Michigan State and Iowa - two best teams in the Big Ten

[tm3308]

All of those guys spend way more time on the perimeter as 3's than they do in the paint.

Until proven otherwise, MSU is the best team in the B1G. Few teams in t country have the kind of firepower they do.[/QOTE]


I don't see why MSU should be handed the title of best team in the conference. MSU's best MIGHT be better than Iowa's best but Iowa's average and worst is better than MSU's average and worst. Iowa just has to many options to play really bad for extended periods of time.

I said, until proven otherwise. If they aren't the best, they're very close. And they're Michigan State, they've earned the benefit of the doubt after decades of excellence. We're still the new kids on the block right now.

I'm just not ready to say Iowa is better than a team they haven't played yet, when that team is also pretty damn good.

 

[WindsorHawk]

I disagree here. Dawson and Payne at MSU are just as good or better than everyone we've got in the paint.

If both teams are healthy, MSU is better than Iowa.

You can disagree if you like. However, you couldn't be more wrong. You are absolutely 100% wrong. Payne and Dawson collectively don't begin to compare to Woodbury, Olaseni, Basabe, White and Uthoff collectively. It's not even close.

 

[WindsorHawk]

I guess I'm more concerned with the fact that he's averaging 10 and 9 this year and shooting 60%. Payne is averaging 16 and 8. We've got depth, but Woody, Basabe and Gabe are combining to average 20 and 16. MSU can match up with us inside, to think they can't is pretty ridiculous.

Don't be obtuse. White, Uthoff and probably McCabe stats must be included. Your attempts to defend this position are ridiculous. I will pull this thread back up after the game and we'll compare the stats of Iowa's 6 guys to Michigan State's 2 guys and see which position on this was ridiculous. Spoiler...You lose.

 

[PCHawk]

I said, until proven otherwise. If they aren't the best, they're very close. And they're Michigan State, they've earned the benefit of the doubt after decades of excellence. We're still the new kids on the block right now.

I'm just not ready to say Iowa is better than a team they haven't played yet, when that team is also pretty damn good.

Not wanting to say Iowa is better is one thing but you said MSU is better. If you compare how we played against the teams we played to how they played against the teams that they've played, we clearly have looked better. Even if games played 10 years ago suggest otherwise.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

I said, until proven otherwise. If they aren't the best, they're very close. And they're Michigan State, they've earned the benefit of the doubt after decades of excellence. We're still the new kids on the block right now.


I'm just not ready to say Iowa is better than a team they haven't played yet, when that team is also pretty damn good.

I agree with tm.....let's see how Iowa does against the Michigan Schools before we start calling ourselves the top dog in the conference. Right now, I think Iowa is a strong 3rd or 4th best team in the conference....with certainly a chance to lay claim to the top 2 spots. Got to keep proving it.

 

[WindsorHawk]

Now im not even saying I'm so certain we are better I'm just saying we have the advantage on the inside.

Exactly! However, TM is losing this debate and now attempting to take it off in another direction.

 

[tm3308]

You can disagree if you like. However, you couldn't be more wrong. You are absolutely 100% wrong. Payne and Dawson collectively don't begin to compare to Woodbury, Olaseni, Basabe, White and Uthoff collectively. It's not even close.

Which would matter a lot more, if all of those guys were on the floor at the same time. But they aren't. And Payne/Dawson can match up with nearly any of our post guys.

We've faced three of the four worst teams in the conference in terms of post play. Michigan State is, and consistently has been, one of the best in that department. They're right there with us in rebounding, blocks and they're among conference leaders in paint scoring. Why on earth would anyone ever dare suggest a team like that might just match up with us inside?

 

[tm3308]

Don't be obtuse. White, Uthoff and probably McCabe stats must be included. Your attempts to defend this position are ridiculous. I will pull this thread back up after the game and we'll compare the stats of Iowa's 6 guys to Michigan State's 2 guys and see which position on this was ridiculous. Spoiler...You lose.

IOWA IS THE BEST TEAM EVER.


Seriously, the last two games have been great, but let's not put the cart before the horse here. People are just completely losing their minds right now. Michigan State is not going to be weak inside. If you're expecting otherwise, count on being disappointed.

 

[Jjgoiowa11]

IOWA IS THE BEST TEAM EVER.


Seriously, the last two games have been great, but let's not put the cart before the horse here. People are just completely losing their minds right now.

Most of us are just enjoying it. MSU was ranked #1 at one point and we're sitting here debating whether or not Iowa is top ten or #11. Quit being that guy that everyone wants to punch aka donald downer

 

[Bigtenchamp]

IOWA IS THE BEST TEAM EVER.


Seriously, the last two games have been great, but let's not put the cart before the horse here. People are just completely losing their minds right now. Michigan State is not going to be weak inside. If you're expecting otherwise, count on being disappointed.

lol nice try... no one is saying Iowa is the best team ever - I didn't even say I thought they were necessarily better than MSU.

I just said they have the advantage down low - which every reasonable thought and stat could clearly support.

 

[HawkeyeTech]

Which would matter a lot more, if all of those guys were on the floor at the same time. But they aren't. And Payne/Dawson can match up with nearly any of our post guys.

We've faced three of the four worst teams in the conference in terms of post play. Michigan State is, and consistently has been, one of the best in that department. They're right there with us in rebounding, blocks and they're among conference leaders in paint scoring. Why on earth would anyone ever dare suggest a team like that might just match up with us inside?

I don't think anyone has said they can't match up inside, they are just responding to your assertion that MSU is better. In my opinion, they match up evenly.

 

[PCHawk]

IOWA IS THE BEST TEAM EVER.


Seriously, the last two games have been great, but let's not put the cart before the horse here. People are just completely losing their minds right now. Michigan State is not going to be weak inside. If you're expecting otherwise, count on being disappointed.

Isn't saying MSU is better than Iowa until proven otherwise "putting the cart before the horse"?

 

[Bigtenchamp]

don't think anyone said they were "weak" inside either... I'm just saying to me it looks like Iowa has the advantage down low.

They may not have it overall who knows but down low statistically and depth wise we sure as helllll look like we have the advantage.

 

[OBhawk]

The road to the B1G title comes though Iowa City this year boys!

 

[tm3308]

Most of us are just enjoying it. MSU was ranked #1 at one point and we're sitting here debating whether or not Iowa is top ten or #11. Quit being that guy that everyone wants to punch aka donald downer

I'm enjoying today's win plenty. You can enjoy the win and still avoid claiming that MSU can't match up with us inside. I've said nothing to diminish today's win at all.

lol nice try... no one is saying Iowa is the best team ever - I didn't even say I thought they were necessarily better than MSU.

I just said they have the advantage down low - which every reasonable thought and stat could clearly support.

We had very similar advantages (on paper) last year, too. We led the conference in rebounding and had a slew of frontcourt guys capable of scoring -- more than MSU had. Yet MSU held their own just fine against us inside.

In two games last year, Iowa's forwards/centers were outscored by MSU's forwards/centers 77-75 (with 18 of Iowa's points coming on three-pointers), out-rebounded 45-43. Iowa held a 7-5 block advantage. White did nothing against MSU in those games (with Dawson covering him, for the most part); he averaged 8 ppg and 3 rpg.

Iowa holds a slight statistical edge among frontcourt players this year, but we've seen MSU prove that to be irrelevant in the past when it came time to prove it on the floor. I'm not ready to say MSU can't match up with us inside, when they've consistently done it in the past.

 

[tm3308]

Isn't saying MSU is better than Iowa until proven otherwise "putting the cart before the horse"?

Sure, but it's a lot more acceptable when you're talking about Tom Izzo and MSU than when you're talking about a program that has only become truly relevant in the last few months. MSU has a VERY strong track record. We don't.

 

[tm3308]

I don't think anyone has said they can't match up inside, they are just responding to your assertion that MSU is better. In my opinion, they match up evenly.

Windsor specifically said no one in the conference can match us inside.

 

[ssckelley]

MSU is going to kick our butts!

 

[tm3308]

MSU is going to kick our butts!

I don't think that, either. But I don't think either team holds a commanding edge in any area. That's why they're both top-10 caliber.

 

[SonofaSailor]

IOWA IS THE BEST TEAM EVER.


Seriously, the last two games have been great, but let's not put the cart before the horse here. People are just completely losing their minds right now. Michigan State is not going to be weak inside. If you're expecting otherwise, count on being disappointed.

Get your logic out of here! This Iowa team is easily one of the top 25 in the history of college basketball...and Fran is slightly ahead of Naismith and below Wooden.