NL central

What's the point you're making then? I'm honestly curious. That we can't predict how a player will react in a hypothetical? That's a given. Halladay never pitched a "meaningful" game until last October and he responded with a no-hitter. Greinke has a Cy Young in recent history, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until he shows otherwise.

And I don't see how post count has any bearing on the conversation.
 
brhanse said:
What's the point you're making then? I'm honestly curious. That we can't predict how a player will react in a hypothetical? That's a given. Halladay never pitched a "meaningful" game until last October and he responded with a no-hitter. Greinke has a Cy Young in recent history, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until he shows otherwise.

And I don't see how post count has any bearing on the conversation.
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The same point I've made 3 or 4 times now - that nobody knows how he will react if it comes to that. If you want to give him the benefit of the doubt, fine.

Personally, I think the Brewers have too many problems on defense and in the back end of their bullpen to make a run at the division.
 
Like someone else said, I see a three team race - Cards, Brewers, Reds. The top of the Brewers rotation and their offense, assuming Fielder isn't dealt midseason, will have them in the division race. The issues you mentioned, bullpen and middle infield defense, will probably keep them from getting any further. Long way to go though.
 
If we're only comparing the Brewers and the Cubs, then the Brewers are the better team (and I'm a big Cubs fan). Greinke may fold under pressure, he might not. But the Cubs don't exactly have a strong playoff resume, either, and Greinke has more talent than any pitcher that the Cubs have.

Looking at the whole division, I'd still lean on picking either the Reds or even the Cardinals if Franklin gets out of his funk or the Cards find someone else for the back end. If Cueto comes back solid, the Reds will be pretty tough to beat (in the Central). The biggest caveat with the Cardinals for me besides Franklin is Carpenter's health.
 
The great (bad?) thing about the division is every team has holes. It'll basically boil down to health. Cards need Carpenter, Brewers will need Gallardo/Braun, Reds will need Votto and Cueto, etc. I think the Reds are probably the best bet there, the Brewers, Cubs, Cards don't have the same youth or depth. If Chapman can become a consistent reliever, the Reds become very dangerous.
 
The Cardinals? I'm a Cardinals fan and I don't see them challenging for the playoffs. Way too many question marks in the pitching staff. Carp is solid, but injury prone. Garcia had a great year last year, and started strong this year but is still young. Lohse? Westbrook? They both have career ERA's above 4. McClellan? Off to a good start but he's never been a full time starter.
 
atxhawk said:
The Cardinals? I'm a Cardinals fan and I don't see them challenging for the playoffs. Way too many question marks in the pitching staff. Carp is solid, but injury prone. Garcia had a great year last year, and started strong this year but is still young. Lohse? Westbrook? They both have career ERA's above 4. McClellan? Off to a good start but he's never been a full time starter.
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In a good division, no, the Cards wouldn't challenge. But the Central isn't a good division. It's full of mediocrity. Hell, you should remember that 83 wins managed to clinch first place not that long ago. The division is very weak, and it's up for grabs.
 
brhanse said:
What's the point you're making then? I'm honestly curious. That we can't predict how a player will react in a hypothetical? That's a given. Halladay never pitched a "meaningful" game until last October and he responded with a no-hitter. Greinke has a Cy Young in recent history, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until he shows otherwise.

And I don't see how post count has any bearing on the conversation.
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Comparing Grienke to Halladay is just dumb. Halladay pitched in the toughest division in baseball for over a decade, finished in the Top 5 in Cy Young voting six times, had an ERA+ over 130 eight times and was a proven workhorse.

Grienke had one great season and two slightly above average years. He's coming off a season where he had an ERA+ of 100, as average of year as you can have. He's also battled social anxiety disorder throughout his career.

Halladay did a hell of a lot more to earn the benefit of the doubt than the one year wonder Grienke.
 
tm3308 said:
In a good division, no, the Cards wouldn't challenge. But the Central isn't a good division. It's full of mediocrity. Hell, you should remember that 83 wins managed to clinch first place not that long ago. The division is very weak, and it's up for grabs.
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You're such an eternal optimist. :D
 
HawkeyeMike23 said:
Comparing Grienke to Halladay is just dumb. Halladay pitched in the toughest division in baseball for over a decade, finished in the Top 5 in Cy Young voting six times, had an ERA+ over 130 eight times and was a proven workhorse.

Grienke had one great season and two slightly above average years. He's coming off a season where he had an ERA+ of 100, as average of year as you can have. He's also battled social anxiety disorder throughout his career.

Halladay did a hell of a lot more to earn the benefit of the doubt than the one year wonder Grienke.
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I wasn't comparing them. Halladay has about 8 more years of experience and might be a lock for the HOF when he's done. I was arguing the idea that playing for a loser somehow prevents one from succeeding under pressure. Halladay is the best example I could think of. Greinke is still young, his prime is ahead of him. Maybe he'll stack up against Halladay one day, but he's too young to even make that comparison at this stage.
 
hawkfarmer said:
is a mess of mediocrity right now. The cubs are 8-8 and only a game back, but Pitt, St. Louis, and Brewers are tied there as well. If the cubs can get/stay healthy and keep up the pitching and get some timely hitting, you'd better believe they have a chance.

GO CUBS.
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The Cubs are now tied for 1st place in the powerhouse NL Central:

Cubs 9-9
Cincy 9-9
Milw 9-9
StL 9-9
Pitt 8-10
Hou 7-11

Let's enjoy 1st place while we are here!
 
Cubs have 3 against the Reds over the weekend and 3 against the Cards next week, both series at home. We are finally done playing the NL West for awhile and hopefully can get some momentum going in division play.

21 one the Cubs 30 games have been against the West.
 
Cancel any talk of momentum I had the Cubs gaining in the near future as I got home yesterday from work and Starlin Castro was on the cover of Sports Illustrated.

Seems like the curse already started before I got my magazine as he is about 1 for his last 90 it seems like.

Very good article though.
 
The Cubs will not win the central. As mediocre as that division is, the Cubs have proven that they are worse than that.
 
Hawkeye11en1 said:
The Cubs will not win the central. As mediocre as that division is, the Cubs have proven that they are worse than that.
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To the best of my knowledge, I don't think any of the Cub fans in this thread have come anywhere close to saying the team would win the division.
 
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