Once they do, you can give your kid the scholarship for the year. Like Fran did this year. But it sure is nice to have the option to oversign by 2 every year. It gives you a way better chance at a better roster. We sure could have used that luxury the year we signed Jok. We missed out on a pretty darn good player that year. If that happened now, Fran would just take Morgan anyway and have his kid walk on for a year.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Is it that common now to juggle scholarships and anticipate what player A is unexpectedly do in nine months and try to remember what you told player B and make sure it doesn't interfere with player C and watch your NCAA P's and Q's the whole time? Wow, no wonder these coaches are grumpy and stressed. And why recruiting has become an absolute jungle. It's almost like they have to re-learn the alphabet just to coach and recruit.
