Merged - Big 12 Aftermath Thread

[trj]

Long ways to go with all this but I believe it's going to be very difficult to develop a consensus of opinion to stay put among all the remaining Big 12 teams as some are better candidates for attracting attention than others for possibly being invited to a more stable conference in the future.

As a potential invitee to the Big 12 (if that's the direction they chose) I'd be wondering about the above. Is the core of this conference going to be there 5 years from now? If not, where does that leave me if I accept an invitation?

...............and as far as ISU is concerned I would not count them out as landing on their feet even in the BIG 10. A long shot maybe but I'm not ruling it out. With some of the statements from the Alliance about the college model I'm believing it may not always have to be about pure financial gain.

Bob Bowlsby was sleep at the wheel on this, not as if that really mattered. Point being is that he needs to be proactive. Those AAC schools don't have any Grant of Rights agreement so go get whoever, you have nothing to lose and nether do those AAC schools. If you are Memphis, Cinncinnati, UCF you do not think twice about accepting the invite.

 

[ssckelley]

I guess I was wrong about Kansas, I thought for sure they would make a good fit for the Big Ten

 

[trj]

I think the bigger concern for ISU is what they can’t control…

They really need to worry about the shit teams bailing to go be bigger fish in a smaller conference. The B12 is dead no matter what without Texas and Oklahoma, so there’s really no money to stick around for anyway. If your program is trash already, why not try to go AAC or MW and get some wins?

The 8 Big 12 leftovers plus the 4 or so AAC schools still gets you at least one and some years two teams in a 12 team playoff. The revenue model per school would still suck and there is no way around it, but I think it is better than the other options.

 

[BryceC]

The 8 Big 12 leftovers plus the 4 or so AAC schools still gets you at least one and some years two teams in a 12 team playoff. The revenue model per school would still suck and there is no way around it, but I think it is better than the other options.

You can't bring in anybody and no school would vote to bring in anybody until they know what's going to happen with the other conferences. If you've got a chance to get into one of the big 4 now, they are going to hold on until there isn't another option. The revenue model still sucking means you fire probably tons of people and your entire AD craters. They are going to be lobbying to get into the Pac 12 or something until the door is just absolutely slammed shut on that kind of possibility.

 

[Fryowa]

You can't bring in anybody and no school would vote to bring in anybody until they know what's going to happen with the other conferences. If you've got a chance to get into one of the big 4 now, they are going to hold on until there isn't another option. The revenue model still sucking means you fire probably tons of people and your entire AD craters. They are going to be lobbying to get into the Pac 12 or something until the door is just absolutely slammed shut on that kind of possibility.

If there was a chance for ISU to get added to the PAC12 they wouldn't have come out with that statement saying "no expansion at this time."

They're not going to make that statement and come back a few months or a year later and say, "Yeah, we changed our minds..."

Clowns can spin it any way they want, but if someone wanted ISU or any of the other leftovers they'd have been offered by now. And if the B1G was even thinking about it the story would be [credibly] leaked already. It blows my mind some of these scenarios are that clown fans keep blueprinting as likely possibilities. I understand it because I'd do the same thing in their shoes out of utter desperation, but still...

I also understand that you're a homer just like I'm a Hawkeye homer, but look at this whole thing objectively. ISU football has literally no history whatsoever. Zilch. And that's important whether folks want to admit it or not. Look at nebraska...the single solitary thing that keeps them chugging along making oodles of money is their history. It matters. ISU has none.

The fan base is also hyper regional. Clown fans can go on and on about TV ratings, but nobody watches their games outside of the market that the Big Ten already has. They bring nothing to the table media wise. But they would dilute the revenue pool of the other teams. How does that make any sense at all?

The football team has one good season and now the fans think it's a travesty that they're not being invited yet to the P12 or B1G. Campbell goes 9-3 one frickin time and you guys think he's Woody Hayes incarnate. He ain't. He hasn't proven squat other than a single decent season and that's hardly enough to warrant entry into a P4 conference. Ask Scott Frost how much a single good season means. You or I or anyone else can go on ad nauseum about how he's a great up and coming football mind who's going to win nattys some day, but we both know that that and $2.99 will get us a gallon of gas (maybe). No conference is going to look at your coach and go, "Yeah we gotta have that guy. 9-3 one time and he's obviously going to turn that thing into a marquee program."

ISU basketball? Tire fire. Worst program in all of P6 basketball, and the only thing that made news was a .000 WP. Baseball? Nope. Wrestling? Garbage since Sanderson left in '09.

At some point Clowns are going to have to realize that ISU isn't an athletic department that can survive present state without OK and TX, and financing all those renovations is going to prove to be one of the biggest blunders in school history. You guys borrowed more than Iowa did when we renovated but with waaaaaay less revenue and now what? Admittedly no one saw this coming, but it still doesn't change the situation.

 

[okeefe4prez]

You can't bring in anybody and no school would vote to bring in anybody until they know what's going to happen with the other conferences. If you've got a chance to get into one of the big 4 now, they are going to hold on until there isn't another option. The revenue model still sucking means you fire probably tons of people and your entire AD craters. They are going to be lobbying to get into the Pac 12 or something until the door is just absolutely slammed shut on that kind of possibility.

I'm not sure where things stand, but at this juncture, the only thing that can save Iowa State and the other programs is if there is some sort of monstrous political pressure within Texas and Oklahoma that holds them back. Given that their regents already took the deal, I suspect it is a one in a million, or one in a billion chance that they can back out now. And I doubt that the consortiums of legislators in those states could get the votes needed to tap the brakes.

I hate to say it, but holding could be a bad move. If the ACC decides to go after some combination of Cincinnati, West Virginia, Memphis or UCF (which I would doubt due to two FL schools already) it would not bode well for the castaways. I know this is the death knell, but really the loss of the 4 teams prior to the UT-OU announcement is what doomed the Big 12. No one wants anything in there except KU's hoops team. It really sucks it has come to this, but the teams with the biggest fan bases and markets all got poached. This is why you don't put Bob Bowlsby in charge of anything. Anything. The ACC lost one freaking team and went all in on holding the league together. The Big 12 lost 4 and did nothing. It's unreal.

 

[Fryowa]

Jamie Pollard and Bob Bowlsby:

 

[Fryowa]

I'm not sure where things stand, but at this juncture, the only thing that can save Iowa State and the other programs is if there is some sort of monstrous political pressure within Texas and Oklahoma that holds them back. Given that their regents already took the deal, I suspect it is a one in a million, or one in a billion chance that they can back out now. And I doubt that the consortiums of legislators in those states could get the votes needed to tap the brakes.

I hate to say it, but holding could be a bad move. If the ACC decides to go after some combination of Cincinnati, West Virginia, Memphis or UCF (which I would doubt due to two FL schools already) it would not bode well for the castaways. I know this is the death knell, but really the loss of the 4 teams prior to the UT-OU announcement is what doomed the Big 12. No one wants anything in there except KU's hoops team. It really sucks it has come to this, but the teams with the biggest fan bases and markets all got poached. This is why you don't put Bob Bowlsby in charge of anything. Anything. The ACC lost one freaking team and went all in on holding the league together. The Big 12 lost 4 and did nothing. It's unreal.

I just saw on CryFan that they have a 4 person committee looking into expansion. One of the members is Wintersteen who knows about as much about sports as I do about playing the ukulele, and only one of the 4 is an AD. How could you step in your dick anymore than what the Big 12 already does?

Basically it sounds like there are a dozen AAC/MW teams looking to apply and they want to pressure BYU into it as well.

After Houston and Cincy (the obvious ones they’d go after) I have to assume they’d try and get a couple more to make at least 12 teams. Problem is, at the end of the day you’re still adding 2nd tier teams and a bunch of 40,000 seat stadiums hosting games no one wants to watch. There’s not gonna be enough money. The ISUs, OK States, and Baylors of the world aren’t gonna have enough money to sustain their facilities and P4 coaching staffs. Even if an expansion deal does go down, they ain’t surviving it without taking off the upper deck and plowing some ground under like ASSCAR did when fans quit watching.

The Big12 is admitting defeat by telling the world they want to add teams, and I can hear Matt Campbell’s wife scrolling through Ann Arbor’s Zillow site as we speak.

I see Scott Bakula and Sinbad playing for the Iowa State Armadillos in ISU’s future. However if they get Kathy Ireland to be their kicker and Rob Schneider in the booth yelling fumblerooski I might watch a few minutes of it.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

It definitely looks like ISU and their brothers in the "big" ...whatever it is... have accepted that nobody is inviting them to a bigger party. They're focusing on aquisition to preserve the conference.

 

[ssckelley]

You can't bring in anybody and no school would vote to bring in anybody until they know what's going to happen with the other conferences. If you've got a chance to get into one of the big 4 now, they are going to hold on until there isn't another option. The revenue model still sucking means you fire probably tons of people and your entire AD craters. They are going to be lobbying to get into the Pac 12 or something until the door is just absolutely slammed shut on that kind of possibility.

Sucks to be in your shoes and I fully acknowledge that Iowa is fortunate to already be in the Big Ten but let's be real, that door slammed shut when the ACC, Big Ten, and Pac12 formed an alliance and the Pac12 announced that it was not expanding. Could they change their mind, sure, but we are talking years and if the B12 remnants sit on their hands it's going to keep getting worse before it gets better. The B12 HAS got to pick up the pieces and put that conference back together or your TV revenue will drop into the shitter even further than it already has. Adding schools like Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, and a Florida school is the only shot the Big 12 can survive.

 

[haydensly]

As has been pointed out, they are most likely going to make big time cuts to their athletic department budgets. Their only hope, other than a miracle invite to one of the P4 conferences, is to have a big money booster like T Boone Pickens was to Oklahoma State. Those kind of boosters are few and far between and 99% of the schools don't have one. (Phil Knight at Oregon is the only other one that comes to mind). They are going to have to adjust and it will be painful.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

As has been pointed out, they are most likely going to make big time cuts to their athletic department budgets. Their only hope, other than a miracle invite to one of the P4 conferences, is to have a big money booster like T Boone Pickens was to Oklahoma State. Those kind of boosters are few and far between and 99% of the schools don't have one. (Phil Knight at Oregon is the only other one that comes to mind). They are going to have to adjust and it will be painful.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I just saw on CryFan that they have a 4 person committee looking into expansion. One of the members is Wintersteen who knows about as much about sports as I do about playing the ukulele, and only one of the 4 is an AD. How could you step in your dick anymore than what the Big 12 already does?

Basically it sounds like there are a dozen AAC/MW teams looking to apply and they want to pressure BYU into it as well.

After Houston and Cincy (the obvious ones they’d go after) I have to assume they’d try and get a couple more to make at least 12 teams. Problem is, at the end of the day you’re still adding 2nd tier teams and a bunch of 40,000 seat stadiums hosting games no one wants to watch. There’s not gonna be enough money. The ISUs, OK States, and Baylors of the world aren’t gonna have enough money to sustain their facilities and P4 coaching staffs. Even if an expansion deal does go down, they ain’t surviving it without taking off the upper deck and plowing some ground under like ASSCAR did when fans quit watching.

The Big12 is admitting defeat by telling the world they want to add teams, and I can hear Matt Campbell’s wife scrolling through Ann Arbor’s Zillow site as we speak.

I see Scott Bakula and Sinbad playing for the Iowa State Armadillos in ISU’s future. However if they get Kathy Ireland to be their kicker and Rob Schneider in the booth yelling fumblerooski I might watch a few minutes of it.

I read somewhere that Houston ain't on the table because their AD shit on the Big 8 at some point in the recent past. Imagine if Houston is able to forge an alliance with Cincinnati, Memphis and UCF and they can get to ESPN and recut the AAC TV deal in exchange for a grant of rights to hold that turd together and then the Big 8's only options are BYU and Boise. Man, I would laugh my balls off at that one.

Again, if the AAC and Big 8 remnants were pitching a TV deal today, I am not sure the Big 8's deal is worth much more than the AAC's just because of the bigger markets the AAC is in and the sheer size of UCF. The slight edge the Big 8 has at this point is maybe Iowa State can pitch the Iowa game every other year and Oklahoma State can pitch the Oklahoma game every other year. Those are literally the only marquee assets the Big 8 has left to sell. Talk about a shitty negotiating position.

 

[Fryowa]

I read somewhere that Houston ain't on the table because their AD shit on the Big 8 at some point in the recent past. Imagine if Houston is able to forge an alliance with Cincinnati, Memphis and UCF and they can get to ESPN and recut the AAC TV deal in exchange for a grant of rights to hold that turd together and then the Big 8's only options are BYU and Boise. Man, I would laugh my balls off at that one.

Again, if the AAC and Big 8 remnants were pitching a TV deal today, I am not sure the Big 8's deal is worth much more than the AAC's just because of the bigger markets the AAC is in and the sheer size of UCF. The slight edge the Big 8 has at this point is maybe Iowa State can pitch the Iowa game every other year and Oklahoma State can pitch the Oklahoma game every other year. Those are literally the only marquee assets the Big 8 has left to sell. Talk about a shitty negotiating position.

Yeah no matter how this thing shakes out the cream is going to float to the top and the turds will sink. The whole discussion between we millions of football fans is just discourse over which programs are the turds.

 

[Fryowa]

The slight edge the Big 8 has at this point is maybe Iowa State can pitch the Iowa game every other year and Oklahoma State can pitch the Oklahoma game every other year.

I know all the Iowa media guys like Hlas and Lyesticow all disagree with me, but I don’t see the CryHawk trophy existing after the alliance takes affect. If you got a couple hot chicks that want to start taking you to prom you don’t keep taking the grenade.

Like I mentioned before, if we have a shot at getting like a Notre Dame and USC or Miami and Oregon for OOC or whatever, I think we pay Pollard his cash and tell him to find a cab home before 2025. That game has always been and always will be a win/win for ISU and a lose/lose for us.

 

[Motigerhawk]

I saw an article that suggested the Big 12 should invite North Dakota State

 

[BryceC]

Sucks to be in your shoes and I fully acknowledge that Iowa is fortunate to already be in the Big Ten but let's be real, that door slammed shut when the ACC, Big Ten, and Pac12 formed an alliance and the Pac12 announced that it was not expanding. Could they change their mind, sure, but we are talking years and if the B12 remnants sit on their hands it's going to keep getting worse before it gets better. The B12 HAS got to pick up the pieces and put that conference back together or your TV revenue will drop into the shitter even further than it already has. Adding schools like Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, and a Florida school is the only shot the Big 12 can survive.

it will drop into the shitter even if you added those teams. If you add those teams, they will demand a new GoR. They absolutely cannot do it until the lawsuits shake out and again the possibility of joining a new conference absolutely isn’t happening.

just my opinion obviously but I don’t think the alliance is meaningful in any way.

 

[ssckelley]

it will drop into the shitter even if you added those teams. If you add those teams, they will demand a new GoR. They absolutely cannot do it until the lawsuits shake out and again the possibility of joining a new conference absolutely isn’t happening.

just my opinion obviously but I don’t think the alliance is meaningful in any way.

What lawsuits? You think the court system is going to bail out the B12?

If the B12 waits until all possibility of joining a new conference isn’t happening then you‘re screwed and you might be screwed either way. You’ll wind up begging the AAC to take you as they can grab these other schools and likely present a more attractive offer to the TV networks than what the B12 can.

There is nothing sexy about Iowa State to these other conference or to the networks. Iowa State has done too little too late and has no history to fall back on. They failed to establish solid rivalries against Nebraska and Missouri when it had the chance, the only game you can call a rivalry is against Iowa and not many outside the state care about it. The only decent TV market the state has is Des Moines and that's not appealing enough to the networks to justify the Big 4 to take you in. Again I don't say this to bash ISU as Iowa would probably be in the same boat if the situation was reversed. I'd like to think Iowa has some history and solid rivalry's to fall back on but I may be biased.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

I saw an article that suggested the Big 12 should invite North Dakota State

There would be worse choices. But there are a few problems.

-They're still FCS (and a big dog in FCS, would they want to give that up?)
-Their stadium is only 17K+ (but they pack it and it rocks)
-There's no up side on TV revenue, the entire state of ND is only 760K (1.6M if you count both Dakotas) and between the Dakotas allegiances are split amongst NDSU, UND and USD (though NDSU is the biggest)

 

[BryceC]

What lawsuits? You think the court system is going to bail out the B12?

If the B12 waits until all possibility of joining a new conference isn’t happening then you‘re screwed and you might be screwed either way. You’ll wind up begging the AAC to take you as they can grab these other schools and likely present a more attractive offer to the TV networks than what the B12 can.

There is nothing sexy about Iowa State to these other conference or to the networks. Iowa State has done too little too late and has no history to fall back on. They failed to establish solid rivalries against Nebraska and Missouri when it had the chance, the only game you can call a rivalry is against Iowa and not many outside the state care about it. The only decent TV market the state has is Des Moines and that's not appealing enough to the networks to justify the Big 4 to take you in. Again I don't say this to bash ISU as Iowa would probably be in the same boat if the situation was reversed. I'd like to think Iowa has some history and solid rivalry's to fall back on but I may be biased.

No, the Big 12 as it is currently constituted is done. I mean the lawsuits that are going to be settled between the current members and OU/UT for leaving. I assume they they will be leaving and they will negotiate some sort of payout from ESPN or something since the Big 12 will still have the GoR in place for them.

I don't think there is a "wait too long" here. What's the difference, money wise, between adding some AAC teams now and waiting a few years to see how things shake out? If the difference is between what, a 15 million dollar TV contract and a 20 million dollar TV contract per year, well the result is the same - basically every coach needs to be let go and the entire department craters. You don't do that willingly, you wait and beg barter and steal to try to get into another conference or hope that another player like Amazon or Apple enters the broadcast rights game.

As to the rivalry thing, I'm honestly just confused. Maybe you and I just have a different outlook here but I don't think they matter at all which we've seen play out. A&M had great rivalries in the Big 12 and couldn't wait to get out. Nebraska had very good ongoing rivalries with OU, CU, and KSU, and they dumped them like a bad habit. Mizzou and KU was one of the most weirdly intense rivalries in the country and nada. I honestly think rivalries are meaningless when it comes to realignment.