Not throwing in the towel just yet

PCHawk said:
But even if he wins, he won't "win you. If he "won you" he wouldn't be coaching for his job next year like you keep suggesting.
Click to expand...

He can win me for another year. He's always coaching for his job with me after the 17/18 season. I think it's ok if I set a standard with my fandom. My bar. My bar is NCAA. He should be in it this year. So, he can win me. He still has me. He's losing me and I've let you guys know that. Which I think is ok too.
 
deanvogs said:
Did you actually watch Cook for 3 years? I simply can't believe some of the stuff people say about Tyler on here. Tyler is on an NBA roster, and that ain't because the college game was "too quick" for him.
Click to expand...

You're right, he's not on an NBA roster because the game is too quick for him. He's on it because he has NBA athleticism. And let me clarify. It's not that he processes the game so slow that it makes him slow. It's just that he processes it too slow to use his NBA athleticism to his full advantage. If he processed the game like Baer he would have been a lottery pick two years ago. He's a combination of really quick physically and kinda slow reactionary. That's evident over the tons of interior passes he could have easily gotten a hand on but didn't even see it coming until it was about a full second late.
 
I feel that it's incredibly unfortunate that DePaul was 3-0 and we were only 1-0. If we had played more games and they had played less, the game might have been a little different. This is going to be a little painful as the new pieces of the team try to learn to play together, and we hope they will improve with experience - I'm not going to write them off yet.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Anyway early season losses do happen in college basketball. We don’t know for sure how good or not good Depaul will be. I personally think they are going to be pretty solid team and go dancing this year. I also mentioned early in the day that playing 3 games compared to Iowa’s 1 was an advantage for them, which I still believe was true.
Click to expand...
I didn't even read this before my previous post, and was thinking at the time that this was a huge advantage for them, you could tell that our players were incredibly nervous and trying to learn where they fit in while Garza felt like he needed to force things down low.
 
InGoodCo said:
He can win me for another year. He's always coaching for his job with me after the 17/18 season. I think it's ok if I set a standard with my fandom. My bar. My bar is NCAA. He should be in it this year. So, he can win me. He still has me. He's losing me and I've let you guys know that. Which I think is ok too.
Click to expand...

I've got no problem with what you expect. I'm just saying you can't really say someone can win you if he's still not one even a year later. You would think if a coach "won you over" it would last at least a little while huh?
 
NikeHawk21 said:
I’m going to pick one small part out of this post because I saw you post it elsewhere. I don’t think it’s so much that the McCaffery’s are on the team. I think Pat could turn out and I’ve pretty much always maintained that Connor was a mid major player. The thing is every B1G team has mid major level players on scholarship, it happens.

I think many feel that bringing those two guys in has killed us on the recruiting trail. It’s likely every coach that we are up against in recruiting is using that against them. He’s going to play his kids over you. There was some recent stat about us not landing a player with a P5 offer since Fredrick. That’s pretty telling. So while that’s kind of a tough situation for both Fran and the two sons, it can be argued it’s a reason we are where we are today.
Click to expand...

I truly hope Frans kids have hurt him on the recruiting trail because if that's true, we should see an upswing in a couple years. We just gotta hope the guys we have now can keep us fringe NCAA team this yea and next, then we can hopefully benefit from what Fran is truly capable of without those concrete shoes to worry about.
 
InGoodCo said:
And I get that argument and it very well could be the case. I just don't know that there's really a way to prove that. Garza, Cook, Nunge, Touissant, they've all committed to Iowa since Connor. It's a theory tho and one that I would certainly give at least some credence to. But, Fran might have came in 2nd place with these guys either way. I am sure it's used against him on the recruiting trail though, so I wouldn't really argue against that. It's not like his kids are just dominating the minutes and playing time since they arrived on campus. But I get it. It's just an argument that has no real evidence so it's hard for me to really substantiate. They are 2 players of 13 scholarships so IMO a lot of that is overblown because again, it's low hanging fruit. Either way it's Fran's bed.
Click to expand...

As bad as Fran was a landing point guards in the years around connor committing, it really stands to reason that it had a lot to do with it. It just seems too hard to buy the fact that he's been fine recruiting 4 positions but is terrible at recruiting 1.
 
PCHawk said:
I've got no problem with what you expect. I'm just saying you can't really say someone can win you if he's still not one even a year later. You would think if a coach "won you over" it would last at least a little while huh?
Click to expand...

Things change quick in sports man. You know this. You know that I've been a staunch FM supporter on this site for 10 years. But things change. They are definitely changing for me with Fran but I can tell you this, if he goes out and wins and makes the dance. We're cool.

Things change. I feel like the tide is turning. Sports is yearly assessment for me. I am not giving up on this season yet. Just stating I can't stomach another year like 17/18.

Things change quick... like Nike's quote about that "there was some recent stat about us not landing a player with a P5 offer since Fredrick."....well, that was true 30 minutes ago. It's not now.
 
PCHawk said:
As bad as Fran was a landing point guards in the years around connor committing, it really stands to reason that it had a lot to do with it. It just seems too hard to buy the fact that he's been fine recruiting 4 positions but is terrible at recruiting 1.
Click to expand...

Doesn't Patrick hurt the other 4 positions or no? Or just PG?
 
If you want to chalk it up as "just one game", that's fair. I'm willing to let the season play out (at least most of the way) before making any ultimate judgments.

But I've gotta say, waiting for Fran's teams to play good defense is like waiting for KF's football teams to have a potent offense. In other words, I'm not going to hold my breath.

We keep hearing about the improved defense. Like last year.. Then they finish dead last in the conference defensively. This year, once again: "The defense is improved". And they come out and allow over 60% shooting to DePaul. So the defense is improved? Yeah, sure. It's like waiting for the family alcoholic to keep their promises to part ways with the bottle.

I've seen this movie before.. So, prove me wrong, Hawks. Until then, my assumption is that this year will be more of the same.

I'm done with blind faith. Same thing goes for our recruiting classes.
 
Last edited:
NikeHawk21 said:
Well we couldn’t close any wings outside of the Murray’s who were legacies with no other offers who aren’t ranked.
Click to expand...

But he's been committed to Iowa for a while, so was Connor? I just don't completely buy it...but I do give it some credence. Obviously, recruiting seems to have taken a turn for the worse since they've been in the fold. I can't argue that. I personally just expected some of these guys to develop. They still can.

I was as down as anyone on this board the past 48 hours. I am sorry I have shown that I could turn to the dark side. I just really love Iowa hoops and I don't want to see it struggle. That's my bottom line.
 
InGoodCo said:
But he's been committed to Iowa for a while, so was Connor? I just don't completely buy it...but I do give it some credence. Obviously, recruiting seems to have taken a turn for the worse since they've been in the fold. I can't argue that. I personally just expected some of these guys to develop. They still can.

I was as down as anyone on this board the past 48 hours. I am sorry I have shown that I could turn to the dark side. I just really love Iowa hoops and I don't want to see it struggle. That's my bottom line.
Click to expand...
Well we had Wieskamp who grew up wanting to be a hawk so we didn’t really need to recruit a lot of wings over the last few years.

I understand your frustration with the game the other night, it sucked and it could be a sign of things to come. Or it could be we played bad and caught what could end up being a pretty good team on a hot night.
 
PCHawk said:
You're right, he's not on an NBA roster because the game is too quick for him. He's on it because he has NBA athleticism. And let me clarify. It's not that he processes the game so slow that it makes him slow. It's just that he processes it too slow to use his NBA athleticism to his full advantage. If he processed the game like Baer he would have been a lottery pick two years ago. He's a combination of really quick physically and kinda slow reactionary. That's evident over the tons of interior passes he could have easily gotten a hand on but didn't even see it coming until it was about a full second late.
Click to expand...

First of all Tyler isn’t superior athletically comparing him to other NBA players. He is just a hair over 6’8” and he can’t shoot a lick from the outside, and he only had a 32” vertical. 6’8”with Tyler’s athleticism are a dime a dozen in the NBA. You are so far off base on Cook, there is no point even taking this discussion any further.
 
deanvogs said:
First of all Tyler isn’t superior athletically comparing him to other NBA players. He is just a hair over 6’8” and he can’t shoot a lick from the outside, and he only had a 32” vertical. 6’8”with Tyler’s athleticism are a dime a dozen in the NBA. You are so far off base on Cook, there is no point even taking this discussion any further.
Click to expand...
He’s not nearly as off base as you are making it sound. He’s probably exaggerating a bit as are you. At 6’8/255 with his athleticism he’s not a dime a dozen, there are guys more athletic than him for certain but he’s definitely a physical specimen. The part you left off I’m guessing intentionally was the 255 part, because that’s the difference with Tyler you won’t find many guys that explosive with that much strength and power. Lebron James is (6’9/250).

Let us also be clear that Tyler is a deep reserve on one of the worst teams in the league, and part of that is believed to be from the fact that Belein was familiar with him.

Again I hope the best for Tyler going forward that should only help Iowa, but a lot of what PC has said isn’t completely off base.
 
deanvogs said:
First of all Tyler isn’t superior athletically comparing him to other NBA players. He is just a hair over 6’8” and he can’t shoot a lick from the outside, and he only had a 32” vertical. 6’8”with Tyler’s athleticism are a dime a dozen in the NBA. You are so far off base on Cook, there is no point even taking this discussion any further.
Click to expand...
Here is a list of heaviest players in the NBA. TC comes in at 27.
https://stats.nba.com/players/bio/?sort=PLAYER_WEIGHT&dir=1

If you’ll notice most of the guys in front of him are true centers and many 7 footers or taller. There are only a few on that list that have the type of athletic explosiveness and strength that TC has.
 
Too early, way too early to loose hope. Good teams and good players make adjustments. When the ball goes into Garza and he is double and tripled teamed he needs to find the open guy, pass it to him and that guy has to drain the shot. Simple basketball. Garza tried to worm around 2 or 3 defenders and that clearly didn't work for him or the Hawks. I'm sure Fran and company is smart enough to be working on that in practice. The next 3 games certainly look winnable for us and then we separate the men from the boys. Texas Tech, Syracuse, Michigan, Minny, and Iowa State. After this stretch of games we can make a more reasonable decision. We are OK or we clearly suck. It's hard after watching the DePaul game to think we are OK, but it was only the 2nd game of the season.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
He’s not nearly as off base as you are making it sound. He’s probably exaggerating a bit as are you. At 6’8/255 with his athleticism he’s not a dime a dozen, there are guys more athletic than him for certain but he’s definitely a physical specimen. The part you left off I’m guessing intentionally was the 255 part, because that’s the difference with Tyler you won’t find many guys that explosive with that much strength and power. Lebron James is (6’9/250).

Let us also be clear that Tyler is a deep reserve on one of the worst teams in the league, and part of that is believed to be from the fact that Belein was familiar with him.

Again I hope the best for Tyler going forward that should only help Iowa, but a lot of what PC has said isn’t completely off base.
Click to expand...

When people dislike a certain argument, they refuse to hear anything about it. That's what happened here. Dean hates the "iowa is better off without Cook" argument so much that he couldn't even comprehend what I said. Its beyond clear that Cook played slower than his athleticism would suggest he could. He played at full speed when he had the ball and knew where he was going with it. Other than that, he was a step slow. That's why he couldn't block shots very well. He doesn't anticipate very well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Share this page

Top