advantage gessell, advantage marble, huge advantage white, advantage basabe, advantage woodbury. marble is more a 3 that can play 2 and 1. i like may as a oerson but he is at best a 10th man in that group. you cant seriously believe he will play much next year. all incoming and current guards are better than him.
next yrs bball team...what i think it will look like
- Thread starter Foval21
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advantage gessell, advantage marble, huge advantage white, advantage basabe, advantage woodbury. marble is more a 3 that can play 2 and 1. i like may as a oerson but he is at best a 10th man in that group. you cant seriously believe he will play much next year. all incoming and current guards are better than him.
Wisconsin has a Center that they signed in the 2010 class named Evan Anderson. 4 star recruit, ranked 16th in the nation, 6'10'' 250. He redshirted his freshman year, and has played maybe a handful of minutes this year.
Illinois also had a big Center recruit in the 2010 class. Myers Leonard was a 5 star, 6th best in his class (position), 6'10'' 220. Last year as a freshman, he averaged 8 minutes and 2.1 points per game. This year, he has gotten stronger and is one of their best players.
Neither were as productive as you would expect in the first year(s). They are both former big recruits (4 or 5 stars) as true Centers, and they seem very comparable to Woodbury.
The real counterexample is the freshman from Indiana, Cody Zeller. To me, he is exceeding expectations and playing at a Sullinger like level (1st year). He didn't "need any time to develop, mature", he just stepped in and has been dominating. I haven't seen Indiana too much so correct me if I am wrong, but he isn't a true center. The Indiana athletic website lists him as a forward, and I think that makes a huge difference. Being an actual Center (a rarity in modern basketball) is a whole different animal. All four of these aforementioned guys have some similarities. However, the true Centers take longer to develop, and it makes sense.
I think Woodbury, like Anderson and Leonard, is a huge recruit for two reason. 1) he is good and worthy of scholarships. 2) He is 7'1". That is what makes him a 4 star. He doesn't dominate in HS the way he should.
I think that it will take a while for him to be comfortable and effective at Iowa, as it does with most centers.
Illinois also had a big Center recruit in the 2010 class. Myers Leonard was a 5 star, 6th best in his class (position), 6'10'' 220. Last year as a freshman, he averaged 8 minutes and 2.1 points per game. This year, he has gotten stronger and is one of their best players.
Neither were as productive as you would expect in the first year(s). They are both former big recruits (4 or 5 stars) as true Centers, and they seem very comparable to Woodbury.
The real counterexample is the freshman from Indiana, Cody Zeller. To me, he is exceeding expectations and playing at a Sullinger like level (1st year). He didn't "need any time to develop, mature", he just stepped in and has been dominating. I haven't seen Indiana too much so correct me if I am wrong, but he isn't a true center. The Indiana athletic website lists him as a forward, and I think that makes a huge difference. Being an actual Center (a rarity in modern basketball) is a whole different animal. All four of these aforementioned guys have some similarities. However, the true Centers take longer to develop, and it makes sense.
I think Woodbury, like Anderson and Leonard, is a huge recruit for two reason. 1) he is good and worthy of scholarships. 2) He is 7'1". That is what makes him a 4 star. He doesn't dominate in HS the way he should.
I think that it will take a while for him to be comfortable and effective at Iowa, as it does with most centers.
SirJamaLot
Well-Known Member
The kid is good and will have an impact next season.
http://www.highporchpicnic.com/2011/the-forgotten-one-iowa-commit-kyle-meyer-4
http://www.highporchpicnic.com/2011/the-forgotten-one-iowa-commit-kyle-meyer-4
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i was not predicting starting lineups
I was pointing out lineups for practice
i have not seen that type of depth in years and just asked for someones help in remembering the last time that happened
also i am not that concerned about Marble at the 2 as that would give us 2 solid ballhandiling guards
if Marble can be a solid point as he is showing he can be a 2
as for the 3 ball he has a full year to improve on that, he has shown he has the range
also he has improved his FT shooting
last season stats
66-174 2 pts attps to made 37.9%
11-41 3 pts attp to made 26.8 %
35-66 FT attps to made 53%
178 total pts 5.7 ppg
this season stats
48-108 2 pt attps to made 44.4%
3-12 3 pt attps to made 25%
43-55 ft attps to made 78.2%
142 total pts 10.9 ppg to date
i would say he has made a huge improvement from last year to this year
I was pointing out lineups for practice
i have not seen that type of depth in years and just asked for someones help in remembering the last time that happened
also i am not that concerned about Marble at the 2 as that would give us 2 solid ballhandiling guards
if Marble can be a solid point as he is showing he can be a 2
as for the 3 ball he has a full year to improve on that, he has shown he has the range
also he has improved his FT shooting
last season stats
66-174 2 pts attps to made 37.9%
11-41 3 pts attp to made 26.8 %
35-66 FT attps to made 53%
178 total pts 5.7 ppg
this season stats
48-108 2 pt attps to made 44.4%
3-12 3 pt attps to made 25%
43-55 ft attps to made 78.2%
142 total pts 10.9 ppg to date
i would say he has made a huge improvement from last year to this year
RocknRollface
Well-Known Member
Well, if the combo of Gessel and or Clemons aren't at least as effective as Marble is this year than Marble can play point next year too.
Fran isn't going to move Marble off that spot if it means sacrificing wins.
Than in the 4/5 spot you have basically the same lineup that is playing now Basabe, McCabe and White, but a year older. Then, if nothing else, instead of Archie and Brommer you will have Woodbury, Meyer and a hopefully much improved Olaseni to fill in. Those three may or may not be great but I can say with certainty they will have to be an improvement over the current 5s.
Out of the 5 freshman you have to expect two of them, and maybe as many as all 5 to be pretty good players and produce at least as well as Basabe, White and Ogelsby have the last two years as freshman.
I will say this, I absolutely expect Woodbury to contend for freshman of the year but even if he is a total no factor Iowa will still win more games next year, and again even more the year after that.
Gary Harris is a 5* recruit that is going to MSU and i am willing to bet at 10-1 odds he will be the odds on favorite to be selected to the preseason BT FM of the year
higher rated and a commit to MSU is a almost guarentee to get all the hype
Woodbury will more than likely make the BT all freshmen team if not Gesell as the teams success will determine who makes the team of the two with the better stats
higher rated and a commit to MSU is a almost guarentee to get all the hype
Woodbury will more than likely make the BT all freshmen team if not Gesell as the teams success will determine who makes the team of the two with the better stats
sportstalent
Well-Known Member
It will be shocking if Mable plays PG next season, it would mean that both PG's are not capable of running a team; not good.
The five freshman add everything the current roster does not have. I like White as a sixth man, unless he improves so much that Fran can't keep him off the floor as a starter. If the freshman can't handle the PG duties then Marble-Oglesby-White-Basabe-Woodbury would be a pretty nice lineup as well with tons of flexability off the bench.
The good thing is that the four returning players: Marble, Oglesby, White and Basabe are a better four core group than Iowa has had returning for a very long time. I think it would be safe to say that those four will handle the scoring duties for much of the year and the freshman can grow up rather than be forced to do everything as most Iowa freshman have been forced to in the last few seasons.
Woodbury is going to be just fine, really it doesn't matter who starts, he will play a significant role next season as will all the freshman.
The five freshman add everything the current roster does not have. I like White as a sixth man, unless he improves so much that Fran can't keep him off the floor as a starter. If the freshman can't handle the PG duties then Marble-Oglesby-White-Basabe-Woodbury would be a pretty nice lineup as well with tons of flexability off the bench.
The good thing is that the four returning players: Marble, Oglesby, White and Basabe are a better four core group than Iowa has had returning for a very long time. I think it would be safe to say that those four will handle the scoring duties for much of the year and the freshman can grow up rather than be forced to do everything as most Iowa freshman have been forced to in the last few seasons.
Woodbury is going to be just fine, really it doesn't matter who starts, he will play a significant role next season as will all the freshman.
herkyattack
Well-Known Member
Wait, so is basabe officially not transferring after this season? I coulda swore a couple weeks ago it was almost a done deal.
RocknRollface
Well-Known Member
I basically agree, my point was that the PG play being worse is not going to happen because at the very least Fran can put the same guy in that spot and the center spot cannot possibly be worse.
I would not be surprised at all to see the starters be Marble Ogelsby White. But I would prefer it be Gessel or Clemons at the 1.
I would also not be shocked to see Ingram ahead of Gessel and Clemons in the rotation but at the 2/3, his highlights are the most impressive out of the three IMO.
I think all three of the freshman guards will play and the odd man out will likely be May.
Its going to be really nice to have a mix of guys who can drive, pass and shoot.
There's no question that Marble has shown improvement but comparing stats from a 31 game season last year,to a soft non-conference slate this year is silly and irrelevant.
DesMoinesHawki
Well-Known Member
I love the fact we are getting more depth and acquiring players to help Fran run the type of offense and defense he is accustomed to. On paper, at least, things are looking very promising!
While I agree with what you say about the importance of starting, I disagree about Woodbury. I think he's going to start from Day 1. There will be growing pains for sure but he's 7'1" and pretty skilled. Something this team is lacking. I don't think theres any way he doesnt start.
The flipside of that is, wouldnt it be nice if we had such a buildup of experienced players that can play that we can afford to redshirt guys that, while talented, could use a year of getting stronger and learning the system?
Wisconsin redshirted Brian Butch a few years ago because they could.
Ingram will not start he is a 2 not a pg nor 3
not even sure how some got the idea he would or could be a 3
also his videos look very impressive but there are players in front of him
its not like it is the 1st season under Fran where he needed players
the only real player left from Lick is May
the arguement that McCabe and Marble were recruited by Lick is valid but
Marble is a legacy and i believe Marble would have come here anyway and as i recall Fran actually rerecruited him and McCabe who i feel is a Iowa kid who would have came no matter the coach if Offered
that means 11 of the 12 players are Fran's players
not even sure how some got the idea he would or could be a 3
also his videos look very impressive but there are players in front of him
its not like it is the 1st season under Fran where he needed players
the only real player left from Lick is May
the arguement that McCabe and Marble were recruited by Lick is valid but
Marble is a legacy and i believe Marble would have come here anyway and as i recall Fran actually rerecruited him and McCabe who i feel is a Iowa kid who would have came no matter the coach if Offered
that means 11 of the 12 players are Fran's players
you do realize Woodbury could just as easily contributed as well as Basabe did as a FR
and Gesell could develope just like Cartwright did as the season goes along
i don't expect Woodbury to be a 20 and 10 type of player simply because he doesn't have to be, because of the players around him
Gesell does not have to carry the team as well because he will have a solid supporting group around him like Woody does
and Gesell could develope just like Cartwright did as the season goes along
i don't expect Woodbury to be a 20 and 10 type of player simply because he doesn't have to be, because of the players around him
Gesell does not have to carry the team as well because he will have a solid supporting group around him like Woody does
redshirting is a thing of the past in bball. it is a scholarship you cant put on the floor. i feel olesani will get brommer and archies minutes by halfway through b1g.
ingram is a 2 but he is an undersized 2 which is why many think he will be a combo 1, 2. meyer seems to be slight in size and most players down low need to learn the physicality. gessell is a good defender in hs. on ball defense in college is a new game. he isnt craft. clemmons dont know a lot but heard he isnt a shooter at all. woodbury is like meyer with more size but pushing in hs and b1g are major differences. the players that are already here have deficiencies we already know and they will try to develop. may cant dribble or shoot that well. marble is not a good 3 pt shooter. basabe struggles trying to be a physical presence but excels as a backside help defender. oglesby and white arent that quick or physical but their length helps. yet i see development that hasnt happened at iowa in a long time. 2 yrs from now may be the start of something special.
ingram is a 2 but he is an undersized 2 which is why many think he will be a combo 1, 2. meyer seems to be slight in size and most players down low need to learn the physicality. gessell is a good defender in hs. on ball defense in college is a new game. he isnt craft. clemmons dont know a lot but heard he isnt a shooter at all. woodbury is like meyer with more size but pushing in hs and b1g are major differences. the players that are already here have deficiencies we already know and they will try to develop. may cant dribble or shoot that well. marble is not a good 3 pt shooter. basabe struggles trying to be a physical presence but excels as a backside help defender. oglesby and white arent that quick or physical but their length helps. yet i see development that hasnt happened at iowa in a long time. 2 yrs from now may be the start of something special.
what have you seen that tells you Gesell is not as good as Craft
he may actually be better than Craft
Marble has taken 12 3's, so the jury is still out on his ability to shoot 3's
his father didn't develope a good outside shot til his Jr year
right now Devon doesn't have to be a outside shooter
he may actually be better than Craft
Marble has taken 12 3's, so the jury is still out on his ability to shoot 3's
his father didn't develope a good outside shot til his Jr year
right now Devon doesn't have to be a outside shooter
offensively gessell is better than craft but until i see him on ball defend a b1g or college pt guard i will not put him in crafts league. craft is an incredible on ball defender which is as hard as anything in sports. devyn (please spell peoples names right if you can) needs to develop an outside shot just to keep defenders honest. it is just a deficiency right now. i was not saying he cant get there. i was just pointing out the weaknesses i see in the players. hopefully all those deficiencies get fixed and we will have a great team.
