Perception and reality

[Luftgekuehlt67]

Kind of feels like Franuary in March. March Madness indeed.

I have been reading some Kirk and Fran comparisons on here and other boards. One thing I will give Kirk though, he has conference titles to his name and a New Years 6 win equivalent (Orange Bowl) and other other nice New Years Day wins (LSU).

Fran has zero top end accomplishments, but has a commendable rebuilding job (actually several) to his name. I still maintain his best coaching job was his first few years here. That was steady progression, but after that sputtered, rebounded, sputtered, stalled, rebounded to perhaps great heights............then Lucy pulled that football away again.

Our perpetual reality.

I did the math - under Kirk, Iowa has outpaced their historical win percentage by a wide margin. You can love him, hate him, think he handles the program like an ass, etc but, objectively, in terms of W/L, he runs the program at a significantly higher performance level than what Iowa has historically enjoyed.

Fran is definitely above Iowa's historical program W/L percentage, but not as much as Kirk is. I think as long as he continues running a clean program, you keep Fran around. Iowa could (and routinely has) done much, much worse.

 

[Northside Hawk]

This game played out like GCU in reverse. This time Oregon extended the lead late in the half. Went into the half with their biggest margin. Extended it to danger time early in the second half. Then just traded baskets with us the rest of the way.

A poster in another thread commented that we were saved by the halftime buzzer and he is so right. We were in danger of going down twenty.

 

[Luftgekuehlt67]

One other thing to say: based on the humiliating debacle this tournament has been for the Big Ten, if I were commish, I'd take this opportunity to take a long, hard look at the state of Big Ten officiating. Really.

The knock down drag out bar fights that pass for our conference games helps no one. Iowa looked absolutely dumbfounded by Oregon's quickness and speed today. While I'm not trying to put today's butt whooping on Big Ten officiating philosophy, I am saying I think you have to be open to the possibility it doesn't help.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Not a bad take, but I contend this team make up can't collectively shoot to save their lives. Joe W would help some if he comes back. And, these players are just 1 year older and will still get run off the court by a team like Oregon, Gonzaga, Illinois, (typical MSU) etc again.

Also going to be tough when we have to face teams where the majority of the team decided to come back because of the covid year.

Fran needs to hit the transfer portal and find himself a stud guard or two and probably another big. Start working on this today.

Marcus Carr is available. Interested?

 

[Motigerhawk]

I did the math - under Kirk, Iowa has outpaced their historical win percentage by a wide margin. You can love him, hate him, think he handles the program like an ass, etc but, objectively, in terms of W/L, he runs the program at a significantly higher performance level than what Iowa has historically enjoyed.

Fran is definitely above Iowa's historical program W/L percentage, but not as much as Kirk is. I think as long as he continues running a clean program, you keep Fran around. Iowa could (and routinely has) done much, much worse.

While an interesting take, it plays into Iowa mediocrity. Oh, we play better than history. Well, so would a football team that wins 10 a year and a BB team that wins 25.

Or you can just accept the mediocrity, because it is better than the below mediocrity of the past.

Me? I aspire for bigger and better things.

Jeez, Gonzaga is a mid major that has been successful for a decade and a half. Why are we diffrent from them? Maybe coaching? Oh yeah, we hired the Butler coach that was successful. Oh wait, that was his assisstant, we couldnt even hore the right mid major coach.

 

[HuckFinn]

I feel bad for Luka who really gave everything he had, all year long. I think JBo never recovered back to normal after the surgery. Conner was hurt and will need bilateral hip surgery this summer. CJ seemed like he could barely move. I feel Fran was too loyal to these guys playing them too many min. Instead JT and Perkins should have seen more time all year. My prediction we are going to loose several players to transfer this year.
Weise is gone, JT and Ulis will transfer. Perkins 50/50. Murray will stay. I am 100% sure Patrick is staying . Listening to the Ducks coach is revealing. Basically his plan was to let Luka have his game and completely shut down our 3's. He also thought Iowa would be tired after having played a game and his team might be a little rusty. So he told his team they just had to stay with Iowa the first half and then they would be in good shape. People are getting too down on Iowa after this loss. I thing part of the issue is Iowa is more worn down and they ran into a team that couldn't miss

Your comments on transfers make no sense. Fran went with experience, but managed good playing time for younger players. In the BT experience pays dividends. You are right about Oregon shooting the ball. We can bitch forever about our D, which clearly is a weakness. But, if Oregon or anyone else shoots like they did against us, they are final 4.

 

[Motigerhawk]

Oregon is final 4 except for the fact they are in Gonzagas region.

 

[HawksMN]

We may have been over seeded but I think a lot of that is due to playing I'm a meat grinder of a conference like the BIG. I think Oregon will go on to win the National Championship.

No chance. There are teams with athleticism to match theirs, plus have bigs to squish their midgets.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

Sure why not?

Marcus Carr is available. Interested?

 

[teachercoach]

Most guys in the transfer portal either have a ton of people in their ears who are 'me' people or due to a coaching change. Coaching change usually means the guys who were there weren't good enough/didn't work. Sometimes due to lack of PT, but you get every single day to show you should be playing more. It can be a cruel shock when you've always been 'the man' and now you're not close.

Sometimes, you see a Bakari Evelyn or Liam Robbins who want to move up a level of play and see if they can compete.

Oregon did have 2 or 3 transfers in their starting 5 today. Takes the right coach with the right communication to make that work. Maturity, accepting your role, all that goes with that isn't easy.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Its not Iowa's fault or the B1G's fault that the teams were over rated.

Still we Iowa fans usually have an over inflated sense of greatness about our teams. We're so used to watching and cheering for mediocre, that when we see something pretty good, we think its exceptional. We see it in football and here in basketball. Fans of great programs know it when they see it. We don't.

And I was concerned about Iowa's defence when they got to the tournament. Those concerns were confirmed today.

Iowa's Achilles heel.....................

Defence ! ......................... Defence !.........................Defence !!!!!

 

[blubberhawk]

Iowa's Achilles heel.....................

Defence ! ......................... Defence !.........................Defence !!!!!

Defense, Defense, Defense

 

[BigD]

Where did I mention the bench in my post? Tell me. I mentioned two starters in JBo and CJ who are really good shooters and they scored zero as did CMac who maybe could have driven to get a bucket and made one jumper.

Three starters who didnt score. Now when I made that post I didnt know that CMac and CJ were hurting (maybe Keegan should have started for Cmac and more time for others in CJ's place which is how it turned out).

I will await your answer.

I am sorry if it seemed I was jumping all over you. That was more directed at those who are always the “maybe next year” type of fans. This was next year. All time leading scorer in school history, leading assist player, etc, etc, etc. I apologize for taking my frustrations out on you. Cub’s fan syndrome.

Specifically it was the last statement on your post that I was referring to; “We need more quickness and team speed and I hope that is already on the bench.” Fran doesn’t seem to be able to recruit team speed and this his defense SUCKS. It’s not like he is a new coach and needs time to recruit his types of players. At this point what we see is what we’re getting................. unfortunately. Team speed we haven’t been getting.

I half laugh with the next statement; If this were Tennessee and Barta did down there what he does at Iowa he would literally have to fear for his life. The fans in the south take their sports programs dead serious with an emphasis on DEAD. To keep extending contracts and giving pay raises to coaches who basically are on a highway of mediocrity to just above average without a pathway to ever reaching greatness, is maddening to true sports enthusiasts. After all isn’t the idea to compete at a level to reach supremacy once in while? Not at the University of Iowa. That’s maddening as a fan of a team you have followed your whole life.

When I was younger there were a few sports writers who would address this, but it just seems like all the Iowa media has turned into a bunch of ass kissers.

Fran and Barta should be facing some major heat right now from the sports media locally as well as nationally. I did see a post on here about one sport person getting on Fran a little, it has anyone in the local sports media said anything. Has this world gone mad??

There a more than a few on here that are pissed off. They have a right o be. The ultimate goals is to compete at a National level in a competent way.

In football that would mean at the very least winning your own division at least once every four years. In basketball it’s fine to finish as the third seed but that should manifest itself in sweet sixteens a few times here and there. Do you agree or disagree with that? I think I am being very reasonable.

I am not asking us to be a blue blood in either of the two major sports, but we have settled to a point where the fan base local sports media have settled with not even winning the West division in football or getting to the the second round in the tournament.

So again I apologize for snapping at you, I just wish the Iowa fan base would get a little southern fire in them and start demanding more from the powers that be at Iowa. Wouldn’t hurt to scare the pah Jesus out of a few of these people so they will move on and get someone in there that gives a damn and wants to try. Even if you fall flat on your face, at least effing try. Nope, more extensions and pay raises on the way.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Defense, Defense, Defense

Yea, I was spelling it like NCHawker for a joke. Responding to his thread.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I am sorry if it seemed I was jumping all over you. That was more directed at those who are always the “maybe next year” type of fans. This was next year. All time leading scorer in school history, leading assist player, etc, etc, etc. I apologize for taking my frustrations out on you. Cub’s fan syndrome.

Specifically it was the last statement on your post that I was referring to; “We need more quickness and team speed and I hope that is already on the bench.” Fran doesn’t seem to be able to recruit team speed and this his defense SUCKS. It’s not like he is a new coach and needs time to recruit his types of players. At this point what we see is what we’re getting................. unfortunately. Team speed we haven’t been getting.

I half laugh with the next statement; If this were Tennessee and Barta did down there what he does at Iowa he would literally have to fear for his life. The fans in the south take their sports programs dead serious with an emphasis on DEAD. To keep extending contracts and giving pay raises to coaches who basically are on a highway of mediocrity to just above average without a pathway to ever reaching greatness, is maddening to true sports enthusiasts. After all isn’t the idea to compete at a level to reach supremacy once in while? Not at the University of Iowa. That’s maddening as a fan of a team you have followed your whole life.

When I was younger there were a few sports writers who would address this, but it just seems like all the Iowa media has turned into a bunch of ass kissers.

Fran and Barta should be facing some major heat right now from the sports media locally as well as nationally. I did see a post on here about one sport person getting on Fran a little, it has anyone in the local sports media said anything. Has this world gone mad??

There a more than a few on here that are pissed off. They have a right o be. The ultimate goals is to compete at a National level in a competent way.

In football that would mean at the very least winning your own division at least once every four years. In basketball it’s fine to finish as the third seed but that should manifest itself in sweet sixteens a few times here and there. Do you agree or disagree with that? I think I am being very reasonable.

I am not asking us to be a blue blood in either of the two major sports, but we have settled to a point where the fan base local sports media have settled with not even winning the West division in football or getting to the the second round in the tournament.

So again I apologize for snapping at you, I just wish the Iowa fan base would get a little southern fire in them and start demanding more from the powers that be at Iowa. Wouldn’t hurt to scare the pah Jesus out of a few of these people so they will move on and get someone in there that gives a damn and wants to try. Even if you fall flat on your face, at least effing try. Nope, more extensions and pay raises on the way.

The football program is what it is. It ain't gonna get materially better. I'd like to see more divisional titles, but that just is an invite to get throttled by OSU so I don't really care if we get second or third in the division other than in those miracle years where we have a really loaded team, which happens like once a decade at best.

Basketball is much easier to get good at, but the mid majors are throwing their whole weight at hoops and it is getting harder for mid tier power conference teams to be relevant. Schools like Davidson, Gonzaga, Butler, Villanova, Wichita State, Creighton, etc. are doing everything in their power to try to become relevant in hoops because the bar is way lower and they've found that the marketing push from a good hoops team is 100x better than any other sort of advertising. The schools are a business. Problem is damned near every school with a student body over 5,000 and a D-1 hoops team is trying to do it now. And the data coming through AAU and high school hoops is overwhelming. There aren't a lot of diamonds in the rough (guys like Ja Morant who go from unheralded to lottery picks) but there are more than enough guys to field a lot of solid teams if the coaches do the right due diligence and have a vision. The problem as I see it is if you have a coach whose vision of the team is Mike Gesell or JoBo as the starting PG, you can have a really solid team that will even get ranked in years it has a decent start in Big Ten play, but your ceiling is really, really low.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I am sorry if it seemed I was jumping all over you. That was more directed at those who are always the “maybe next year” type of fans. This was next year. All time leading scorer in school history, leading assist player, etc, etc, etc. I apologize for taking my frustrations out on you. Cub’s fan syndrome.

Specifically it was the last statement on your post that I was referring to; “We need more quickness and team speed and I hope that is already on the bench.” Fran doesn’t seem to be able to recruit team speed and this his defense SUCKS. It’s not like he is a new coach and needs time to recruit his types of players. At this point what we see is what we’re getting................. unfortunately. Team speed we haven’t been getting.

I half laugh with the next statement; If this were Tennessee and Barta did down there what he does at Iowa he would literally have to fear for his life. The fans in the south take their sports programs dead serious with an emphasis on DEAD. To keep extending contracts and giving pay raises to coaches who basically are on a highway of mediocrity to just above average without a pathway to ever reaching greatness, is maddening to true sports enthusiasts. After all isn’t the idea to compete at a level to reach supremacy once in while? Not at the University of Iowa. That’s maddening as a fan of a team you have followed your whole life.

When I was younger there were a few sports writers who would address this, but it just seems like all the Iowa media has turned into a bunch of ass kissers.

Fran and Barta should be facing some major heat right now from the sports media locally as well as nationally. I did see a post on here about one sport person getting on Fran a little, it has anyone in the local sports media said anything. Has this world gone mad??

There a more than a few on here that are pissed off. They have a right o be. The ultimate goals is to compete at a National level in a competent way.

In football that would mean at the very least winning your own division at least once every four years. In basketball it’s fine to finish as the third seed but that should manifest itself in sweet sixteens a few times here and there. Do you agree or disagree with that? I think I am being very reasonable.

I am not asking us to be a blue blood in either of the two major sports, but we have settled to a point where the fan base local sports media have settled with not even winning the West division in football or getting to the the second round in the tournament.

So again I apologize for snapping at you, I just wish the Iowa fan base would get a little southern fire in them and start demanding more from the powers that be at Iowa. Wouldn’t hurt to scare the pah Jesus out of a few of these people so they will move on and get someone in there that gives a damn and wants to try. Even if you fall flat on your face, at least effing try. Nope, more extensions and pay raises on the way.

Talking about Iowa competing at a national level. I support what you state above. Put this into perspective.

Iowa hasn't had like a Sweet 16 bid since the 1987-1988 team, like 33-34 years! They've only won or shared winning the conference since 1979, 42 years! You know how many Purdue has in that time span, 10! Wisconsin 5.

Dana Altman has like 5 or 6 Sweet 16 bids in his 11 year span at Oregon, AT OREGON!! I won't even mention Gonzaga's success and rise as a mid major to perennial contender.

Of the original BIG 10 teams (not the 4 added over the last years), pretty much Iowa and Northwestern are setting the lower bar (and I mean by far) as far as winning anything in basketball in the modern era, and I'm talking 1980's and forward.

 

[BigD]

The football program is what it is. It ain't gonna get materially better. I'd like to see more divisional titles, but that just is an invite to get throttled by OSU so I don't really care if we get second or third in the division other than in those miracle years where we have a really loaded team, which happens like once a decade at best.

Basketball is much easier to get good at, but the mid majors are throwing their whole weight at hoops and it is getting harder for mid tier power conference teams to be relevant. Schools like Davidson, Gonzaga, Butler, Villanova, Wichita State, Creighton, etc. are doing everything in their power to try to become relevant in hoops because the bar is way lower and they've found that the marketing push from a good hoops team is 100x better than any other sort of advertising. The schools are a business. Problem is damned near every school with a student body over 5,000 and a D-1 hoops team is trying to do it now. And the data coming through AAU and high school hoops is overwhelming. There aren't a lot of diamonds in the rough (guys like Ja Morant who go from unheralded to lottery picks) but there are more than enough guys to field a lot of solid teams if the coaches do the right due diligence and have a vision. The problem as I see it is if you have a coach whose vision of the team is Mike Gesell or JoBo as the starting PG, you can have a really solid team that will even get ranked in years it has a decent start in Big Ten play, but your ceiling is really, really low.

Fair analysis on the basketball side of things. I also agreed that as long as the status quo continues with football program we are where we are. It wouldn’t bother me however if we get beat by Ohio State in the championship game every other year as at least there is always hope for an upset. There is no team in our own division that we shouldn’t be winning out over at the very minimum of once every fourth season. There just isn’t an excuse for that. Big bad Wisconsin? Please??? Give me a break.

 

[BigD]

Talking about Iowa competing at a national level. I support what you state above. Put this into perspective.

Iowa hasn't had like a Sweet 16 bid since the 1987-1988 team, like 33-34 years! They've only won or shared winning the conference since 1979, 42 years! You know how many Purdue has in that time span, 10! Wisconsin 5.

Dana Altman has like 5 or 6 Sweet 16 bids in his 11 year span at Oregon, AT OREGON!! I won't even mention Gonzaga's success and rise as a mid major to perennial contender.

Of the original BIG 10 teams (not the 4 added over the last years), pretty much Iowa and Northwestern are setting the lower bar (and I mean by far) as far as winning anything in basketball in the modern era, and I'm talking 1980's and forward.

Don’t you hate it when someone post facts. Great comment!

 

[ajdwhs87]

We may have been over seeded but I think a lot of that is due to playing I'm a meat grinder of a conference like the BIG. I think Oregon will go on to win the National Championship.

Seriously. The Iowa makes a team look great and now they will win the championship? Oregon is not as good as Iowa made them look. Would make it sting less to say we lost the the eventual champs. USC beat them by 14 and held them to 58 points and Kansas to 51. Probably beat Oregon again. Oregon could win against USC but run should end against Gozaga if they do.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Don’t you hate it when someone post facts. Great comment!

You made me look the info up and I was astounded how long it's been and how futile Iowa has been over the years.

There is a certain graph in the "BIG 10 Basketball Conference Champions" Wiki page that spells it out perfect. It has the teams and their championship years beside them and goes to the most current. Purdue is on top and all the teams are listed. There is a big drop off at the bottom which includes Iowa and Northwestern. Minnesota had it's 1997 championship revoked.

I wish I could cut and paste that graph in here but it never seems to do well from Wiki pages.