MLB - AL MVP
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hawkfarmer
Well-Known Member
I think you have to go with Cabrera. I mean there is a high percent chance of him winning the Triple Crown and he got his team to the playoffs. Tough to go against that.
This seriously should not even be close. Trout in a rout. People are finally starting to realize that there is more to baseball than what is done in the batters box. Depending on whether you look at Baseballreference WAR or Fangraphs War, Trout has been either 4 or 3 wins better than Cabrera with 1 month less playing time. Saving runs defensively, and creating runs on the basebaths are worth just as much as runs created on hits. If Cabrera wins the Triple Crown he will get the MVP, but still will not deserve it by a long shot. Trout is seriously a once in a generation type player. He's 20 and he's by far the best player in the game.
Actually yeah he would more than deserve it to say otherwise is just silly.
Silly huh? Ok, well Trout won the triple crown too. He led in Runs, Stolen bases, and WAR. Now we're even on statistical leadership of 3 completely arbitrary statistics. Trout wins the tie breaker by being better at baseball. Trout saved his team 13.3 runs defensively while Cabrera cost his team 9.3 runs defensively. That's a 22 run difference defensively. Trout created 6.8 runs on the basebaths while Cabrera cost his team 2.3 runs by clogging the basebaths. That's a 9.1 run difference. You're talking about a 33 run differential when you bring in defense and baserunning which, last I checked, were very important parts of the game. The only silly thing is to ignore 2/3 of the game and give a guy the MVP because he led the league in 3 categories while being a liability in the field and on the basebaths.
woodyk1
Well-Known Member
This is the argument stated very well. I think Cabrera will win, but I would vote for Trout because of his overall game (and a little bit of bias because he played here in CR). WAR is becoming more accepted as a stat, so we will see how it affects this race.
hawkfarmer
Well-Known Member
While I think Trout is really good, he is doing it on a loaded team that honestly underachieved. He hasn't played all season, which makes his numbers that much more intriguing, but a guy that wins the Triple crown and basically brings his team into the playoffs wins it. I see your argument but I think it is Cabrera this year.
Would the Tigers be in the playoffs or even close without Cabrera? Probably not. His numbers are ridiculous. You have to give it to him. The Angels look like they will miss the playoffs even with Pujols, Hunter, Weaver, Greinke, Haren, Wilson etc. Trout has been spectacular don't get me wrong, but a Triple Crown is an accomplishment you cannot overlook and coupled with the fact he is doing it with the Pennant race on his shoulders is amazing. Other things on the field matter for sure, but all the Sabermetrics stuff is getting a little carried away in my opinion. The hardest thing to do in sports still is hitting a baseball, and Cabrera has done that better than anyone.
On April 28th, the day Trout got called up, the Angels were in last place. Since that day the Angels have the best record in all of baseball. Coincidence? I think not. I'd say the 10.3 wins that he has personally contributed have a huge bit to do with that. In any other season a triple crown by Cabrera would deserve it. Just so happens that he ran up against one of the greatest seasons in the history of the game by Trout.
woodyk1
Well-Known Member
Actually, this might help Trout's case. What if he started the season with the Angels? There were 6-14 when he came up on April 28. That means they are 83-57 since he came up (89-71 now). That's pretty good.
hawkfarmer
Well-Known Member
To me it is this: Cabrera was great and willed his team to the playoffs while putting up these numbers. he had others, but without him they would not have been a .500 team
With Trout: Great player on a great team that can't make the playoffs.
With Trout: Great player on a great team that can't make the playoffs.
hawkfarmer
Well-Known Member
I know it. I said it makes it that much more intriguing and I think if he plays the whole year they make the playoffs and then i say he wins it, but he didn't and they aren't playing in Oct. so to me that is the difference.
woodyk1
Well-Known Member
I see the argument for Cabrera. I just don't think it was Trout's fault the Angels didn't bring him up right away, but he did struggle a bit in 2011. It will be interesting and I think the Tigers making the playoffs may push Cabrera over the top.
woodyk1
Well-Known Member
Probably true. Interesting fact ... there have been 11 Triple Crown winners since the MVP award also existed. 6 of the Triple Crown winners also won MVP, 5 did not (including Ted Williams twice - probably because sportswriters hated him and also Joe Dimaggio). Info in link below.
Triple Crown of Baseball by Baseball Almanac
hawkfarmer
Well-Known Member
Agreed, agreed. I know the WAR stat is important etc, but to me Cabrera got his team to the playoffs and that is what makes it for me.
Yeah he led the league in 3 categories that hasn't been done in an extremely long time, while helping his team get to the playoffs. While Trout had a ton more talent around him on his team and they didn't get it done.
OUTofTOWNHAWK
Well-Known Member
Im a Tigers fan and have watched all but maybe 10 games.
Cabrera is a great third baseman hes not just some DH. He also runs the bases very smart for a big man. To say hes holding up his team on the base path is dumb. Also one of the better third basemen in the league. Yeah you dont see him rob home runs but doesnt mean any number of diving stops thats hes made hasnt saved the game.
Yes it is silly to say trout should win. Its not even close. The only reason for trout to win is if they want the rookie story.
Cabrera is a great third baseman hes not just some DH. He also runs the bases very smart for a big man. To say hes holding up his team on the base path is dumb. Also one of the better third basemen in the league. Yeah you dont see him rob home runs but doesnt mean any number of diving stops thats hes made hasnt saved the game.
Yes it is silly to say trout should win. Its not even close. The only reason for trout to win is if they want the rookie story.
HAHA Sorry bro, you lost all credibility when you called Cabrera a great third baseman. He was the 3rd worst 3b in all of baseball defensively behind only Pacheco and Hanley Ramirez. He was a crappy 1b that had to move to 3rd because they brought in an even fatter 1b.
