TheIowaHawkGuy
Well-Known Member
This is what concerns me. Fran hasn't done a very good job of this.
Possible Transfer: Cole Huff from Nevada
- Thread starter CRHawk2002
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This is what concerns me. Fran hasn't done a very good job of this.
GoHawks24
Well-Known Member
Gesell, Woodbury, Uhl, Dickerson, and Ellingson say hello.
So many posters with crystal balls in this thread that already know what's going to happen btw, apparently. Where do you guys get those? I want one.
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tm3308
Well-Known Member
That explains why Huff is visiting next week, right?
Tmoney12
Well-Known Member
A few thoughts on this:
1. It;s hard to tell year to year improvement when the previous season cratered into disaster.
2. Barely making the NIT and barely making the NCAA's are not recruiting advantages.
3. Finishing in the top three isn't really a step in the right direction. Fact remains, Fran has not pulled in a top 150 recruit that wasn't from (or barely from) Iowa.
4. 20 wins and finish 6th in the conference aren't notable achievements. 100 of the 350 D1 teams, and 6 of the 12 B1G teams had 20+ wins last year.
Fran has recruited some really good out of state players. The fact that they weren't listed in the top 150 out of high school quits mattering once they prove themselves in college.
Tmoney12
Well-Known Member
Even if you want to call Marble a "Fran recruit" (He committed to Lick), the evidence doesn't support your assertion. Marble has been an all B1G player a few times. Besides that, the only post season honors for Fran recruits have been White's 3rd team all B1G in 2013.
The fact that we also haven't finished higher than 6th in the conference with zero tournament success kind of demonstrates that building a program on unheralded recruits does not bring great success.
He built a great team this year. It just unfortunately fell apart. Wisconsin doesn't get a lot of highly ranked players and they have had great years.
Obviously recruiting is important but using some random number like 150 as a cutoff point to show recruiting ability is pretty dumb. Especially when there is pretty much no difference between the 150th ranked player and the 250th ranked player.
You have to remember that evaluating players is a skill and some people are better at it than others. I'm of the opinion that Fran is better at it than most. Hopefully I'm right.
Obviously recruiting is important but using some random number like 150 as a cutoff point to show recruiting ability is pretty dumb. Especially when there is pretty much no difference between the 150th ranked player and the 250th ranked player.
You have to remember that evaluating players is a skill and some people are better at it than others. I'm of the opinion that Fran is better at it than most. Hopefully I'm right.
Tmoney12
Well-Known Member
Before I start, I am going to remind you that you are not arguing with me, but you're arguing with actual results. Please keep this in mind during your response.
First off, Iowa was not a good team last year. They were an average team last year. Great teams don't collapse. Average teams collapse.
Wisconsin does not get many super high rated recruits, but they win. Iowa does not get many high-ranked recruits, and they don't win nearly as much. The obvious implication is that Bo Ryan is a much better talent evaluator than Fran.
Recruiting rankings can be misleading, but there is definitely a correlation between high ranked recruits and success on the court. Iowa does not get many high-ranked recruits, but they also have not had very much success on the court, as evidenced by their middle-of-the-pack finishes in the B1G and lack of tournament success.
There is absolutely no evidence that Fran is better at locating and gathering under-valued recruits. Of the 16 players recruited by Fran to Iowa (including the two already committed when he came aboard), only two of them have made an All B1G post-season team (Marble 3rd team 2013 and 1st team 2014; White 3rd team 2013).
Now, to conclude, I don't want to be accused of "hating on Fran" or anything. Everything I have posted is 100% true. I only write it because it is annoying watching people repeat a narrative that is obviously untrue. I do believe that Coach Fran will have even better success at Iowa, but I believe it a lot less than I did 6 months ago.
I disagree on the statement that great teams don't fall apart. We didn't fluke our way to a top 10 ranking, we played like we deserved it. And the reason I brought up Wisconsin is because you said that you can't win without top 150 recruits. If you would have said Fran needs them to win I would have never brought them up.
Tmoney12
Well-Known Member
Great teams don't fall apart. Our top 10 ranking was a fluke. We deserved losing a play-in game, which is precisely what we got.
Also, please show me where I said you can't win without top 150 recruits? I never said that. What I said, is that Fran can't get top 150 recruits. Fran also can't win anything. Are those two things related?
Yes. Yes they are.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
Iowa has four top 150 recruits on their roster for next year but don't let the facts get in the way of your false narrative.
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
We lost in overtime to a Sweet 16 team. Yeah, that really was shameful. We were clearly in over our heads and didn't belong.
Iowa only beat 2 top 25 teams all year. How in the world is that top 10 worthy? At no point were they ever top 10 worthy.
ISU had 8 top 25 wins, and they are barely top 10 worthy.
Only a clown gets involved in a discussion about an Iowa recruit. Go home.
Beating 2 top 25 teams all year is not top 10 worthy obviously. What they did up to the point of where they were ranked in the top 10 was top 10 worthy.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
I don't know what ISU fan's obsession with this is. Iowa was ranked what they deserved at the time. Much like Kentucky being #1, then dropping out of the rankings, much like Wisconsin and OSU being top 5, then falling either out of the rankings, or to the 20-25 spots. It is a snapshot in time is all rankings are in Dec., they don't mean jack or squat come March. Yet they were what they were.
Yep. There was a stretch of time where Wisconsin looked worse than Iowa did at the end of the season. It's not like Wisconsin was a great team, then a horrible talentless team, then a great team again. Momentum is a powerful thing in basketball.
Yep. There was a stretch of time where Wisconsin looked worse than Iowa did at the end of the season. It's not like Wisconsin was a great team, then a horrible talentless team, then a great team again. Momentum is a powerful thing in basketball.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Is a team as good as their best stretch, or as bad as their worst? Wisconsin is the perfect example. Da Vadgers having a terrible 20 day stretch in which they lost 5 of 6 games including jNW at home. Iowa had a terrible 19 day stretch in which they lost 6 of 7. Unfortunately Iowa didn't right the ship in the NCAA tourney game, and lost to Tennessee, whereas Wisconsin's meltdown came in Jan and they righted the ship.
