GrandpaHawk
Well-Known Member
And That's Why We Play The Game Hawks Win I Love It I Love It Nice to see we are a Basketball School Again Fun To Watch
Michigan State and Iowa - two best teams in the Big Ten
- Thread starter Bigtenchamp
- Start date
DP5555
Well-Known Member
SonofaSailor.... No need to be so dramatic. I just read through the entire thread and it doesnt sound to me like anyone is saying anything outlandish. You're just being a bit douchy. Hawk fans are enjoying Hawk victories. Hawk fans are enjoying the fact that Fran has put us in contention to be considered one of the best teams in the conference. What's the big deal that people are enjoying it?
Tm... I don't think Iowa's bigs are better than MSU's, but the Hawks certainly have more depth. Which can be a huge benefit when it comes to fatigue and foul trouble. For that reason alone I give Iowa the slight edge.
Tm... I don't think Iowa's bigs are better than MSU's, but the Hawks certainly have more depth. Which can be a huge benefit when it comes to fatigue and foul trouble. For that reason alone I give Iowa the slight edge.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
I recognize we've got more depth, I just don't put as much weight into that when comparing it to what MSU brings up front. Dawson averages 10 points, but he's more than capable of going off for 20 or more if necessary. He's very talented, he just happens to share the floor with Payne, Harris and Appling.
I think you can count on Payne playing and being ready to go. Dawson's issue has been being mentally ready to go. That won't be an issue. Certainly some of their other bigs have shown flashes of being difference makers. I'm all for enjoying a victory, but I choose to temper my enthusiasm with a dose of reality as well. It will be a big hill for the Hawkeye's to climb to pull out a win, even at home.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
And if one of them gets into foul trouble what happens? I'd say it's a wash if fouls aren't an issue. However, considering the fact more fouls are being called this year combined with the way Iowa attacks the basket I think it's something you have got to consider.
SonofaSailor
Well-Known Member
I laugh at people who think MSU will be in foul trouble...remember the BTT? Or the Wisky game from a couple of weeks back? This will be a physical mugging...and Iowa can either complain about it and get thrown out...or answer the punch.
Maybe to the outside world MSU history matters for this year but someone who follows the hawks as closely as most on this board do should see that's the hawks are clearly on the same level as MSU THIS year. Why should people on a Hawkeye message board give a rats *** about MSU's history when discussing who's better this year?
WinOneThisCentury
Well-Known Member
Peoples comments are funny. The reality is, we won't know how we match up with Michigan's athleticism or MSU's bigs until we play them for the first time. Match ups are hard to figure until you see it live and in person. I really didn't think watching Minny play MSU or OSU that they were that athletic. I thought we would run by them and get more in transition or on the fast breaks...and I certainly didn't think they would be as good on the boards as they were. Different teams match up differently and until you go through the league once, it's tough to say how things will shake out.
Going into Michigan, I'm really interested to see how we match up with Lavert, StausKISS, and Robinson...who's guarding who? All those guys are 6'6" or 6'7". Basabe may have to play Robinson. This is a very intriguing match up for Iowa. Fun stuff.
Going into Michigan, I'm really interested to see how we match up with Lavert, StausKISS, and Robinson...who's guarding who? All those guys are 6'6" or 6'7". Basabe may have to play Robinson. This is a very intriguing match up for Iowa. Fun stuff.
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
I agree it's fun. I'm glad there's even a debate...
Bigtenchamp
Well-Known Member
this might be funny if anyone actually was saying anything like that.... instead you make two posts in a row like this that you think are knee slappers.
Bigtenchamp
Well-Known Member
last years team has no where near the polish, depth, experience as this year... and in my mind MSU team last year much better then there team this year.... and again I'm not saying were better
Quite simply its very logical and reasonable to say we have the advantage down low.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
Not when this year's team is healthy, it isn't. Harris is playing at a higher level and Appling has been playing at an out of his mind, B1G POY level. Nix wasn't an insignificant piece of the puzzle last year, but their other pieces are better now than they were a year ago. It's just a question of health.
We're better, too, which is why I'm expecting games very similar to last year's. They're going to be very tight games from start to finish, instant classic-types.
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
Michigan State - Payne 16.2 & 7.7 - Dawson 10.1 & 8.7 - Kaminski 5.6 & 1.2 - Costello 3.4 & 3.4 = 35.3 & 21.0
Iowa - White 13.8 & 6.6 - Uthoff 10.3 & 5.8 - Basabe 7.8 & 6.8 - McCabe 7.1 & 3.3 - Olaseni 5.9 & 4.9 - Woodbury 5.7 & 4.1 = 50.6 & 31.5
So Iowa is +15.3 points and + 10.5 rebounds
Iowa - White 13.8 & 6.6 - Uthoff 10.3 & 5.8 - Basabe 7.8 & 6.8 - McCabe 7.1 & 3.3 - Olaseni 5.9 & 4.9 - Woodbury 5.7 & 4.1 = 50.6 & 31.5
So Iowa is +15.3 points and + 10.5 rebounds
sportstalent
Well-Known Member
One of my coworkers is a down to Earth Sparty fan and the only guys he thinks can truly play are Appling, Harris and Payne. His thought is that if anyone else tries to do anything exceptional...Dawson, in particular...MSU gets hurt.
He really dislikes Dawson a lot. He does not feel they are a top 5 team today. Lack of depth because on injuries and they have to get Payne back to be able to win tough games. He does not think they should be struggling the way they have, but knows every win not being healthy is huge for them.
He really dislikes Dawson a lot. He does not feel they are a top 5 team today. Lack of depth because on injuries and they have to get Payne back to be able to win tough games. He does not think they should be struggling the way they have, but knows every win not being healthy is huge for them.
sportstalent
Well-Known Member
Numbers are just that, let's get through Michigan and Northwestern before these numbers matter, which until the ball bounces they don't.
HawkfaninWA
Well-Known Member
Not sure why you averaged their 4 to our 6. Of course our numbers will be better when you do that.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
Iowa was +6.1 ppg and +3.7 rebounds last year (and I'd bet the numbers were more heavily skewed in Iowa's favor at the time of the first meeting, since the stats were still heavy on the OOC games), and Michigan State didn't have any trouble matching up with us inside (not to mention the fact that Dawson completely shut White down).
We handled Minnesota inside, but their biggest weakness is inside. MSU had no trouble with Minnesota inside, either; the frontcourt guys outscored Minnesota 30-18 and outrebounded them 21-16. They also had 6 blocked shots. And Payne didn't even play.
I really don't see the shame in admitting that, despite statistical advantages in Iowa's favor going into the game, Michigan State can match up inside. We've got depth, but unless MSU gets in foul trouble with Payne and Dawson (and this is MSU we're talking about here; that's hardly a given, even in Carver), they'll be able to match alright. Plus, who's to say that WE won't get into foul trouble? Gabe, Woody and Mel all have a tendency to do just that, and they'll be drawing Payne a lot of the time, which means foul trouble is a definite possibility for them.
We aren't going to see 4 of our inside guys on the floor at the same time, and Dawson will almost certainly draw responsibility for White/Uthoff, which he's more than capable of handling. Uthoff is going to have to step up his game (averaging 7.6 ppg and 3 rpg in conference play), because Dawson will likely be on White whenever both are on the floor. Payne will have the advantage against any of the three guys we might throw at him (Woody, Gabe and Mel); he'll be one of the two best interior players on the floor, if not the best, at all times.
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
This is very simple. The number of minutes in a game is fixed. There are 80 total minutes available at the 4 and the 5. I took the 4 players they use at those positions and the 6 players we use at those positions...only used guys averaging at least 10 minutes a game. Our depth is the whole reason I made this argument in the first place.