Next year's Starting 5

RocknRollface said:
So dramatic. Yet so off base. Please don't weep.

How much time do you think Kyle Korver spends working on his dribble drive game? JJ Redick?

Seriously, how do you think guys become catch and shoot players? By doing it over and over and over.

Working on weaknesses is something that is great if theres realistic potential for it to be a part of your game.

Adam Woodbury has a big weakness as a 3 point shooter? Should he work on that?

You only have so much time to work on things. Jok has only two years of basketball left and after two years of college he has shown very little ability to get all the way to the rim and finish. Has had lots of tos though.

He would be much better served to spend the majority of his time learning how to run defenders off screens and perfecting his catch, turn and release mechanics.
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I just don't recall you being the silly ever RnR, so it is making me weepy.

Jok made more 2 pt FG than he did 3 pointers. Jok attempted more 2 pt FG than he did 3 pt FG. He isn't Fran's spot up shooter, he has never been that in Frans system. I'm not sure why you even think that Jok is some Korver, or Oglesby?? Ogs is the spot up shooter, he shot more than 3x as many 3 pt FG as 2 pt FG (96 to 28).

Fran has Ellingson on the roster and is bringing in Flemming in next year to fill Ogs roll. Jok never has been, or will he ever be just a spot up 3 point shooter. If you think that is all Jok should work on, you are gonna have to splain this to Fran, so he can change what he wants out of Jok. Jok is a wing in Fran's system just like Marble is a wing, Uthoff is a wing, Uhl will be a wing, Hutton & Williams will be wings. He likes to have 2 wings on the floor at most times, and that is why he is bringing so many in.
 
I'm not saying he has to only shoot threes or should never put the ball on the floor.

I realize everyone has to be able to put the ball on the floor at times.

And I'm not saying he's only a spot up guy but he's a jump shooter not a slasher. He's the best jump shooter we've had since Gatens. Most of his shots from 2 are still jump shots. if he could become a guy who can run off screens and get open without the ball that's where he could be exceptional.
 
RocknRollface said:
So dramatic. Yet so off base. Please don't weep.

How much time do you think Kyle Korver spends working on his dribble drive game? JJ Redick?

Seriously, how do you think guys become catch and shoot players? By doing it over and over and over.

Working on weaknesses is something that is great if theres realistic potential for it to be a part of your game.

Adam Woodbury has a big weakness as a 3 point shooter? Should he work on that?

You only have so much time to work on things. Jok has only two years of basketball left and after two years of college he has shown very little ability to get all the way to the rim and finish. Has had lots of tos though.

He would be much better served to spend the majority of his time learning how to run defenders off screens and perfecting his catch, turn and release mechanics.
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I think you will look at this in a couple days and wonder what you were thinking. Jok shoots over 90% from the line. We need him getting to the line...by driving. And Jok was a great finisher as a freshman in high school before his health issues. So the potential is definitely there.
 
Yea Jok will be scoring from all over the court before he's done at iowa. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
 
RocknRollface said:
I'm not saying he has to only shoot threes or should never put the ball on the floor.

I realize everyone has to be able to put the ball on the floor at times.

And I'm not saying he's only a spot up guy but he's a jump shooter not a slasher. He's the best jump shooter we've had since Gatens. Most of his shots from 2 are still jump shots. if he could become a guy who can run off screens and get open without the ball that's where he could be exceptional.
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Uthoff gets most of his scoring through jump shots as well. Uthoff shot better from 3 than Jok, so you must think that Uthoff should just be a spot up shooter as well?

The fact is Jok is a wing, and he will be better next year in ALL aspects of the game, and that is a good thing, cause Iowa needs well rounded players on the court, not just 3 pt specialist who can only shoot coming off screens.
 
WindsorHawk said:
I think you will look at this in a couple days and wonder what you were thinking. Jok shoots over 90% from the line. We need him getting to the line...by driving. And Jok was a great finisher as a freshman in high school before his health issues. So the potential is definitely there.
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Most good 3pt shooters are also great freethrow shooters.

6 years ago as a freshman in highschool doesn't matter anymore.

Hes not explosive, not a very good ball handler, not a good finisher, and he has a tendency to make poor decisions with his passes.

He would be much better served to work on moving without the ball and coming off screens to get jump shots and being very selective about when he decides to take it to the hole vs trying to be a guy who attacks the basket.
 
deanvogs said:
Uthoff gets most of his scoring through jump shots as well. Uthoff shot better from 3 than Jok, so you must think that Uthoff should just be a spot up shooter as well?

The fact is Jok is a wing, and he will be better next year in ALL aspects of the game, and that is a good thing, cause Iowa needs well rounded players on the court, not just 3 pt specialist who can only shoot coming off screens.
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Well first off, I already clearly differentiated between jump shooter and spot up shooter. So the staw man is a waste of time.

Shots off screens can be from 2 just as much as 3.

Uthoff IS primarily a jump shooter, the overwhelming majority of his shots from 2 are also jump shots just like Jok. However he is much better at finishing at the rim than Jok and rarely turns the ball over.

Its not the fact that Jok is a good shooter that makes me want to see him not attempt to get to the rim, its the fact that he is not good at getting to the rim or finishing there, and has a ton of turnover when he tires it.

His game is what it is, Im not just making stuff up.

If he suddenly becomes proficient at taking people off the dribble, then great. To me it seems logical that his strengths and weaknesses lend them selves to a different approach.
 
RocknRollface said:
Most good 3pt shooters are also great freethrow shooters.

6 years ago as a freshman in highschool doesn't matter anymore.

Hes not explosive, not a very good ball handler, not a good finisher, and he has a tendency to make poor decisions with his passes.

He would be much better served to work on moving without the ball and coming off screens to get jump shots and being very selective about when he decides to take it to the hole vs trying to be a guy who attacks the basket.
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All these are reasons I think Jok will see some significant SF minutes next year. His ball-handling won't be on display as much there and he did show some rebounding ability earlier in the year. But Fran has a record of improving decision-making in several players. Which makes me think Jok will be a swing guy for the rest of his career.
 
clicheusername3 said:
If Peter Jok isn't starting from day one until day last day of the season he either got booted off the team or his foot is in a boot.
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Um, apparently you have not seen PJ play too much. The guy suffers from ADD on defense. And ADHD on offense.

That is blatant...

Give the guy some ADD meds and he will shine. And I am 100% serious.

That said what I mentioned is 100% obvious...
 
Wagner is probably gonna have to play back up 5. Didn't mel basabe have to play some five at one time too?

1 Mike Gesell/Williams/Moss
2 Clemmons/Flemming
3 Jok/Uhl/Huttons/Moss
4 Uthoff/Uhl/Juco
5 Wood/Wagner
 
RocknRollface said:
Well first off, I already clearly differentiated between jump shooter and spot up shooter. So the staw man is a waste of time.

Shots off screens can be from 2 just as much as 3.

Uthoff IS primarily a jump shooter, the overwhelming majority of his shots from 2 are also jump shots just like Jok. However he is much better at finishing at the rim than Jok and rarely turns the ball over.

Its not the fact that Jok is a good shooter that makes me want to see him not attempt to get to the rim, its the fact that he is not good at getting to the rim or finishing there, and has a ton of turnover when he tires it.

His game is what it is, Im not just making stuff up.

If he suddenly becomes proficient at taking people off the dribble, then great. To me it seems logical that his strengths and weaknesses lend them selves to a different approach.
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Gesell has avg. quickness at best compared to other PG, and he couldn't finish at the rim for 2 1/2 years.......but then he figured it out and has been great at finishing at the rim for the past 1/2 year. Jok doesn't have to be as quick as Gesell to get to the rim, cause he doesn't have PG guarding him, he has other wings guarding him.

I'll just leave it at this, Fran doesn't agree at all with your assessment. Jok is a wing in his system, and will continue to be a wing, and Fran is gonna develop Jok's all around game.
 
Fran can't teach Pete to jump higher. Fran can help Pete become a better ball handler. Pete, like all players, has a ceiling. Taking guys off the dribble and pulling up for a 8-10 ft jump shot is where I would like to see him continue to improve. I think he can be deadly in that facet of his game......and that is a lost art in college hoops.
 
The only thing besides Joks bone headed lapses that worry me is his knee. He really doesn't seem to have any explosiveness in it. He's not that fast and he may be the only 6'5 or 6'6 shooting guard that can't dunk... We all tease about Woody but I've honestly never seen Jok anywhere close to the rim. And I would think if your over 6'0 and playing D1 college basketball you should have the athleticism to dunk. I was 5'8 my jr yr of high school. I'm white have small hands and I could dunk back then. I've just never understood how players 5 to 10 inches taller then me with longer arms etc couldn't dunk....
So I think if Joks knee can closer to 100 % maybe he'll have more explosiveness and confidence in his game
 
Hawkfnntn said:
The only thing besides Joks bone headed lapses that worry me is his knee. He really doesn't seem to have any explosiveness in it. He's not that fast and he may be the only 6'5 or 6'6 shooting guard that can't dunk... We all tease about Woody but I've honestly never seen Jok anywhere close to the rim. And I would think if your over 6'0 and playing D1 college basketball you should have the athleticism to dunk. I was 5'8 my jr yr of high school. I'm white have small hands and I could dunk back then. I've just never understood how players 5 to 10 inches taller then me with longer arms etc couldn't dunk....
So I think if Joks knee can closer to 100 % maybe he'll have more explosiveness and confidence in his game
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Pete can certainly dunk, there's a difference between can't and doesn't.
 
deanvogs said:
Gesell has avg. quickness at best compared to other PG, and he couldn't finish at the rim for 2 1/2 years.......but then he figured it out and has been great at finishing at the rim for the past 1/2 year. Jok doesn't have to be as quick as Gesell to get to the rim, cause he doesn't have PG guarding him, he has other wings guarding him.

I'll just leave it at this, Fran doesn't agree at all with your assessment. Jok is a wing in his system, and will continue to be a wing, and Fran is gonna develop Jok's all around game.
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And I'll say this, Jok is a 2 guard. The same position that Matt Gattens and Josh Ogelsby played when they ran off screens allot.

Your position does not determine what sets are run for you or how you're used, ability does.

Whatever Fran's opinion on how he wants to use Jok, you saying "Fran doesn't agree" is simply your opinion.
 
deanvogs said:
Gesell has avg. quickness at best compared to other PG, and he couldn't finish at the rim for 2 1/2 years.......but then he figured it out and has been great at finishing at the rim for the past 1/2 year. Jok doesn't have to be as quick as Gesell to get to the rim, cause he doesn't have PG guarding him, he has other wings guarding him.

I'll just leave it at this, Fran doesn't agree at all with your assessment. Jok is a wing in his system, and will continue to be a wing, and Fran is gonna develop Jok's all around game.
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And saying Gessel figured it out is a pretty big over simplification.

Yes he improved but he didn't have nearly as far to go.

Jok has a quick first step but simply isn't fast after the first couple steps, it's why he' struggles with defense too.

Gessel actually has good physical tools, he has the highest vertical on the team from I've heard. Or atleast did, Uhl might have him beat now.

Mikes main problem was/is that he's not very deceptive with handle or with his eyes.
 
RocknRollface said:
And I'll say this, Jok is a 2 guard. The same position that Matt Gattens and Josh Ogelsby played when they ran off screens allot.

Your position does not determine what sets are run for you or how you're used, ability does.

Whatever Fran's opinion on how he wants to use Jok, you saying "Fran doesn't agree" is simply your opinion.
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Marble was the 2 guard for the previous 2 years. Just watch some games, and be honest with yourself, does Fran use Jok like he does Ogs?

Listen we just disagree on this, go ahead and get the last word, I'm done with it, you are a solid poster, and the only pizzing match I need to be in around here is with Foreverd0uche.
 
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I don't think it's Jok's explosiveness that's the problem, i think it's his handle. Dribbling doesn't come natural to him so he has to focus on dribbling instead of where he's going. Lack of dribbling ability really limits what you can do after you get by your man.
 
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