Merged - Big 12 Aftermath Thread

[ssckelley]

I saw an article that suggested the Big 12 should invite North Dakota State

I think I just read the article you were referring too, it was on Yahoo. Inviting a FCS school would be a real stupid thing to do. There is no benefit to a conference that is trying to re-establish themselves as a power conference inviting a school like NDSU, except losing to them wouldn't be losing to a FCS school anymore.

 

[ssckelley]

As to the rivalry thing, I'm honestly just confused. Maybe you and I just have a different outlook here but I don't think they matter at all which we've seen play out. A&M had great rivalries in the Big 12 and couldn't wait to get out. Nebraska had very good ongoing rivalries with OU, CU, and KSU, and they dumped them like a bad habit. Mizzou and KU was one of the most weirdly intense rivalries in the country and nada. I honestly think rivalries are meaningless when it comes to realignment.

Ok, I'll simplify it. When it comes to TV network appeal, Iowa State has nothing.

 

[BryceC]

Ok, I'll simplify it. When it comes to TV network appeal, Iowa State has nothing.

I mean that might be true but I don't think the lack of rivalries has anything to do with that to be honest. If ISU was good, they would be viewed more, as 2020 proved.

 

[BigD]

Iowa state fans can look on the bright side. You might have a once of a lifetime season this year.

Then a mid tier team from the SEC or PAC 10 comes along and buys out your coach.

Opps I guess that is not a bright future after all.

Why is not hard to imagine six Iowa State fans sitting around in a circle playing Russian roulette with six bullets in the chamber. The only rule being that after each turn a bullet is added.

 

[ssckelley]

I mean that might be true but I don't think the lack of rivalries has anything to do with that to be honest. If ISU was good, they would be viewed more, as 2020 proved.

From your perspective I can completely understand where you are coming from.

 

[BryceC]

Ok, I'll simplify it. When it comes to TV network appeal, Iowa State has nothing.

Finally this is what I absolutely hate about college sports right now. There was a ton of "the Big 10 should get USC and UCLA!" UCLA only has value because of where the university is located. They had a game with fairly big ratings against USC last year (3.24 million viewers) but also had games with 234K viewers, 312K viewers, 596K viewers, 428K viewers, etc.

They had probably 10k fans actually at their game on Saturday. They only have like 25k season ticket holders. Nobody freaking cares about UCLA sports, including their own fans. Everything is just geared around schools with historical success or around big population centers. Schools with passionate and sizable fanbases just get talked about like they are trash, while there are just heaps of schools like UCLA or Rutgers or South Carolina whose own fans don't care and will be fine due to previous conference ties or are close to a big metro. That's it.

And for the record I'm not comparing ISU and Iowa's fan bases. I've said it a million times Iowa has a very special fanbase. But ISU has a very good fanbase, especially compared to 30 or so teams that are sitting around without a care in the world right now.

 

[ssckelley]

Finally this is what I absolutely hate about college sports right now. There was a ton of "the Big 10 should get USC and UCLA!" UCLA only has value because of where the university is located. They had a game with fairly big ratings against USC last year (3.24 million viewers) but also had games with 234K viewers, 312K viewers, 596K viewers, 428K viewers, etc.

They had probably 10k fans actually at their game on Saturday. They only have like 25k season ticket holders. Nobody freaking cares about UCLA sports, including their own fans. Everything is just geared around schools with historical success or around big population centers. Schools with passionate and sizable fanbases just get talked about like they are trash, while there are just heaps of schools like UCLA or Rutgers or South Carolina whose own fans don't care and will be fine due to previous conference ties or are close to a big metro. That's it.

And for the record I'm not comparing ISU and Iowa's fan bases. I've said it a million times Iowa has a very special fanbase. But ISU has a very good fanbase, especially compared to 30 or so teams that are sitting around without a care in the world right now.

I understand where you are coming from but the appeal of UCLA and USC to the Big Ten is carriage fees. The BTN gets a much smaller carriage fee for those markets since they don't have a team there, if they did they make like triple off of each TV set or subscriber. The only reason why Rutgers is in the Big Ten today is because of this exact reason, the BTN can now charge the entire New York market the high carriage fee. Very few people in New York care about college football let alone Rutgers.

 

[Fryowa]

You guys can discuss TV viewership and attendance all you want, but the real reason no one is pursuing Iowa State is because it has absolutely no brand recognition outside of Iowa.

And they're not proven whatsoever. For chrissakes the guy wins 9 games and all of a sudden they're the next Alabama if you hear their fans talk.

For you ISU folks...how the hell are you any different than Minnesota having a fluke year in 2019? Your team has been absolute garbage for 120 years, and you expect a P4 conference to come knocking on your door because (ONE TIME) you have a season that most top 15 football programs would call average? In a trash conference? You want a P4 conference invitation based on a SINGLE 9 win season with the justification that a whole lot of your alumni come to games and watch it on TV in Iowa? Get real.

Instead of telling people how UCLA and USC and Rutgers and whoever else shouldn't be a P4 team, tell us why ISU should be a P4 team. Sell the idea. It's telling that the only reason any of your fans can give for conference admittance is TV viewership (ALL within the borders of Iowa except for their opponents), and comparisons of other schools' attendance. If the only way you can advocate for something is to bring up that other teams suck worse than yours, rather than listing deserving accomplishments and circumstances that says something. Nobody can give a scenario where a conference increases it's value rather than diluting it by adding ISU. News flash, if ISU could add value to a conference they'd be sought out by now.

You think national advertisers give two shits if 800,000 people in Iowa, USA are watching the game? Good god no. They'll take 500,000 UCLA viewers scattered all over the country any day. Those ad execs have never even heard of ISU let alone know if their mascot is a tornado or a bird.

And like I've said before, the national branding thing is crucial. You guys have changed your logo and mascot and colors a hundred times in the past 20 years and really screwed the pooch. Are your colors red and yellow, or red and white, or black and white? Or red and blue and white? I remember that one too at one point. And are you guys officially a bird or a tornado? Or is it a combination of a bird and tornado like you had in 2000 or whenever? Iowa might suck at football but anyone in the country knows our logo. Same with Tennessee, and Texas, and UCLA, and USC...

 

[okeefe4prez]

I honestly think rivalries are meaningless when it comes to realignment.

I respectfully disagree. Rivalries involving shitty teams or teams with small fan bases are meaningless, but big time rivalries still drive the economics of college ball.

You guys can discuss TV viewership and attendance all you want, but the real reason no one is pursuing Iowa State is because it has absolutely no brand recognition outside of Iowa.

And they're not proven whatsoever. For chrissakes the guy wins 9 games and all of a sudden they're the next Alabama if you hear their fans talk.

For you ISU folks...how the hell are you any different than Minnesota having a fluke year in 2019? Your team has been absolute garbage for 120 years, and you expect a P4 conference to come knocking on your door because (ONE TIME) you have a season that most top 15 football programs would call average? In a trash conference? You want a P4 conference invitation based on a SINGLE 9 win season with the justification that a whole lot of your alumni come to games and watch it on TV in Iowa? Get real.

Instead of telling people how UCLA and USC and Rutgers and whoever else shouldn't be a P4 team, tell us why ISU should be a P4 team. Sell the idea. It's telling that the only reason any of your fans can give for conference admittance is TV viewership (ALL within the borders of Iowa except for their opponents), and comparisons of other schools' attendance. If the only way you can advocate for something is to bring up that other teams suck worse than yours, rather than listing deserving accomplishments and circumstances that says something. Nobody can give a scenario where a conference increases it's value rather than diluting it by adding ISU. News flash, if ISU could add value to a conference they'd be sought out by now.

You think national advertisers give two shits if 800,000 people in Iowa, USA are watching the game? Good god no. They'll take 500,000 UCLA viewers scattered all over the country any day. Those ad execs have never even heard of ISU let alone know if their mascot is a tornado or a bird.

And like I've said before, the national branding thing is crucial. You guys have changed your logo and mascot and colors a hundred times in the past 20 years and really screwed the pooch. Are your colors red and yellow, or red and white, or black and white? Or red and blue and white? I remember that one too at one point. And are you guys officially a bird or a tornado? Or is it a combination of a bird and tornado like you had in 2000 or whenever? Iowa might suck at football but anyone in the country knows our logo. Same with Tennessee, and Texas, and UCLA, and USC...

Minnesota is historically a very storied program. Do not compare them to Iowa State.

 

[ssckelley]

You guys can discuss TV viewership and attendance all you want, but the real reason no one is pursuing Iowa State is because it has absolutely no brand recognition outside of Iowa.

And they're not proven whatsoever. For chrissakes the guy wins 9 games and all of a sudden they're the next Alabama if you hear their fans talk.

For you ISU folks...how the hell are you any different than Minnesota having a fluke year in 2019? Your team has been absolute garbage for 120 years, and you expect a P4 conference to come knocking on your door because (ONE TIME) you have a season that most top 15 football programs would call average? In a trash conference? You want a P4 conference invitation based on a SINGLE 9 win season with the justification that a whole lot of your alumni come to games and watch it on TV in Iowa? Get real.

Instead of telling people how UCLA and USC and Rutgers and whoever else shouldn't be a P4 team, tell us why ISU should be a P4 team. Sell the idea. It's telling that the only reason any of your fans can give for conference admittance is TV viewership (ALL within the borders of Iowa except for their opponents), and comparisons of other schools' attendance. If the only way you can advocate for something is to bring up that other teams suck worse than yours, rather than listing deserving accomplishments and circumstances that says something. Nobody can give a scenario where a conference increases it's value rather than diluting it by adding ISU. News flash, if ISU could add value to a conference they'd be sought out by now.

You think national advertisers give two shits if 800,000 people in Iowa, USA are watching the game? Good god no. They'll take 500,000 UCLA viewers scattered all over the country any day. Those ad execs have never even heard of ISU let alone know if their mascot is a tornado or a bird.

And like I've said before, the national branding thing is crucial. You guys have changed your logo and mascot and colors a hundred times in the past 20 years and really screwed the pooch. Are your colors red and yellow, or red and white, or black and white? Or red and blue and white? I remember that one too at one point. And are you guys officially a bird or a tornado? Or is it a combination of a bird and tornado like you had in 2000 or whenever? Iowa might suck at football but anyone in the country knows our logo. Same with Tennessee, and Texas, and UCLA, and USC...

The greatest single thing Hayden Fry did for Iowa was get Iowa the Tigerhawk. It elevated Iowa from a nobody to a brand that anyone who follows any college sports will recognize.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Schools with passionate and sizable fanbases just get talked about like they are trash, while there are just heaps of schools like UCLA or Rutgers or South Carolina whose own fans don't care and will be fine due to previous conference ties or are close to a big metro. That's it.

South Carolina fans care about football. Their fan base is at least 2x bigger than Clemson's or Iowa State's (ISU may have a bigger fan base than Clemson - it's probably close). Once you get 30 miles south of the upstate region, it is about 80% SC stuff and Georgia is probably the number 2 school. Even within an hour of Clemson, it's still over 1/3rd SC fans.

Point is, that program is absolutely nothing like Rutgers.

 

[Fryowa]

Minnesota is historically a very storied program. Do not compare them to Iowa State.

Like

 

[BryceC]

I understand where you are coming from but the appeal of UCLA and USC to the Big Ten is carriage fees. The BTN gets a much smaller carriage fee for those markets since they don't have a team there, if they did they make like triple off of each TV set or subscriber. The only reason why Rutgers is in the Big Ten today is because of this exact reason, the BTN can now charge the entire New York market the high carriage fee. Very few people in New York care about college football let alone Rutgers.

This was precisely my point. Teams that people actually don't care about will end up reaping huge rewards just because cable companies can extort people who live near them for more money.

 

[BryceC]

South Carolina fans care about football. Their fan base is at least 2x bigger than Clemson's or Iowa State's (ISU may have a bigger fan base than Clemson - it's probably close). Once you get 30 miles south of the upstate region, it is about 80% SC stuff and Georgia is probably the number 2 school. Even within an hour of Clemson, it's still over 1/3rd SC fans.

Point is, that program is absolutely nothing like Rutgers.

Good point, I'm wrong about SC. I was trying to just think of a team in each of the conferences and just landed there only because their program is in a bad spot right now. That wasn't fair, I should have gone for Vandy or something I just thought that was too obvious.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Good point, I'm wrong about SC. I was trying to just think of a team in each of the conferences and just landed there only because their program is in a bad spot right now. That wasn't fair, I should have gone for Vandy or something I just thought that was too obvious.

SC has been in a bad spot pretty much forever. They had a tinge of success about a decade ago, but that was literally the high water mark for their program. They've only been in the SEC since the '90's and I think they hadn't won a solitary bowl game until the mid '90's. I seriously think their program might be worse than ISU and with Georgia, Florida and Tennessee in their division and Clemson 90 minutes away there is absolutely no hope for them.

I've only been to one game and the atmosphere was insane, though. The ring of success or whatever inside the stadium highlighting accomplishments is the biggest joke I've ever seen. Seriously, Northwestern's is better. But the fan base, holy shit, it is intense.

 

[okeefe4prez]

This was precisely my point. Teams that people actually don't care about will end up reaping huge rewards just because cable companies can extort people who live near them for more money.

I think part of the issue is the potential of snagging a "sleeping giant." As I noted above, I think it is a coin toss between ISU and Clemson in terms of fan base sizes. Both are land grant schools that are second fiddle in their respective somewhat small population states that lack a major city. It is really hard for them to land fans other than people who live adjacent (not many in either case) or alums. K State has the same issue. So does Oklahoma State. So does Texas Tech. Those places have a really low ceiling on what they are going to bring economically. It sucks, but dudes making decisions want the upside potential and there just isn't much with those schools (Clemson included). If it were economically neutral I'd much rather have ISU in the B1G than Rutgers, but unfortunately it ain't economically neutral, at least for now.

 

[HuckFinn]

If we expand, I want Missouri and Kansas. Will help us recruit in FB and BB. Geography is good. No ISU is good. BT West…Iowa, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Purdue or Indiana.

 

[trj]

Taking a Big 12 leftover has to be balanced out by getting Notre Dame or poaching 2 or 3 other ACC schools. Otherwise it just doesn't work.

 

[Fryowa]

If we expand, I want Missouri and Kansas. Will help us recruit in FB and BB. Geography is good. No ISU is good. BT West…Iowa, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Purdue or Indiana.

B1G isn't expanding. The Big 8 sloppy seconds will pick up 4 G5 schools, try to compete for a couple years, and then after all of their money and decent coaches have bolted to P4 schools, they'll fade into obscurity. Yes, that includes ISU.

And nothing makes me happier than all those whiny, bitter little brothers who went on and on about tavernhocks who didn't go to Iowa being fans.

Well ISU, those tavernhock fans are what makes our fanbase bigger than yours and also what makes Iowa a viable P4 program. Enjoy watching Matty Campy ride outta town to join a B1G team once your shit conference falls apart. You may beat us the next few times we play, but that doesn't change the inevitable downfall of your conference and your team.

Au revoir, Clowns...you can suck a fart outta my ass and hold it like a bong rip.

Signed,

A Tavernhock

 

[hawkdrummer1]

B1G isn't expanding. The Big 8 sloppy seconds will pick up 4 G5 schools, try to compete for a couple years, and then after all of their money and decent coaches have bolted to P4 schools, they'll fade into obscurity. Yes, that includes ISU.

And nothing makes me happier than all those whiny, bitter little brothers who went on and on about tavernhocks who didn't go to Iowa being fans.

Well ISU, those tavernhock fans are what makes our fanbase bigger than yours and also what makes Iowa a viable P4 program. Enjoy watching Matty Campy ride outta town to join a B1G team once your shit conference falls apart. You may beat us the next few times we play, but that doesn't change the inevitable downfall of your conference and your team.

Au revoir, Clowns...you can suck a fart outta my ass and hold it like a bong rip.

Signed,

A Tavernhock

I always loved the "Tavernhock" thing...on several levels.

1. It's a defacto admission that IOWA is a bigger, more appealing and recognizable brand to the average sports fan.

2. It's an admission that only an ISU grad is foolish enough to be a clone fan. Nobody else would want to identify with the program.

3. It's yet another example of twisted clone pretzel logic desperately contrived to make them feel better about their second tier status....and they're blissfully unaware (a common theme) of how obvious that is.