Shaka to Illini

Section136 said:
Uhh, I would say that getting Deron Williams out of Texas was more insturmental in the Illini's success a few years back than getting Dee Brown out of Chicago.
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While I agree that Williams was incredible, Brown was the national Player of the Year. Perhaps not the team's best player when Williams was there, but they don't have that kind of year without Brown, either. That is one of the best guard combos of the past decade.
 
tm3308 said:
While I agree that Williams was incredible, Brown was the national Player of the Year. Perhaps not the team's best player when Williams was there, but they don't have that kind of year without Brown, either. That is one of the best guard combos of the past decade.
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Agreed that they had an incredible backcourt. I would throw Head in there and call it a guard trio.
 
Section136 said:
So we should expect the programs I named to have a tough time filling their coaching vacancies when that day comes then?
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No, but it is a lot easier to be the 2nd coach & not the first. Look at all the quality coaches Alabama ran out of town because they weren't the Bear. Look at Mike Davis at Indiana, he took a team to the championship game, yet he was run out of town because he wasn't Bobby Knight. Notre Dame is still trying to replace Lou Holtz.

Do you think that at anyone of the programs you mentioned would put up with what Davis did at Iowa. Go 14-4, 12-6, 10-8 & 4-14 in conference games in consecutive seasons & still have a job. You're out of a job after the third year.

Only at Iowa would the coach still have a job.
 
DesMoinesHawki said:
He is one of the hot names right now. Every year a coach from a smaller school experiences success in the tourney and the next thing you know everyone wants him to be their next coach. Shaka was a hot name last year and chose to return.

Perfect example of a "hot coach" flaming out: Keno Davis. One year at Drake and then everyone wants him. Going to a big time program is a major jump. You are competing night in and night out against the best (i.e. see Steve Alford; who now has a much easier schedule -- but looks like a coaching guru to those in Lobo territory) ...
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Fair point, but I don't think you can put Smart in the same category as guys who had one great year or one deep run in the tournament. Look at his 3-year record at VCU: 27-9, CBI champions. 28-11, Final Four. 29-7, Round of 32, and 2 points away from another Sweet 16 appearance.

If nothing else, the guy knows how to get it done in single-elimination tournament situations. VCU had a very strong program under Capel and Grant, but before Smart they'd won 1 NCAA tournament game in the previous 25 years. Maybe it's all just crazy luck, but the guy seems to know how to get the most out of his team at the end of the year.
 
tm3308 said:
In a way, yes. They won't get a big name coach from another Power 6 school. They'll have to either take a Power 6 guy with not as much fanfare, or the hot mid-major coach. You don't bring in a Roy Williams to follow Dean Smith.

They won't have trouble getting someone to take their offer. But we can reasonably expect them to get less than satisfactory results with who they do hire.
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So I guess Bill Self going to Kansas immediately after Roy left takes care of this theory. Either that or it pretty much proves that Illinois is not an elite job.
 
ColumbusHawk said:
No, but it is a lot easier to be the 2nd coach & not the first. Look at all the quality coaches Alabama ran out of town because they weren't the Bear. Look at Mike Davis at Indiana, he took a team to the championship game, yet he was run out of town because he wasn't Bobby Knight. Notre Dame is still trying to replace Lou Holtz.

Do you think that at anyone of the programs you mentioned would put up with what Davis did at Iowa. Go 14-4, 12-6, 10-8 & 4-14 in conference games in consecutive seasons & still have a job. You're out of a job after the third year.

Only at Iowa would the coach still have a job.
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I would think that Todd Lickliter would disagree with you.
 
tm3308 said:
Section136 said:
Pretty misleading thread title. I think Shaka and his wife are happy at VCU and stay put. Some Top 5 jobs in the country could be opening up in the next few years in that part of the country and I think he would jump at those. Illini fans overrate the prestige their program has.
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Illinois may not be a top 5 program, historically, but it is top 10. According to Sagarin, Illinois is the #6 program all time. That's a sleeping giant.
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So is Notre Dame in football................
 
I have read through all of these comments and it made me think in this perspective....
A lot of people are talking about Illinois basketball like they are just above garbage. I don't know about most of you but I would love for Iowa basketball to be where Illinois basketball has been the past 3-5 years. I know Iowa is on the rise but its just one more reminder of just how far down Iowa basketball is (was).
 
ColumbusHawk said:
Section136 said:
So we should expect the programs I named to have a tough time filling their coaching vacancies when that day comes then?
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No, but it is a lot easier to be the 2nd coach & not the first. Look at all the quality coaches Alabama ran out of town because they weren't the Bear. Look at Mike Davis at Indiana, he took a team to the championship game, yet he was run out of town because he wasn't Bobby Knight. Notre Dame is still trying to replace Lou Holtz. Do you think that at anyone of the programs you mentioned would put up with what Davis did at Iowa. Go 14-4, 12-6, 10-8 & 4-14 in conference games in consecutive seasons & still have a job. You're out of a job after the third year. Only at Iowa would the coach still have a job.
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Did Mr. Davis burn you with cigarettes when you were young?

You seem hard pressed to interject your rhetoric when it comes to him and his stats.
 
Section136 said:
So I guess Bill Self going to Kansas immediately after Roy left takes care of this theory. Either that or it pretty much proves that Illinois is not an elite job.
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Self hasn't been above criticism in his time in Lawrence. Kansas has a title, but they've also bowed out early in MAJOR upsets 4-5 times (and very nearly did it again this past weekend) from the Dance. Say what you will about Roy not getting over the hump for the title at Kansas, but he wasn't losing to Bucknell and UNI.
 
Sorry if its been posted, but his contract with VCU is interesting.

Smart has an $800,000 buyout if he leaves VCU for another college head coaching job before April 30. If he leaves for another school, his contract says that school would have to play a home-and-home series with VCU or pay a $250,000 buyout.
 
H8IAST8 said:
Sorry if its been posted, but his contract with VCU is interesting.

Smart has an $800,000 buyout if he leaves VCU for another college head coaching job before April 30. If he leaves for another school, his contract says that school would have to play a home-and-home series with VCU or pay a $250,000 buyout.
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Illini may want to try and stall until April 30th. I read that they owe Weber 3.6 million buyout paid over 3 years. :D
 
olivecourt said:
Fair point, but I don't think you can put Smart in the same category as guys who had one great year or one deep run in the tournament. Look at his 3-year record at VCU: 27-9, CBI champions. 28-11, Final Four. 29-7, Round of 32, and 2 points away from another Sweet 16 appearance.

If nothing else, the guy knows how to get it done in single-elimination tournament situations. VCU had a very strong program under Capel and Grant, but before Smart they'd won 1 NCAA tournament game in the previous 25 years. Maybe it's all just crazy luck, but the guy seems to know how to get the most out of his team at the end of the year.
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You are correct and I should have expanded on my thought. I completely understand and agree Shaka has accomplished more than Keeno did. My entire point simply being that all it takes is a deep run in the tourney and all of a sudden you are the next best thing since sliced bread.
 
tm3308 said:
Self hasn't been above criticism in his time in Lawrence. Kansas has a title, but they've also bowed out early in MAJOR upsets 4-5 times (and very nearly did it again this past weekend) from the Dance. Say what you will about Roy not getting over the hump for the title at Kansas, but he wasn't losing to Bucknell and UNI.
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In Self's 8 seasons at KU (not counting this year), he has made 3 Elite 8's, 1 Sweet 16 and 1 Final Four with a National Championship. So half the seasons he has coached have resulted in KU being in the Elite 8 or better. I would take that over Roy's inability to win the big one at KU every day of the week.

And what does Self's resume have anything to do with the argument I made refuting your points earlier?
 
Section136 said:
In Self's 8 seasons at KU (not counting this year), he has made 3 Elite 8's, 1 Sweet 16 and 1 Final Four with a National Championship. So half the seasons he has coached have resulted in KU being in the Elite 8 or better. I would take that over Roy's inability to win the big one at KU every day of the week.

And what does Self's resume have anything to do with the argument I made refuting your points earlier?
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It took him awhile to live up to what Williams left behind. Made a couple Elite Eights, but then also lost to Bucknell and Bradley in the first round in his first three years. There was a lot of heat on him at that point. The decision to stick with him obviously has paid off, but there was quite a bit of unrest in his first 3 years.
 
They said locally that unless something drastic changes, Smart will be staying at VCU (ESPN1000 here in Chicago)
 
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