So what is going to take to win at Iowa

[Fryowa]

That's what I was wondering - is the door completely shut on TL? Also - I heard we were possibly in on a 3 star PG from Buffalo? Unsure of his name. I am hopeful that with DJ letting Iowa know now that they at least have targets they haven't been offering because they were showing him the love.

Rob said in his article that he thinks Fran is going to forget about a PG in this class and go after one in the next class. He needs to go out and try to find a big body down low instead of all these bean poles who can't hold their own in the paint. Scoring is not our problem.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

It shouldn't be surprising though. Iowa is a less than mediocre basketball school. It's been 20 years since the Hawks went deeper than the 2nd round of the tournament and in that span they've only qualified 6 times (5 if you think the play-in game is bullshit, like me). Iowa State eats our lunch in both of those categories and they have two conference wins.

ISU, UNI, and Creighton (I know it's not Iowa, but come on...) have all made more NCAA tournaments than us, gone deeper, and had more conference titles. I know UNI and Creighton are MVC schools, but they also don't have even a tenth of the resources Iowa does to recruit and get on TV in a major conference.

We need to face it that Iowa is a small fish now, and it's been a small fish long enough for that description to stick. This ain't Tom Davisland anymore. 5 star guys, even in-state ones, aren't going to come here if they don't feel like they can play post season ball and win games. Iowa has to give them a reason other than where they were born.

And I get losing guys to UNC, Kentucky, UCLA, Kansas or whoever. But losing to THREE B1G schools? Doesn't bode well for Fran's future if you ask me...which you shouldn't, because mine is but one opinion, anyway.

 

[Fryowa]

And I get losing guys to UNC, Kentucky, UCLA, Kansas or whoever. But losing to THREE B1G schools? Doesn't bode well for Fran's future if you ask me...which you shouldn't, because mine is but one opinion, anyway.

I guess for me it boils down to my last statement in the above post.

Iowa has to give recruits a reason to come here other than where they're from. If I had a 5* kid who was choosing between Michigan, Indiana, MSU, and Iowa, I sure as hell wouldn't tell him to take Iowa because he's from here.

Different sport but look at Noah Fant...

He chose Iowa over his home state program. He did it because he felt Iowa was a better fit, and look at the shape their program is in. It's hot garbage, similar to our basketball team. Iowa has put a ton of TEs in the NFL too. Clark, Moeaki, Chandler, Myers, Fiedorowicz, Kittle, Krieger-Coble...others...

And now, in large part due to where he went to college, Fant will be the next one on the list. He jumped ship on Nebraska because we had way more to offer him.

Those are the kinds of things that are going to get and keep 5* talent in state. I don't see it happening for the Hawks b-ball.

 

[tksirius]

Rob said in his article that he thinks Fran is going to forget about a PG in this class and go after one in the next class. He needs to go out and try to find a big body down low instead of all these bean poles who can't hold their own in the paint. Scoring is not our problem.

Almost everyone will disagree with me, but I'm sticking to my story that Fran hasn't been all that concerned about getting a pg in this class to begin with. Connor is his #1 pg, especially after JBo graduates. Things could change depending on Connor's success with the baseball team.

 

[BryceC]

My honest opinion is that Iowa puts too much emphasis on recruiting Iowa. I know this will draw some guffaws since I'm an ISU fan... but the simple matter of the fact is that while you could build a great team with just Iowa talent most years, ISU and Iowa have consistently failed to draw that talent. People ragged on Mr. Davis dang near 25 years ago for not landing LaFrentz. With the eggs all in the Iowa preps basket, when Iowa misses on the top guys it leaves them holding the bag in a bad way.

In the 247 database, Iowa has landed two top 100 kids from outside of Iowa since 2003. Tyler Smith and Tyler Cook. Smith bailed after one year and Cook hasn't delivered a tourney yet.

Yes, if Iowa landed all of the big fish in Iowa over the last 25 years, it would probably have a few more second weekend visits in the tourney. However, it didn't happen. I don't think you can expect it to change. My opinion is that Iowa needs better national recruiters at the helm. Or they need to get creative in how they have brought in that talent, and no I'm not talking about paying guys. JC's and transfers need to be on the table for a program trying to get a seat back at the table for programs on the level of ISU and Iowa. Again just my opinion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_Hawkeyes_men's_basketball

If you look at this list of all conference guys at the bottom, since 2000 there haven't been many years Iowa has had multiple all conference guys. The years there are multiple guys, you can see those are the years where Iowa is good and makes the tourney. The simple fact is Iowa needs more good players.

 

[Fryowa]

Almost everyone will disagree with me, but I'm sticking to my story that Fran hasn't been all that concerned about getting a pg in this class to begin with. Connor is his #1 pg, especially after JBo graduates. Things could change depending on Connor's success with the baseball team.

I've thought all along that Connor has a way better chance to succeed at baseball than basketball, and he sure as hell only has a shot at getting paid in that sport (albeit minor league). How many baseball players have the luxury of his height, build, and athleticism?

 

[Fryowa]

My honest opinion is that Iowa puts too much emphasis on recruiting Iowa. I know this will draw some guffaws since I'm an ISU fan... but the simple matter of the fact is that while you could build a great team with just Iowa talent most years, ISU and Iowa have consistently failed to draw that talent. People ragged on Mr. Davis dang near 25 years ago for not landing LaFrentz. With the eggs all in the Iowa preps basket, when Iowa misses on the top guys it leaves them holding the bag in a bad way.

In the 247 database, Iowa has landed two top 100 kids from outside of Iowa since 2003. Tyler Smith and Tyler Cook. Smith bailed after one year and Cook hasn't delivered a tourney yet.

Yes, if Iowa landed all of the big fish in Iowa over the last 25 years, it would probably have a few more second weekend visits in the tourney. However, it didn't happen. I don't think you can expect it to change. My opinion is that Iowa needs better national recruiters at the helm. Or they need to get creative in how they have brought in that talent, and no I'm not talking about paying guys. JC's and transfers need to be on the table for a program trying to get a seat back at the table for programs on the level of ISU and Iowa. Again just my opinion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_Hawkeyes_men's_basketball

If you look at this list of all conference guys at the bottom, since 2000 there haven't been many years Iowa has had multiple all conference guys. The years there are multiple guys, you can see those are the years where Iowa is good and makes the tourney. The simple fact is Iowa needs more good players.

It's a chicken/egg problem. You have to be successful in order to get good players, and you have to get good players to be successful. The only ways to get there if you're not already are pure luck, or unbelievably good coaching. I'll defer for comment on that one.

Regardless of where the recruits come from, Iowa (or any other team) needs to be enticing to recruits by winning games, making the post season, and for elite-level teams like Duke, Kentucky, etc., putting kids in NBA unis. Iowa has none of that.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Rob said in his article that he thinks Fran is going to forget about a PG in this class and go after one in the next class. He needs to go out and try to find a big body down low instead of all these bean poles who can't hold their own in the paint. Scoring is not our problem.

That may be the case but remember Iowa has some flexibility with scholarships here. I could be wrong here but my recollection of this is that we lost Ahmad and Ellingson and only replaced that with giving Connor a scholarship. That means we have an open scholarship, Baer’s scholarship, but we also have the flexibility of Pat walking on if necessary and the high probability that this is Cook’s last year. I think we should take 3 players in the 2019 class. Problem is who are the other two players and what position? It’s probably best available at this point with Keion Brooks (longshot) probably the top target.

 

[Fryowa]

That may be the case but remember Iowa has some flexibility with scholarships here. I could be wrong here but my recollection of this is that we lost Ahmad and Ellingson and only replaced that with giving Connor a scholarship. That means we have an open scholarship, Baer’s scholarship, but we also have the flexibility of Pat walking on if necessary and the high probability that this is Cook’s last year. I think we should take 3 players in the 2019 class. Problem is who are the other two players and what position? It’s probably best available at this point with Keion Brooks (longshot) probably the top target.

I don't think PM would walk on to gain a scholarship. Fran would've done the same thing to Connor if he was inclined to horde scholarships. I think Fran has to see that he real need on this team are forwards who can play D.

 

[InGoodCo]

Almost everyone will disagree with me, but I'm sticking to my story that Fran hasn't been all that concerned about getting a pg in this class to begin with. Connor is his #1 pg, especially after JBo graduates. Things could change depending on Connor's success with the baseball team.

Definitely starting to agree with your take on that

 

[MelroseHawkins]

In this particular instance, it's losing an in-state guy to other B1G schools that concerns me. It's one thing if they go to a blue-blood/ACC school, etc., but when they are going other state schools in the B1G, THAT is worrisome.

Carton's statement for his reason is quite telling. Paraphrase "Wanted to go to a team who had the best chance of winning and being successful at this point". This just shows how a couple crappy seasons strung together can really hurt recruiting. Here Iowa had a 5 star player at their doorstep but was turned down because the team played shitty defense the last couple years. Shows how important it is to have consistency in the program.

I wish Carton could have seen the potential of this Hawkeye team coupled with this new found focus on fundamentals and defense. He could have fit right in to a really good situation. Fun playing style.

I see Iowa getting it done on D and ramping up this next year. They could potentially be one of those teams starting a good run with contending and be in the moment the next few years and have attention being the new kid on the block. That is what I am hoping and feel they could do it. But, Carton made his decision on what has been happening in he recent past and not on what potentially may happen.

 

[NikeHawk21]

I don't think PM would walk on to gain a scholarship. Fran would've done the same thing to Connor if he was inclined to horde scholarships. I think Fran has to see that he real need on this team are forwards who can play D.

Fran did do that with Connor last year. He was a walk-on but was granted a scholarship when Ellingson and Wagner left after the season. Connor walking on allowed us to sign Nunge.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Rob said in his article that he thinks Fran is going to forget about a PG in this class and go after one in the next class. He needs to go out and try to find a big body down low instead of all these bean poles who can't hold their own in the paint. Scoring is not our problem.

Man we are thinking a like. I was going to respond to your other post that if people want to bitch about Fran and his recruiting, they should bitch that he hasn't found that low post defender or a Reggie Evans. Defense, blocks and rebounds can do so much for a team. They need that closer down there. Cripes sake if you have a defender who can hold another teams top scorer who averages 20 pts a game to 12, that is like scoring 8 pts for your team. People need to look at is like that.

This Iowa team needs a Reggie Evans.

 

[MiniMoeHawk]

Carton's statement for his reason is quite telling. Paraphrase "Wanted to go to a team who had the best chance of winning and being successful at this point". This just shows how a couple crappy seasons strung together can really hurt recruiting. Here Iowa had a 5 star player at their doorstep but was turned down because the team played shitty defense the last couple years. Shows how important it is to have consistency in the program.

I wish Carton could have seen the potential of this Hawkeye team coupled with this new found focus on fundamentals and defense. He could have fit right in to a really good situation. Fun playing style.

I see Iowa getting it done on D and ramping up this next year. They could potentially be one of those teams starting a good run with contending and be in the moment the next few years and have attention being the new kid on the block. That is what I am hoping and feel they could do it. But, Carton made his decision on what has been happening in he recent past and not on what potentially may happen.

So Indiana and Ohio state are good teams today? If he wants to play for a good team then he has to go to Michigan. Will be pretty disappointing if he goes to either of the other schools over Iowa.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Man we are thinking a like. I was going to respond to your other post that if people want to bitch about Fran and his recruiting, they should bitch that he hasn't found that low post defender or a Reggie Evans. Defense, blocks and rebounds can do so much for a team. They need that closer down there. Cripes sake if you have a defender who can hold another teams top scorer who averages 20 pts a game to 12, that is like scoring 8 pts for your team. People need to look at is like that.

This Iowa team needs a Reggie Evans.

I don’t disagree that we could certainly use more defensive minded players, both down low but also in the backcourt. For all his faults Woody was actually a good defender down there and maybe something we as fans took for granted as many wanted him benched for the more offensive minded Olaseni. Point being it seems we always want what we don’t have in a way (see we need true PG crowd). I am of the belief that we need to just sign as many good players as we can, however last year also shows the need for a balanced roster as I do think we had some talent.

On the optimistic side I think Nunge is really going to surprise you guys defensively this year. He’s not in the bruiser mold but he’s tall and agile for his size. If Fran plays him at the 4 I think he will block a lot of shots and effect many others, plus with the new weight lifting regimen I expect to see him come in stronger.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I don’t disagree that we could certainly use more defensive minded players, both down low but also in the backcourt. For all his faults Woody was actually a good defender down there and maybe something we as fans took for granted as many wanted him benched for the more offensive minded Olaseni. Point being it seems we always want what we don’t have in a way (see we need true PG crowd). I am of the belief that we need to just sign as many good players as we can, however last year also shows the need for a balanced roster as I do think we had some talent.

On the optimistic side I think Nunge is really going to surprise you guys defensively this year. He’s not in the bruiser mold but he’s tall and agile for his size. If Fran plays him at the 4 I think he will block a lot of shots and effect many others, plus with the new weight lifting regimen I expect to see him come in stronger.

Agree about Woody and I was going to mention him in previous posts. That is the last time Iowa was somewhat formidable on D. That year they beat NC and made a run in the BIG early in the season before falling apart. I think they played D then, and, Woody was a big part of that. They need a physical presence down low. I think Garza will be fine with experience. I also think Cook's going to have a new found focus on D as he knows the NBA scouts are watching his development there and that is what drives him, I feel. He wants the next show and knows that was some of the negatives from evaluating him. I think he'll step that up.

 

[TJHawkeye]

It certainly is upsetting that small schools like Drexel, Weber State, Wichita State, VCU, etc can recruits good enough athletes to be tourney teams and little ole Iowa, a B1G school can't, especially at point guard.

 

[proudhawkfan21]

With zero stats to back this up, here's how i see Fran. He can recruit. I think he uses his resources to bring in good ball players that he feels he can also develop. He recruited length for a while, which was definitely a trend in the nba for sure. Everyone used to want that 7'2" enforcer and two big forwards...yada yada..then it shifted to get 4 guys that are 6'6" to 6'10" that have handles, and are long.

Well, look, he got a few of those kids in a row. Gatens, Marble, White, Uthoff, Jok. But we didnt get 2-4 to all be developed at the same time. Each grew to a point where they led us to the post season, NIT or NCAA but not enough talent surrounds them. I think Fran falls short of success in two very important areas, possibly 3. One, if you recruit the lanky kids, you better get that quick point guard with excellent handles to make it all work fast and efficient. Look at the point guards that weve had. Very few true point guards and often our best two guard is playing point. So now two positions are lacking their true purpose.

Two, our players might improve, but they dont really develop their game to the next level. Granted, some players will themselves and work themselves to get to the next level. I think the list i provided earlier are all kids who took it upon themselves to get better. I dont think they were developed. I think if you looked at Lute's teams or Mr. Davis's teams, kids got noticably better. I think a ton of Fran's players are who they are and dont develop.

Third, we dont play good defense. Basketball is a lot like every other sport in that defense and pitching, or defense and a good ground game or defense and a good center (hockey) can take you to the next level. Our defense is just atrocious lately. Do you remember every game we ever played against Indiana when Bob Knight was coach? It felt like we were lucky to get the ball within 20 feet of the hoop a lot of nights because they slapped the D on every single possession. Tom Davis used defensive pressure/press to turn into easy offense or to disrupt tempo...get them going too fast or slow them down. I see no defensive identity to Fran's system.

Can anyone coach Iowa to a higher level? Absolutely. More than in any other sport save for wrestling. Lute did. Mr. Davis did. You can say all you want about Tom Davis but he had a consistent winning culture and an identity for the program. Even though it was just the one Elite 8 appearance and a couple sweet 16's, we were right there. Usually peaking at the end of the season to make a good effort to get into the postseason and fight hard while there. A few breaks here and there and its the final four in college basketball. There is a ton of talent out there to fill up 12 man rosters. A good teacher can take Iowa to the next level. A great recruiter would be nice, but we can get there with a Jess Settles, Matt Gatens, Andre Woolridge, Dean Oliver and Aaron White.

The good news is, with his boys and their influence and connections, weiskamp and a lucky pickup here and there, the next 4-6 yrs could be very special. But not if the improved talent, and it IS a better level of talent these days coming in, is never developed properly.

 

[proudhawkfan21]

I think my recruiting pitch for Iowa's current state would be as follows:

Son, we need you. You are talented enough to play anywhere. If you play at Iowa, you have the opportunity to be a legend. You can be that kid that people talk about for decades. The one that took us to a big ten championship, a final four, or a national championship. Son, i believe you have the ability to do all of that. You can do that right here at Iowa and make yourself a legend like Nile Kinnick or Ronnie Lester. Sure you can go to Kentucky or a North Carolina and be another name on a long list of great players, but your opportunity here at Iowa is to be the best, the savior, a mythological warrior bringing a championship to your people. Your talent is so great that you are going to go to the NBA after you dominate the Big Ten. But im not interested in simply sending you to a multi million dollar contract in the league. Im interested in making you an immortal for an entire state in that trip to millions. Fame is fleeting, but glory lasts forever.

Or something like that. Appeal to something that we can offer, a unique opportunity. History shows we can go to a final four, an elite eight...with less talent than these recruits bring. Sell the opportunity. We probably still lose out, or maybe one time or two we dont, and we have the kid whose eyes got big at the challenge and whos talent can back it up. You may say im a dreamer, but im not the only one. Lol

 

[Northside Hawk]

His reluctance to recruit transfers, grad transfers, and juco transfers seems to support the premise that he wants Iowa to be a developmental school, much like his football compadre.

And he certainly isn't getting one and done type players.

He developed well with his first recruiting cycle. Marble, White, and Uthoff steadily improved and we're at their best their senior years.

He did not do so well with the next cycle. Last year's upperclassmen, Uhl, Wagner, Ellingson, and Baer, were regressing. Wagner and Ellingson are now gone. Wiescamp's arrival and continued presumed improvement of Nunge signal trouble for Baer.

Nunge and Garza must avoid the sophomore jinx that had plagued so many of Fran's players (May, Basabe, Clemmons, Pemsl). And his junior class must keep developing and improving. Fran, in the media, has repeatedly doubled down on this group. Their collective asses better be able to cash the check their coach's mouth is writing. If this team falls flat after everything Fran has been saying in the off season....