Past NBA stars in today's game.

[ssckelley]

Oh Jeebus, such an old, stupid argument. Get over it already. What did you want LeBron to do? What move would have saved him from criticism? Honest question, I'd love to hear your response. Staying in Cleveland? What if he would've went to the Bulls? People would still be saying the same, dumb thing.

I really don't give a crap what Lebron did/does. Had he came to the Bulls you would not have seen as much criticism since DRose had not established himself as an elite player and the Bulls would not have been able to afford both Wade & Lebron. Lebron, Bosh, and Wade all went to the same team with the idea of winning a championship together, basically trying to stack the cards in their favor which is where the criticisms come in. There is nothing wrong with it as similar moves have been made in all sports. Cleveland tried to build around Lebron and he would have went out with a similar legacy as Jordan had he stuck it out. Jordan did not win his first title until he was 27, the same age Lebron is today.

Like I said before Jordan was a different type of player he wanted to be the best and beat the best. Pippen was a great player, no question about it, but without Jordan he was not a superstar player. Back then you did not have superstar players trying to work it out so that they played on the same team to win a championship together.

I've always thought it was laughable when Magic makes the argument that he never would have left to join another superstar. Well when you're drafted to a team with Kareem and then are joined by guys like Cooper, Worthy, Thompson and Scott you don't have any reason to leave.

There is a big difference in how the Lakers went about putting their championship teams together than how Wade, Bosh, and Lebron went about it. Not that there is anything wrong with it but it is not very often players work together so that they all land on the same team together through free agency. Plus there was a ton of media coverage surrounding it and it did not help how big of a fit the Cleveland owner threw over it.

 

[jacknicholson]

Having BJ and Bobby Hansen play with Jordan just made things all the better.....

I believe pro basketball has gone downhill from the Jordan days. His shoes and personality are probably never going to be replaced.....

I remember his second season with the Bulls. He scored 63 points against Larry Bird and the Celtics in a losing cause in the playoffs.....

 

[hawkfan33]

I really don't give a crap what Lebron did/does. Had he came to the Bulls you would not have seen as much criticism since DRose had not established himself as an elite player and the Bulls would not have been able to afford both Wade & Lebron. Lebron, Bosh, and Wade all went to the same team with the idea of winning a championship together, basically trying to stack the cards in their favor which is where the criticisms come in. There is nothing wrong with it as similar moves have been made in all sports. Cleveland tried to build around Lebron and he would have went out with a similar legacy as Jordan had he stuck it out. Jordan did not win his first title until he was 27, the same age Lebron is today.

Like I said before Jordan was a different type of player he wanted to be the best and beat the best. Pippen was a great player, no question about it, but without Jordan he was not a superstar player. Back then you did not have superstar players trying to work it out so that they played on the same team to win a championship together.



There is a big difference in how the Lakers went about putting their championship teams together than how Wade, Bosh, and Lebron went about it. Not that there is anything wrong with it but it is not very often players work together so that they all land on the same team together through free agency. Plus there was a ton of media coverage surrounding it and it did not help how big of a fit the Cleveland owner threw over it.

Pippen was 3rd in MVP voting without Jordan, he led the Bulls to 55 wins. That's about the definition of being a superstar.

LeBron left in poor fashion but to think of less him for going to a better team is unreasonable. KG and Ray Allen did the same thing, and they did it without any of the criticism LeBron took.

 

[ssckelley]

Pippen was 3rd in MVP voting without Jordan, he led the Bulls to 55 wins. That's about the definition of being a superstar.

Finishing 3rd in MVP voting?

The very next season they went 34-31 before Jordan came back.

LeBron left in poor fashion but to think of less him for going to a better team is unreasonable. KG and Ray Allen did the same thing, and they did it without any of the criticism LeBron took.

Take that up with the media, not me. Lebron will always be thought of one of the greatest players of his generation but he would have left a lasting legacy had he stayed at Cleveland and I still think he could have won a championship there.

 

[Foval21]

Let me start by saying I'm young and haven't seen them in person but I have hundreds of hours of video on the old Lakers, Celtics, and Bulls. Some will argue that if you haven't seen them in person you can't form and accurate opinion. Let me assure you that I've seen current games in person and on tv and I promise its the same thing.Jordan-Dominated his time, and would dominate our time. Plain and simple. Only difference I see are the faces in the posters.Magic-I think in todays game and at his size he would be even more impressive today.Reggie Miller-Picture Ray Allen. Then picture someone a little better then Ray Allen and who likes to get under your skin. Now your seeing Reggie Miller. Same numbers, just too good.Clyde The Glide- I would love to see him play in todays game because he would force teams to play fast and smart on defense. I think his numbers would be somewhat similar.Stockton-See jazz in the 80s and 90s. This decade would look no different as great vision and passing skills will always translate well.K. Malone-Giant girl. Big men today would own him. Seen his game several times don't know if I saw him dunk once, took some cute layups tho.Larry Legend-In his time he was amazing and far superior to others. One of my favorite players to watch on video. However he is the one person who's game I think wouldn't translate as well today. If you look at his numbers they are good but not necessarily top 10 player material. I think his biggest problem would be his speed and the speed of todays players. I believe he would still be great just not as dominant as in his day.I tried giving an objective opinion and I know some older posters will drill me over Larry but I've seen the same thing as you guys and slow is slow. I see him as a mike miller today but a more dominant.

jordan - still great

magic - still great

miller - still good. he would be a downgrade because he lacked quickness and was usually 3 in taller than those guarding him. and would be an even weaker defender now than he was then.

drexler - still good but downgrade because he had no shot.

stockton - great but wouldnt be as highly regarded by fans because he isnt that fancy for a pass 1st pg and today fans like fancy pgs.

malone - still great he had back to the basket and face up skills better than tim duncan in his prime. and no pf/c has that combo today in the game. gasol is the closest and he still isnt there. dunks are overrated.

bird - still great. smartest player ever to play basketball. quicker shot than anyone else listed and though not fast he was quick. rock solid defender and the greatest trash talker ever. he was in everyones head and with all the hot heads today he would own them. his defense was underrated. good rebounder and great scorer/shooter.

 

[GoHawks24]

Finishing 3rd in MVP voting?

The very next season they went 34-31 before Jordan came back.



Take that up with the media, not me. Lebron will always be thought of one of the greatest players of his generation but he would have left a lasting legacy had he stayed at Cleveland and I still think he could have won a championship there.

Would you have stayed in that situation? Please, do me a favor and list off the best supporting players that LeBron had with him in Cleveland and try not to laugh. Even Jordan had Pippen, Kobe had Shaq/Gasol, Robinson had Duncan. LeBron had nobody in Cleveland.

 

[hawkfan33]

Lebron not only had Ricky Davis, but Darius Miles, DaJuan Wagner, and Jeff McInnis. Some real high quality character guys on that squad.

I swear there was just a giant pic of Ricky here, so this post made more sense than.

 

[jacknicholson]

Lebron not only had Ricky Davis, but Darius Miles, DaJuan Wagner, and Jeff McInnis. Some real high quality character guys on that squad.

I swear there was just a giant pic of Ricky here, so this post made more sense than.

Had to delete it because of the size, wasn't supposed to be that large......

Ricky was certainly a character with a well-developed Ego, but I still loved to see him play......

 

[clicheusername3]

Pippen was 3rd in MVP voting without Jordan, he led the Bulls to 55 wins. That's about the definition of being a superstar.

LeBron left in poor fashion but to think of less him for going to a better team is unreasonable. KG and Ray Allen did the same thing, and they did it without any of the criticism LeBron took.

Pippens' main claim to being totally relevant today would be his ability to guard 3 positions at an all-NBA level. Every coach would be creaming their pants over him.

 

[ssckelley]

Would you have stayed in that situation? Please, do me a favor and list off the best supporting players that LeBron had with him in Cleveland and try not to laugh. Even Jordan had Pippen, Kobe had Shaq/Gasol, Robinson had Duncan. LeBron had nobody in Cleveland.

Heck yeah I would have stayed in Cleveland, they idolized him there as he was the local hero. Again he is only 27 years old and the ownership was trying to get supporting players to go there. I know he was past his prime but they did go out and get Shaq, who was still an asset come playoff time. They also gave up an All Star (Ilgauskas) and a 1st round pick to acquire Jamison. Who would have thought he would have aged so quickly at 33. With as good as Lebron is it should not have taken much of a supporting cast.

 

[GoHawks24]

Heck yeah I would have stayed in Cleveland, they idolized him there as he was the local hero. Again he is only 27 years old and the ownership was trying to get supporting players to go there. I know he was past his prime but they did go out and get Shaq, who was still an asset come playoff time. They also gave up an All Star (Ilgauskas) and a 1st round pick to acquire Jamison. Who would have thought he would have aged so quickly at 33. With as good as Lebron is it should not have taken much of a supporting cast.

1. Then you're not very bright or just lying to yourself.

2. You call a guy who had his lowest averages in his career so far in nearly every statistical category an asset? Lol..

3. Just because the organization made a stupid move doesn't mean that the supporting cast was there.

You basically just expect LeBron to carry a team more than any other player has ever had to? Lol...

 

[JonDMiller]

Good topic..I am instantly taken back to a debate my dad and I had when I was around 21. He told me how Oscar Robertson and Wilt Chamberlain were just as good of players as Michael Jordan...in fact, I think he debated Wilt was a more dominant player.

I argued then...now, I probably would back off some.

MJ is the GOAT, without debate, however.

Larry Bird, a player I disliked because he was a Celtic and I was a Dr J Sixers fan, could certainly be Larry Legend in today's game. When I see guys like Lemarcus Aldridge, Kevin Love and Blake Griffin averaging over 20 a game and David Lee getting more than 18? Yeah, Larry would get his. Bird could average 8 boards a game, 20 points per game and lead the league in three pointers while also leading the league in minutes played.

For his career he averaged nearly 25 points per game and 8.0 rebounds per game. We are also talking about a three-time MVP.

As for the Karl Malone comments..Malone would get his, too.

Guys like Dwight Howard are fun to watch because of their athleticism, but Karl Malone is a much better all around player than a Howard or a Blake Griffin IMO. Much better shooter and every bit as built.

Kobe is one of the all time greats...Lebron is a freak show athlete with guard skills, something Magic brought to the table in his era. Kevin Durant is truly a unique kind of player..I can't think of too many guys like him in my lifetime.

Basketball is really the one game I have seen where previous generations could come and play with today's players and be just fine.

 

[ssckelley]

1. Then you're not very bright or just lying to yourself.

2. You call a guy who had his lowest averages in his career so far in nearly every statistical category an asset? Lol..

3. Just because the organization made a stupid move doesn't mean that the supporting cast was there.

You basically just expect LeBron to carry a team more than any other player has ever had to? Lol...

No, I just don't run just because the going gets tough.

But typical attitude today, everything has to come quick and easy. After all, everything else came quick and easy for Lebron. Why not a championship?

 

[papathawki]

Aw Jeez, you mentioned "Clyde The Glide". Many years ago, our family dog (black lab and my wonderful pheasant hunting companion), passed away and we acquired a new family puppy. Our kids, about, about 14 and 11, named him "Clyde" after guess who? Clyde lived to the ripe old age of 14, and we cried when he had to be, put to sleep. Appologize for the nostalgic post, but I feel better after passing this story on.

 

[RocknRollface]

I've seen this argument several times and I'm not sure I completely buy into it. I seem to recall that Jordan was starting to show some signs of dissatisfaction before Pippen and Grant came along.

Who knows, if the Bulls had made poor personnel decisions like Cleveland did, instead of picking up Grant and Pippen, then maybe Jordan might have went elsewhere like LeBron did.

Its true, Jordan played alongside another top 50 all time player, and then with a third hall of famer in Rodman for his later years. So its really not that much different.

 

[RocknRollface]

One thing this thread has proven beyond any doubt: very few here on Hawkeyenation know much about the NBA today.

Im not sure what argument your making but..

The Lakers, Celtics and Pistons of the 80s and the Bulls of the 90s would have run either team in the finals last year off the court in 4 games.

Heck, there were quite a few teams from those eras that never won a championship that would easily beat the Mavs or Heat.

The suns with Barkley and KJ, Ewings Knicks, Jazz with Malone and Stockton, the Soncis with Payton and Kemp, the Blazers with Drexler all come to mind.

 

[RocknRollface]

I've always thought it was laughable when Magic makes the argument that he never would have left to join another superstar. Well when you're drafted to a team with Kareem and then are joined by guys like Cooper, Worthy, Thompson and Scott you don't have any reason to leave.

Agree, that was the most talented NBA team ever.

 

[RocknRollface]

Pippens' main claim to being totally relevant today would be his ability to guard 3 positions at an all-NBA level. Every coach would be creaming their pants over him.

Ironically Pippen was probably the most equipped guy in the league to be able to guard Jordan, but he was on his team.

 

[bcl20]

I've been a hardcore NBA fan for a very short time period so what type of impact does the legalization of zone defense have on the game?

 

[Benddontbreak]

This thread is ridiculous. We're comparing two completely different eras of basketball. You can't compare players that played without a 3 point line to players now because defense is played completely different. And obviously Jordan is better than any freaking player in the league, but look at the amount of athletes in the NBA now compared to the 90s. Players are bigger, faster, and stronger, technology is improving and workout regimens are much more developed. Faceless white guys like Adam Keefe who had a huge role for the Jazz in the 90s would be playing for the Iowa Energy now. The style of play and the culture of the game is completely different, making it uncomparable.