Rudock and Michigan

PCHawk said:
This theory quit making sense the second Rudock left. You don't name your backup the starter to keep him from leaving if that decision will cause the guy you want to be the starter to leave. If you think they are equal, you might give in to the threat in order to keep them both, but there is no point in giving in if you're going to lose one either way. Kirk was either forced to make the change by higher ups, or he finally saw the light.
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That doesn't really change anything. Beathard was still leaving unless he was named the starter. Whether that was enough to force Ferentz's hand (and maybe he didn't think Rudock would leave?), or if it took the help of some boosters/higher ups, Beathard was ready to quit on the team, too. I just don't think it's fair for people to roast Rudock for being a quitter, when his replacement (who manages to skate by as the beacon for competition) very publicly threatened to quit if he wasn't the starter.
 
tm3308 said:
That doesn't really change anything. Beathard was still leaving unless he was named the starter. Whether that was enough to force Ferentz's hand (and maybe he didn't think Rudock would leave?), or if it took the help of some boosters/higher ups, Beathard was ready to quit on the team, too. I just don't think it's fair for people to roast Rudock for being a quitter, when his replacement (who manages to skate by as the beacon for competition) very publicly threatened to quit if he wasn't the starter.
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The difference is Beathard had already waited long enough. Rudock had more than a fair shot at making himself the solidified starter. He couldn't get it done well enough to keep his spot and Beathard kept getting the shaft. He was patient and professional about it. At that point in his career I wouldn't have blamed him one bit for transferring if he was told it would be a competition yet again.

Let me be clear... I don't have any hard feelings against Jake for transferring either. He's going to be a graduate student and he wasn't going to be the starter. If I were in his shoes I might have made the same decision if I still had the desire to play QB for one more year. However, I will say that it is a little disappointing that Jake left as soon as he was asked to be second string when CJ politely waited his turn for quite some time. I get it, but it is kind of disappointing. He could have held his head high and said "You know what? I had my chance and I didn't get it done. CJ supported me while I was the starter and I plan on doing the same for him. He deserves his chance.". I know that is wishful thinking in college athletics today, but it would have been an honorable thing to do.
 
DP5555 said:
The difference is Beathard had already waited long enough. Rudock had more than a fair shot at making himself the solidified starter. He couldn't get it done well enough to keep his spot and Beathard kept getting the shaft. He was patient and professional about it. At that point in his career I wouldn't have blamed him one bit for transferring if he was told it would be a competition yet again.

Let me be clear... I don't have any hard feelings against Jake for transferring either. He's going to be a graduate student and he wasn't going to be the starter. If I were in his shoes I might have made the same decision if I still had the desire to play QB for one more year. However, I will say that it is a little disappointing that Jake left as soon as he was asked to be second string when CJ politely waited his turn for quite some time. I get it, but it is kind of disappointing. He could have held his head high and said "You know what? I had my chance and I didn't get it done. CJ supported me while I was the starter and I plan on doing the same for him. He deserves his chance.". I know that is wishful thinking in college athletics today, but it would have been an honorable thing to do.
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I don't care how long Beathard waited. There's nothing professional about what he did. He was a kid who had picked the ball up and was about to start walking home and only stopped because he got his way; he did nothing to win the job on the field. He showed flashes, but he didn't win the job with his on-field performance; he won it because of politics. There's no other way to spin that. If Rudock is a quitter, Beathard is no better. I'm glad Beathard was named the starter, but I'm tired of people treating him and Rudock so differently.

And if it were boosters/higher ups who forced the change, who's to say Ferentz didn't tell that to Rudock just to let him know that there was no way (barring injury) that he'd play next year? If I were coaching and felt like I was being forced to screw a good kid out of a job that I didn't feel like he did anything to lose, I might do him the courtesy of telling him that sticking around would be a complete waste of his time. There is no competition, I can't put you back in there, so if you want to move on, I won't stop you (and even let you continue using our facilities until you figure things out).
 
CJ led us to victory over Pitt. We lose that game if Jake is still there.

Next week he starts and wins against Purdue, his first road start. Yes he was shaky early but the offense just opened up so much more (despite 7-8 dropped passes including a TD)

and while this is going on, KF can't even compliment CJ. He bags on his comeback against Pitt by stating he practiced like crap. And after Purdue he couldn't say CJs name without mentioning Jake

we then get told Jake is the starter. There will be open competition despite all reports coming out of practice that Jake took all the snaps.

KF created this mess and I don't blame CJ at all.

And for those who state he did nothing to win the job, even if that's so, Jake pooped the bed against the worst ISU team in recent history, maybe one of the worst D1 schools in a long time. At home. Don't care who your backup is, the starter should have been benched after that game alone.
 
tm3308 said:
I don't care how long Beathard waited. There's nothing professional about what he did. He was a kid who had picked the ball up and was about to start walking home and only stopped because he got his way; he did nothing to win the job on the field. He showed flashes, but he didn't win the job with his on-field performance; he won it because of politics. There's no other way to spin that. If Rudock is a quitter, Beathard is no better. I'm glad Beathard was named the starter, but I'm tired of people treating him and Rudock so differently.

And if it were boosters/higher ups who forced the change, who's to say Ferentz didn't tell that to Rudock just to let him know that there was no way (barring injury) that he'd play next year? If I were coaching and felt like I was being forced to screw a good kid out of a job that I didn't feel like he did anything to lose, I might do him the courtesy of telling him that sticking around would be a complete waste of his time. There is no competition, I can't put you back in there, so if you want to move on, I won't stop you (and even let you continue using our facilities until you figure things out).
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You have it 180 degrees wrong TM. JR was playing last year because of "politics". JR should have lost his job after losing to ISU, and getting down to Pitt, and watching CJ bring the team back from to win from it's largest deficit under KF. The only reason he kept his job at that point was the "politics of KF".
If KF knows he is going to lose one of his QB's why would he pick the less talented one? If you really think about it, this really shows just how big of a mistake that KF made last year, and that the "politics" being played FAVORED JR. I mean when you give a coach the ultimate decision to make about only getting one QB, and he picks the guy who wasn't starting before, doesn't that just scream that KF was really making the wrong decision the entire season?

I do agree though that neither one of them is a quitter. They both just want to play, and at QB you are either the man or you are not. JR has one year left to play D1 college football, and CJ has 2, and of course they want to go somewhere so that can play some football.
 
deanvogs said:
You have it 180 degrees wrong TM. JR was playing last year because of "politics". JR should have lost his job after losing to ISU, and getting down to Pitt, and watching CJ bring the team back from to win from it's largest deficit under KF. The only reason he kept his job at that point was the "politics of KF".
If KF knows he is going to lose one of his QB's why would he pick the less talented one? If you really think about it, this really shows just how big of a mistake that KF made last year, and that the "politics" being played FAVORED JR. I mean when you give a coach the ultimate decision to make about only getting one QB, and he picks the guy who wasn't starting before, doesn't that just scream that KF was really making the wrong decision the entire season?

I do agree though that neither one of them is a quitter. They both just want to play, and at QB you are either the man or you are not. JR has one year left to play D1 college football, and CJ has 2, and of course they want to go somewhere so that can play some football.
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Or that he was getting serious pressure to make that choice, regardless of whether he thought it was the right one. And given the way he's talked about CJ and Jake this spring, that certainly sounds like it's the case. Beathard wasn't Ferentz's choice last fall, and I don't think he's Ferentz's choice now, either. Ferentz got backed into a corner; I think it will work out better with CJB under center, but I don't think Ferentz saw the light or anything like that.
 
tm3308 said:
Or that he was getting serious pressure to make that choice, regardless of whether he thought it was the right one. And given the way he's talked about CJ and Jake this spring, that certainly sounds like it's the case. Beathard wasn't Ferentz's choice last fall, and I don't think he's Ferentz's choice now, either. Ferentz got backed into a corner; I think it will work out better with CJB under center, but I don't think Ferentz saw the light or anything like that.
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The only think CJ made KF do is actually make the choice he knew was right the entire time. If you really think KF is going to let some kid, or some other coach make this decision, you are crazy. What is this "leverage" that others have over KF that people keep talking about? He either gets fired or he doesn't, there is no leverage play against KF that could possibly be made.
 
After what happened last season with the QB fiasco at Iowa, it's clear that KF can't.. shouldn't.. be making the starting QB call. Give that call to someone more qualified like GD, for example.
 
HomerChampless said:
After what happened last season with the QB fiasco at Iowa, it's clear that KF can't.. shouldn't.. be making the starting QB call. Give that call to someone more qualified like GD, for example.
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You're joking, right? GD is not only the least qualified OC in college football, he is the most disloyal.
 
When a kid decides he wants to leave over playing time, he has 2 choices. He can just transfer, or he can figure out if playing more is an option first, then go from there. He didn't take his ball and go home. He got asked a question and answered it honestly.

The only difference here is most players who ask for more playing time aren't going to get it so they end up leaving anyway. CJ is getting the time he asked for so he's staying.
 
deanvogs said:
The only think CJ made KF do is actually make the choice he knew was right the entire time. If you really think KF is going to let some kid, or some other coach make this decision, you are crazy. What is this "leverage" that others have over KF that people keep talking about? He either gets fired or he doesn't, there is no leverage play against KF that could possibly be made.
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This is exactly right. You think if Sokol gave an ultimatum he would have been starting last year? Beathard should have been starting last year and everyone who mattered except Kirk thought the same. That's why CJ is still here. He would be starting this year reguardless of his dad's interview.
 
I'm also of the opinion that any time you decide to leave your team because you would rather play for another team, you quit on your team. It doesn't matter if it's mid year, at the end of the year, or if you're a 5th year graduate transfer. It's all the same in my eyes.
 
tm3308 said:
That doesn't really change anything. Beathard was still leaving unless he was named the starter. Whether that was enough to force Ferentz's hand (and maybe he didn't think Rudock would leave?), or if it took the help of some boosters/higher ups, Beathard was ready to quit on the team, too. I just don't think it's fair for people to roast Rudock for being a quitter, when his replacement (who manages to skate by as the beacon for competition) very publicly threatened to quit if he wasn't the starter.
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You're right that it doesn't change that CJ was leaving if he wasn't named the starter, but that's not what my post was arguing. You said that the only reason CJ was starting is because of the interview. A lot of other people agree with you. That arguement could be put to rest as soon as Kirk let Rudock leave.
 
PCHawk said:
When a kid decides he wants to leave over playing time, he has 2 choices. He can just transfer, or he can figure out if playing more is an option first, then go from there. He didn't take his ball and go home. He got asked a question and answered it honestly.

The only difference here is most players who ask for more playing time aren't going to get it so they end up leaving anyway. CJ is getting the time he asked for so he's staying.
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Exactly. I don't see how anyone can look at what CJ did as "taking his ball and going home". The kid waited his turn and AT THE VERY LEAST he proved with his on the field play that he deserved a chance. Combine that with Jake's on the field play during the ISU game and he absolutely deserved a chance. He was told that it would be an open competition and it was anything but. That job was Jake's and CJ was strung along the entire season. I don't think it was unprofessional at all what CJ (or his Dad) did by making those comments public. He was just being honest. If that's what it took to get Ferentz to actually make a decision then good for him. At that point I believe most people would have done the exact same thing. He deserved a chance to be the guy and he had put in the time and effort required to earn it.

I don't think either Jake or CJ are quitters. I just think Jake could have given CJ the same courtesy he received from him by respecting Kirk's decision and supporting CJ as his backup.
 
PCHawk said:
I'm also of the opinion that any time you decide to leave your team because you would rather play for another team, you quit on your team. It doesn't matter if it's mid year, at the end of the year, or if you're a 5th year graduate transfer. It's all the same in my eyes.
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I disagree on the quitting thing. I'm sure if you asked JR what he wanted he would have said he wants to stay at Iowa and start at QB. CJ also felt the same way. Both of their second choices were to leave and play elsewhere. Sometimes in life your prefered option is no longer available, and I don't think it makes you a quitter to go with the second option.
 
DP5555 said:
Exactly. I don't see how anyone can look at what CJ did as "taking his ball and going home". The kid waited his turn and AT THE VERY LEAST he proved with his on the field play that he deserved a chance. Combine that with Jake's on the field play during the ISU game and he absolutely deserved a chance. He was told that it would be an open competition and it was anything but. That job was Jake's and CJ was strung along the entire season. I don't think it was unprofessional at all what CJ (or his Dad) did by making those comments public. 1.) He was just being honest. If that's what it took to get Ferentz to actually make a decision then good for him. At that point I believe most people would have done the exact same thing. He deserved a chance to be the guy and he had put in the time and effort required to earn it.

I don't think either Jake or CJ are quitters. 2.) I just think Jake could have given CJ the same courtesy he received from him by respecting Kirk's decision and supporting CJ as his backup.
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1.) And I'm being honest if I tell a customer who comes into a restaurant 10 minutes before close and expects to be served a steak that he's a ****. That doesn't mean I'm being professional.

2.) It wouldn't have been the "same" courtesy; Rudock has one year to play, Beathard has two. I don't think it's fair to expect a kid to sacrifice his last chance to play football simply out of courtesy. Now if they were both seniors, this would have a little more credibility. But they aren't, and Jake's sacrifice would be greater than Beathard's was.
 
deanvogs said:
I disagree on the quitting thing. I'm sure if you asked JR what he wanted he would have said he wants to stay at Iowa and start at QB. CJ also felt the same way. Both of their second choices were to leave and play elsewhere. Sometimes in life your prefered option is no longer available, and I don't think it makes you a quitter to go with the second option.
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I actually didn't word my post very well. What i meant was you're either a quitter or you're not if you leave your team for greener pastures. It doesn't really matter when you leave. I believe that it's good to instill the "don't quit on your team" mindset. But when push comes to shove, you have to do what's best for you.
 
I kinda hope JR starts for Michigan so that the media can make a big deal about a QB starting for school in one year and another school in the same conference in another year. That just seems so strange. However, my Ohio State friends will have a field day making fun of Michigan starting a QB who could no longer start on a weak Iowa team.
 
tm3308 said:
Beathard is only the starter because of his "play me or I'm gone" ultimatum. You can argue that Rudock has no competitive fire if you want (although I'd disagree), but Beathard isn't any different than Rudock in that regard.
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Although, by most appearances as well as hearsay, CJB appears to be different in the locker room and in the huddle! Which does make a big difference in team cohesiveness.
 
ColoradoHAWKEYE said:
Although, by most appearances as well as hearsay, CJB appears to be different in the locker room and in the huddle! Which does make a big difference in team cohesiveness.
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Hopefully it is a good thing and the hawks will play with some swagger. There were times last year you couldn't even tell they had a pulse.
 
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