MLB - AL MVP

[1977Hawkeye]

Except that 6 of the last 7 Triple Crown winners haven't won the MVP so, I guess there's 6 years in which you can find answers. My guess?? There were better all around players than the triple crown winner.

Interesting stuff. Ok, so I guess winning a trouble crown isn't a guarantee of an MVP, but try this one on for size regarding Ted Williams and his two triple crowns:

1947 AL	Ted Williams	BOS .343, 32 HR, 114 RBI
1942 AL	Ted Williams	BOS .356, 36 HR, 137 RBI

And this is who Williams was beaten out by in the MVP voting:

1942 Joe Gordon .322/18/103 79 walks
1942 Ted Williams .356/36/137 145 walks

1947 Joe Dimaggio .315/20/97 64 walks
1947 Ted Williams .343/32/114 162 walks

I know Williams wasn't great defensively, but you might note that the two winners in 1942 & 1947 both played for the Yankees, and in years in which NY won the World Series, despite having considerably less stats. MVP voting is sometimes also a popularity contest, not always who the better player was, and Ted Williams was no media darling. Was Joe Gordon REALLY better than Ted Williams in 1942? It's hard to make that case.

(It's much closer between Cabrera & Trout, though)

 

[hawkfan33]

What happened in previous years is 100% irrelevant to this year or in other eras (Carew). A batting title is still a batting title. It's what Cabrera has done relative to the rest of the league THIS YEAR (not compared to his own stats in previous years) that matters.

And since you bring up OPS:

Trout - .958
Cabrera - 1.002

And if this was a debate about who should win the Silver Slugger, I would side with Cabrera, but since defense and baserunning should also be considered

Trout>Cabrera

 

[theboat]

Interesting stuff. Ok, so I guess winning a trouble crown isn't a guarantee of an MVP, but try this one on for size regarding Ted Williams and his two triple crowns:

1947 AL	Ted Williams	BOS .343, 32 HR, 114 RBI
1942 AL	Ted Williams	BOS .356, 36 HR, 137 RBI

And this is who Williams was beaten out by in the MVP voting:

1942 Joe Gordon .322/18/103 79 walks
1942 Ted Williams .356/36/137 145 walks

1947 Joe Dimaggio .315/20/97 64 walks
1947 Ted Williams .343/32/114 162 walks

I know Williams wasn't great defensively, but you might note that the two winners in 1942 & 1947 both played for the Yankees, and in years in which NY won the World Series, despite having considerably less stats. MVP voting is sometimes also a popularity contest, not always who the better player was, and Ted Williams was no media darling. Was Joe Gordon REALLY better than Ted Williams in 1942? It's hard to make that case.

(It's much closer between Cabrera & Trout, though)

Ted Williams got jobbed.

 

[woodyk1]

Ted Williams got jobbed.

and was not well liked by sportswriters back then.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

and was not well liked by sportswriters back then.

True. The sportswriters jobbed him.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

And if this was a debate about who should win the Silver Slugger, I would side with Cabrera, but since defense and baserunning should also be considered

Trout>Cabrera

Offensively, Cabrera > Trout. Defensively & Baserunning, Trout > Cabrera. It seems to me like it's not really clear cut.

How do you really quantify who was more valuable to their teams? Which team suffers more without them? (It's impossible to really know for sure).

Guess I view it as a pretty close vote. I still vote Cabrera, but won't be able to really argue if Trout wins, either.

 

[Travisam]

Offensively, Cabrera > Trout. Defensively & Baserunning, Trout > Cabrera. It seems to me like it's not really clear cut.

How do you really quantify who was more valuable to their teams? Which team suffers more without them? (It's impossible to really know for sure).

Guess I view it as a pretty close vote. I still vote Cabrera, but won't be able to really argue if Trout wins, either.

Who said it is most valuable to their team? It's the most valuable player of the League. AL MVP, NL MVP. They way you quantify that is through statistics. The statistics say that Trout was FAR more valuable than Cabrera. It's not even close. In the same manner you use stats that are used offensively in the triple crown, stats are available for defense and baserunning. You add those all together and determine who is more of a valuable player. This season it was Trout in an absolute landslide. Not just between Trout and Cabrera, but between Trout and anyone in either league.

 

[Section136]

Wouldn't wins above replacement be a fairly important component when figuring value? I think so.

 

[OUTofTOWNHAWK]

Out..with your keen eye of defensive skill lol.....Tell me this...

We know that Miggy is a "great 3b"...


How was Brandon Inge as a 3b defensively over his career in Detroit?
How would you rate Boesch defensively?
And how would you rate Peralta defensively?

Inge average 3rd, better catcher. He could play every position thats why he was there.
Boesch not a good outfielder only plays because of his bat. Hasnt played in awhile as his average is down.
Peralta good shortstop. Quick hands. Low amounts of errors. Pretty good range. Offense needs work.

Miggy average range, very high baseball IQ, maybe the strongest arm of any third basement in the league.

Did I say great? Ill take back great if thats what I said. Good yes. He is good.

 

[djwoody98]

Cabrera will win the Triple Crown for the first time since when '67? He wins. Trout is a freak and I love to watch him play, but the Tigers won their division and he should win. That doesn't mean Trout isn't a special player, he is.

 

[HawkeyeShane]

I voted Cabrera...possible Triple Crown and his team's going to the playoffs...but if Trout wins it, I won't be bent out of shape. I could see this coming down to a Sosa vs. McGwire, steroid induced battle in '98, when Sosa got the NL MVP and McGwire won MLB Player of The Year.

 

[Travisam]

Inge average 3rd, better catcher. He could play every position thats why he was there.
Boesch not a good outfielder only plays because of his bat. Hasnt played in awhile as his average is down.
Peralta good shortstop. Quick hands. Low amounts of errors. Pretty good range. Offense needs work.

Miggy average range, very high baseball IQ, maybe the strongest arm of any third basement in the league.

Did I say great? Ill take back great if thats what I said. Good yes. He is good.

Inge was a fantastic 3b. One of the best in the league every year.
Peralta has been a top 3-5 SS in all of baseball last 2 years.
Boesch is a terrible OF. The only player on the team who was close to him in awful fielding?? Your boy Miguel Cabrera who was the 3rd worst defensive 3b in all of baseball. He's not great, he's not good, he's terrible defensively.

Clearly your baseball eye is very strong. Are you a scout for the Cubs by chance?

 

[woodyk1]

Inge average 3rd, better catcher. He could play every position thats why he was there.
Boesch not a good outfielder only plays because of his bat. Hasnt played in awhile as his average is down.
Peralta good shortstop. Quick hands. Low amounts of errors. Pretty good range. Offense needs work.

Miggy average range, very high baseball IQ, maybe the strongest arm of any third basement in the league.

Did I say great? Ill take back great if thats what I said. Good yes. He is good.

Now, here's an explanation of the advanced stats and where Cabrera rates from the link below:

The eye test doesn't reveal Cabrera to be a total disaster at third base, and he does have a fairly nifty .966 fielding percentage. So why all the complaints?

Because for the sabermetrics crowd, this is like pointing to Cabrera's RBI count as a tell-tale sign of his value. Fielding percentage is even worse in many ways, as it gives a fielder credit for making easy plays while only docking him points if he makes an error. The truth is that a fielder doesn't need to make an error in order for him to not make a play he should have made.

This is why we have things like Ultimate Zone Rating and Defensive Runs Saved, both of which are tracked by FanGraphs. UZR uses play-by-play data to determine how many "theoretical" runs a fielder saves or costs his team. DRS does something very similar, measuring a player's defensive quality in terms of how many runs below- or above-average he is.

Sorry for boring you if you've heard all this before, but the point is that these metrics suggest...no, scream that Cabrera is a bad fielder. He ranks dead-last among AL third baseman with a UZR of -9.2, and he also has a DRS of -4.

Would the Triple Crown Make Miguel Cabrera the New Top Player in MLB? | Bleacher Report