PSU: NCAA poised to drop hammer hard

I'm the biggest death penalty for Pedo State advocate on this board, but a 5 year bowl ban would actually do them more harm. What kid is gonna go there?

Regardless, I don't look forward to that Hell Circus of Child Rape showing up in IC on the 20th of October.
 
Foval21 said:
i understand that it was an institution problem. but who that made that mistake is still there? this should facilitate change...not be a situation of punishing those that had nothing to do with it. losing half their football proceeds (at least) and the bad publicity will punish them. and the money can be used to facilitate help and change. those scholarships lost wont help the problem. a bowl ban wont help the problem. did the smu death penalty stop boosters from paying players? this is a different situation and should be looked at as such. take their money and use it to educate and help and facilitate the change that could prevent this from happening again.
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The change that needs to be facilitated is that people need to realize that college football is not the most important thing in the world. Universities need to realize that they can't invest their entire identity into one athletic coach. High school kids need to realize that they'd better think about more than football when they choose a university. And every coach and administrator in the country needs to realize that they cannot take the place of the police-- that sometimes the best thing to do when something goes wrong is to report it to the authorities and get the hell out of the way.

If some football players at Penn State either have to transfer or accept that they are at a lower-profile program than they intended, they will survive. It is not the end of the world. The NCAA is realigning the priorities at Penn State. It's pretty obvious when you read their fan forums, look at the knee-jerk defenses of Paterno, etc., that that is necessary. (And by the way, I'm not one who thinks Iowa fans would be any more rational in a similar situation).

And the wider outcome of this punishment, whatever it is, should be to realign the priorities of all college sports fans. College sports can be amazing fun and an awesome experience for the athletes (they were for me and for members of my family). But every program has to start thinking about what happens when the football/basketball coach has the same amount of power (or even more) than the university president and board of regents. Even when you have a great coach and great person (which of course Paterno was), it's just too much power to invest in someone whose expertise is x's and o's, not the Cleary Act, human resources, compliance, etc. It may take some pretty severe penalties to get other universities to take notice. If that's what it takes, that's what it takes.
 
olivecourt said:
Foval21 said:
i understand that it was an institution problem. but who that made that mistake is still there? this should facilitate change...not be a situation of punishing those that had nothing to do with it. losing half their football proceeds (at least) and the bad publicity will punish them. and the money can be used to facilitate help and change. those scholarships lost wont help the problem. a bowl ban wont help the problem. did the smu death penalty stop boosters from paying players? this is a different situation and should be looked at as such. take their money and use it to educate and help and facilitate the change that could prevent this from happening again.
Click to expand...
The change that needs to be facilitated is that people need to realize that college football is not the most important thing in the world. Universities need to realize that they can't invest their entire identity into one athletic coach. High school kids need to realize that they'd better think about more than football when they choose a university. And every coach and administrator in the country needs to realize that they cannot take the place of the police-- that sometimes the best thing to do when something goes wrong is to report it to the authorities and get the hell out of the way.If some football players at Penn State either have to transfer or accept that they are at a lower-profile program than they intended, they will survive. It is not the end of the world. The NCAA is realigning the priorities at Penn State. It's pretty obvious when you read their fan forums, look at the knee-jerk defenses of Paterno, etc., that that is necessary. (And by the way, I'm not one who thinks Iowa fans would be any more rational in a similar situation). And the wider outcome of this punishment, whatever it is, should be to realign the priorities of all college sports fans. College sports can be amazing fun and an awesome experience for the athletes (they were for me and for members of my family). But every program has to start thinking about what happens when the football/basketball coach has the same amount of power (or even more) than the university president and board of regents. Even when you have a great coach and great person (which of course Paterno was), it's just too much power to invest in someone whose expertise is x's and o's, not the Cleary Act, human resources, compliance, etc. It may take some pretty severe penalties to get other universities to take notice. If that's what it takes, that's what it takes.
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tell me how scholarship losses and bowl bans will change what you want changed...it did work in the smu situation which was a football problem. this is a morality problem. using proceeds of the football program to educate and help child abuse charities could help what i am looking at.

i have another thought the psu players and coaches and administration should work with and make psa's about child abuse and the charities. instead of destroying the school and program use them to get a message out. i am not saying they should be overlooked and not punished...i am saying to make sure the punishment can help make a difference. i dont see a bowl ban and scholarship losses as changing too much other than hurting psu athletics and schooling and possibly getting them kicked out of the b1g.
 
Foval21 said:
tell me how scholarship losses and bowl bans will change what you want changed...it did work in the smu situation which was a football problem. this is a morality problem. using proceeds of the football program to educate and help child abuse charities could help what i am looking at.

i have another thought the psu players and coaches and administration should work with and make psa's about child abuse and the charities. instead of destroying the school and program use them to get a message out. i am not saying they should be overlooked and not punished...i am saying to make sure the punishment can help make a difference. i dont see a bowl ban and scholarship losses as changing too much other than hurting psu athletics and schooling and possibly getting them kicked out of the b1g.
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I see where you're coming from, and I don't want to get into a contentious argument here, because obviously the intentions you're discussing are noble. But a few points:

1. There are two morality problems, as you put it. One is Sandusky's actions, which can only be described as evil. I don't see how greater education or awareness is going to stop someone like Sandusky from doing what he did. It is not a problem that money will alleviate. To the extent that awareness needs to be raised that anyone can be pedophile, even if they are a trusted member of the community, that awareness has already been raised by the scandal itself.

2. The second morality problem is the one in which the Penn State president and JoePa put the well-being and reputation of the football program above the need to investigate Sandusky's actions. In other words, the morality problem was a football problem. So to me the obvious way to address it is to put the football program down a couple of pegs-- to help the Penn State community see that football is not the most important thing in the world, and thereby to send notice to other universities-- if you think you can cover up wrongdoing in order to protect your football program, the penalty will far, far outweigh whatever it was you were trying to cover up.

3. Sure, you could have the Penn State coaches, etc. tape PSAs for child sexual abuse prevention. I'm sure many of them will anyway. But think about this-- you see a 30-second PSA about child sexual abuse right before a 3-hour game that basically amounts to a glorification/celebration of Penn State football, which will always, always be closely tied to Joe Patero. Which message do you think gets communicated louder and more effectively-- that suspicions of child abuse need to be reported no matter who the perpetrator is, or that football is the greatest/best/most important thing in the world and is not going to be derailed just because a bunch of kids were raped and a university deliberately looked the other way?

4. If the penalty was merely financial-- donate your proceeds to charities, etc., it would send the message that the problem was just one evil person, rather than a system that privileged football over everything else. The system at Penn State-- where one man dominates the entire culture and operations of the university-- is what needs to be changed.
 
No matter what happens, the kids are the losers in this whole ordeal! Now the players are going to be losers as well and all because of one very sick individual and a group of superiors (Including Paterno).

Just a very sad situation...
 
treychase said:
So this should be the same 10 for one additional yr?

Sorry, I disagree as much as humanly possible on this Jon.
30 or 40 a SEASON I can get behind.

You speak that this 10 scholly reduction would hurt PSU.
How did it hurt preseason #1 USC?

LOL
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30 or 40 scholarships a year is ridiculous. You realize they would have to send players, already on the team, packing just to meet that requirement? It's one thing to indirectly punish players (bowl bans, etc.). But forcing a school to cut players who did nothing wrong would be over the line, especially when there are other avenues to exact punishment.
 
TheNebraskaHawk said:
No matter what happens, the kids are the losers in this whole ordeal! Now the players are going to be losers as well and all because of one very sick individual and a group of superiors (Including Paterno).

Just a very sad situation...
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The players on Penn State's team will all be fine no matter what the penalties are. So will Penn State fans, local businesses, journalists, etc. They might even realize how unimportant football actually is. Perspective, please.
 
Wow, some dude on ESPN news just gave his editorial and said anything less than the death penalty is unacceptable.
 
Vacate all wins from 1998??

Howard Eskin ‏@howardeskin

No one knows yet for sure but I'm told by #psu official one of the #NCAA sanctions could be taking the wins away from joe pa from 1998 on
Retweeted by Steve Greenberg
 
This no TV thing is stupid.
I can't imagine the 8 B1G teams that play PSU the next few years are going to be real happy about that.

It makes far more sense to shut PSU down and go back to an 11 team league.
 
treychase said:
This no TV thing is stupid.
I can't imagine the 8 B1G teams that play PSU the next few years are going to be real happy about that.

It makes far more sense to shut PSU down and go back to an 11 team league.
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The B1G could always tell PSU to flip it with respect to football and say they could seek reinstatement in two years after they show they have fixed their issues.
 
We do not know for sure what will be announced tomorrow. "Sources" say that the "death penalty" is off of the table, but the penalties will be "unprecedented" and "severe," so much so that it may act as a defacto death penalty.

I hope the penalties are indeed "unprecedented" and "severe," and that it sends a strong and clear message to every athletics department around the country, but until I see exactly what punishment is handed out, I am skeptical that anything short of the "death penalty" will suffice.

One of the main culprits in this sorry episode has been the crazy, irrational fan who puts unrealistic expectations and extremely skewed importance on their intercollegiate football team. It was said fan who created and fed the atmosphere which allowed the Penn State leaders to justify their actions. If Penn State still gets to play football on Saturdays this fall, no matter how much they have been weakened, said fan still has an outlet for his extreme and skewed world view and may still not be forced to reassess his/her priorities.

Maybe the penalties handed down will be as "unprecedented" and "severe" as they are leading us to believe. I don't know. We will have to wait to see. In my book, though, anything less than forcing Penn State nation to sit out a year (or TWO!) and find other ways to entertain themselves on Saturdays in the Fall will miss the mark and be inadequate.
 
I'm reading how some former NCAA chair says the NCAA shouldn't levy penalties on criminal activity and cited the murder of a Virginia lacrosse player as a precedent the NCAA set by not acting. However, this is different because Penn State covered this up, at least in part, to try and avoid any hit to the reputation of their football program and in turn this allowed them to recruit at the same level as they had always done. This in my mind does fall right under the jurisdiction of the NCAA to keep a level playing field. I applaud the NCAA for taking such a bold stance.
 
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