Well of course you would, but that goes to what trj said - they only care if their team is really good. If they aren't, they don't care at all.
Merged - Big 12 Aftermath Thread
- Thread starter tweeterhawk
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Well of course you would, but that goes to what trj said - they only care if their team is really good. If they aren't, they don't care at all.
This pretty much nails it. It's like the old saying, "something is worth what you can sell it for." In this case, it (Iowa State athletics) just does not have a lot of value, and that is showing.
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
What's your endgame though as ISU? What is the case you're pleading?
However this shakes out and whatever you guys want to happen, it comes down to brand value and if you ain't got it, you ain't got it. Let's face it, if ISU sports had monetary value to anyone whether it's a TV network or athletic conference, we wouldn't be having this conversation. ISU and whoever else would have found a home by now, and if those other 8 schools were worth anything to TV networks OK and UT wouldn't be leaving. If the PAC and B1G wanted a team they would've started making hay already to try and stop some of the bleeding the SEC is causing. The clock is ticking cause' OK and UT ain't playing in your shambled conference next year.
It's a little bit like the argument of cutting non revenue programs during covid. Should the money makers (football) have to pay for the non-moneymakers (golf)? Just for the sake thereof? How is it any different that the money makers in a conference should be forced to stick around when there are better opportunities? Some of you guys say the should have to honor their contract...ok then, now you're in the same boat only you prolonged it by 4 years and made it worse by forcing two lame ducks to play three more years in a conference they don't want to be in (yeah that'll make good TV). You still have the same problem regardless.
I get that it's an emotional issue for you as a clown fan. It would be for me too if it was happening to the Hawks. You think you're on the cusp of greatness because of a unicorn season and a coach who seems like he can't lose. (check out Iowa 2015 if you wanna see how that doesn't mean shit to the rest of the country). But there's zero demand for ISU's product outside of Iowa, and adding them to any conference is not going to add value to that conference. It's just diluting value by being another mouth to feed with a set number of TV dollars.. Again, if there were something to be had, ISU wouldn't be in this position.
I know you guys think ISU football is on a rocket ship to the moon with a trendy coach. But it's been 2 good years out of a hundred, the basketball program is a complete tire fire, and what else is there? If people are gonna say they should be in a P5 conference, then sell your case to the rest of the world.
People on your board are saying, "Yeah I can't wait for UT to have a losing record so the SEC looks like a bunch of idiots..." Well guess what, Jack, it ain't about wins. The SEC is gonna look like geniuses no matter what happens. UT has a F ton of value (revenue dollars) from fans whether they go undefeated or don't win a game. They have history and those fans are gonna watch TV commercials and buy tickets and hoodies and all kinds of stuff win or lose. And that's all that counts whether we want to admit it or not.
The old saying "there but for the grace of God go I" is attributed to a man named John Bradford upon seeing criminals being led to their execution. 2 years later he was executed for heresy.
We have more going for us than Iowa State, better history, better stadium, better facilities, bigger fan base, more donations, more national brand name recognition. But it would be foolish for us to laugh at ISU or to be assholes to their fans right now because at the end of the day, we are clearly a pretty decent welfare queen in the Big Ten and if God forbid we hire the wrong replacement for Ferentz our fan support could shrivel quickly. This isn't a time to stick a knife into Bryce and turn it, man. I really hate to say this, but I think there is a nonzero chance that before this decade is out Iowa is marched out back and shot in the head just like Iowa State just was.
Our fate is really tied to the fates of OSU, Michigan and PSU. I really don't think they would bolt from the conference, but I cannot ignore the implications that are created by streaming and the direct to consumer model and the importance of having our conference's content spread across Fox and ESPN. The BTN deal with Fox could be the conference's Achilles heel.
Here is a thread from 2013 where people were calling out the Rutgers and Maryland additions and the predictions about the wisdom of the cable model may prove prescient. https://forum.hawkeyenation.com/threads/were-the-fans-booing-the-commish.62151/
I really hope that ISU finds a landing spot or some macro deal can be reached with media partners and the member schools to keep programs like ISU and KSU alive and not relegated to significantly second class status because there's a pretty reasonable chance that we could find ourselves there in the not too distant future.
Fryowa
Administrator
I'm not twisting the knife. It's realism. The fan base can only mention attendance so many times before someone needs to explain that no matter how many people within a 150 mile radius come to games and watch on TV, adding revenue or expanding exposure is the only thing that's going to save any team in 2021.
The complicated and convoluted methods that #leftovers fans are coming up with for joining the PAC or B1G (while understandable under the 5 stages of grief) are fruitless. It's like those day dreams kids have of how someday they'll be at a KISS concert and Ace Frehley will break his leg, and then Paul Stanley will ask if anyone in the crowd knows Detroit Rock City, and then the kid goes up on stage to save the day as a civilian in front of 30,000 fans, putting him on the front page of newspapers worldwide and a gaining him a permanent gig as a guitar tech. Fun story, but at the end of the day it ain't happening.
And just so we're clear, I have zero confidence that this isn't going to happen to Iowa at some point. The only question is whether it happens before college football itself goes away.
To quote Bruce Springsteen, "Everything dies, baby that's a fact."
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
Good post. But in this instance, we should try to be nice to Bryce. "Look over there, Lenny, it's a big rabbit." "Sure, son, if we're at the game and you take your glove and hat and Derek Jeter gets injured they might call you to come in and play." "You never know, Ace Frehley could break a leg and you might get pulled on stage to sing Detroit Rock City."
The guy is despondent. Just let him work through the grief and come to his own conclusion. Don't try to reason with him or impart logic. Hell, the SEC deal might fall apart and then the vendetta that the officials have against Iowa State might turn its focus to Texas and OU and ISU might make the playoffs 6 years in a row once they are playing 11 on 11 rather than against the refs as well.
Fryowa
Administrator
Over/under on the number of folks on HN who’ve read Of Mice and Men?
Whatever number you come up with it’s higher than on CyFan. I mean, with UI’s literature program and all.
Motigerhawk
Well-Known Member
I would love to see the PAC12 come into the B1G fold.
I would love to see 9 conference games with 2 crossovers to the PAC12, one home, one away. That leaves you with your FCS warm up game.
This would be a much bigger story than TX and OU tot he SEC.
I would love to see 9 conference games with 2 crossovers to the PAC12, one home, one away. That leaves you with your FCS warm up game.
This would be a much bigger story than TX and OU tot he SEC.
HawkeyeDenis
Well-Known Member
It's official. Texas and Oklahoma leaving the B12. Now the rest of the B12 will have to scramble get out the door before the conference crumbles. Without Texas/Oklahoma the TV revenue faucet will turn into a dribble. Smaller athletic budgets, less money for coaches and facilities.
Iowa State is on a rocky path. And it wouldn't surprise me to see Campbell take one of the prime jobs he's being offered. And then what does Iowa State have to offer? A market they split with Iowa/Nebraska? Without Campbell they will return to the 4 win seasons.
Iowa State is on a rocky path. And it wouldn't surprise me to see Campbell take one of the prime jobs he's being offered. And then what does Iowa State have to offer? A market they split with Iowa/Nebraska? Without Campbell they will return to the 4 win seasons.
Motigerhawk
Well-Known Member
Yep. The super conferences are coming.
I bet the ACC partners with the SEC as the PAC12 and B1G join up. Seems like college football is becoming more regional
It's tougher to exclude Iowa and be legitimate about competition. Since 2015, Iowa is #9 in the country in wins. All-time, Iowa is 24th in weeks in AP poll, 38th in wins, 11th in FBS championships (all prior to 1960). I'd have to crawl the ratings site, but Iowa's t.v. ratings are above average the last ten years, too (helps that the last 6 Iowa has been good).
I think if they go to a 32 team new division, Iowa is probably squeaking in.
Have you ever lived in a MAC town? More people go to high school games. Even when U.C. was undefeated in the Big East, they didn't start selling out until 6 or 7 games in. The games are in general, not televised, and not even on the radio in some MAC areas. Second division teams have the media presence of Valley High School or the Iowa Wild. Outside of the town they reside in, nobody cares. Iowa has no pro sports. Big time college football is it. Believe me when I say, people on campus laugh at athletes and their dreams at small schools. They think they are ridiculous wannabe posers.
Saturdays at games in Iowa City are an event. If Iowa goes second division, athletics will go bankrupt, the research grants given by the B1G academic alliance will disappear, the whole thing will collapse and Iowa will be Drake or UNI, a suitcase school, third-tier college with no medical school or children's hospital. That's what is riding on Big Ten membership. Shit that matters. Stuff that literally saves lives. Who cares if they win the Big Ten? What matters is having a seat at that table. All other concerns are secondary.
Oh, it will happen again after Sabin retires. Dirt will be dished during the hiring process and ship will hit the fan. Happens nearly every time a big SEC coach leaves.
The S stands for Scandal.
Motigerhawk
Well-Known Member
Iowa will be in the 32. Too much solid history. We are one of the best tier 2 programs in the nation.
trj
Well-Known Member
I agree. However, it is super fragile. As OK4P stated in one of his posts it wouldn't take much for the football program to crater. It is high stakes now Iowa can't afford to whiff on their head football coach moving forward.
As of the 18-19 season the Iowa athletic department is 14th in the country in terms of generating revenue. A lot of that hinges on the football program. Right now we are in the club, but if Brian Ferentz or whoever flame out we are definitely on the outside looking in.
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
I would hope no one is reading it in college. It was a middle school book where I lived.
Still a higher ratio than on CyFan.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
So many keep bringing up academics. A medial school had Zero impact. To be frank that is about all Iowa has and a good law school....both graduate programs. Like saying Iowa wouldn't get in because the aren't a land grant for research. You watch too many of the infomercials during halftime. Iowa s med school and law school isn't going away if kicked out of the Big.
You could make a case that if Iowa doesn't attract more international student tuition and raise instate tuition a lot that I owa couldn't afford 2 25k student universities.
Southern IL used to be a fantastic university used to have 25k students, a decent research standing. IL is dying a lot like 1980s Iowa for different reasons and have cut support.SIU now has about 7000 students and the town is boarded up. The quad has signs warning students not to be there at night.
Iowa as a state needs to figure out how to support higher ed more than football.
Iowa doesn't draw many international students because of lack of research. Iowa attracts the same type of student that SIU used to do.
Like Iowa hs football , traditional conferences will diminish.
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
Totally agreed. All of the Illinois directional schools other than Northern are in absolutely dire straits. My dad got his MBA from Western about 20 years ago and he has heard that Western is in substantial jeopardy of closing.
I went to Drake for undergrad and I would honestly say the undergrad program at Drake is way better than Iowa. When I was in law school I took a few undergrad classes at Iowa and the sheer number of mouthbreathers in them was troubling. Don't get me wrong, as a flagship state school the top kids at Iowa are extremely bright, but my God does the talent pool in there dive really freaking quickly.
These schools are going to have to radically change their business model. Iowa cannot adopt a model like Drake where you have small class sizes and high expectations for class participation and substantial written work product. The regent schools basically have to consolidate their offerings and start teaching everything through video to cut costs. We did that when I was in high school in the '90's through the fantastic Iowa fiber optics network. It frustrates me to no end that despite substantial deflationary pressures in all sorts of technologically related industries that higher education has consistently seen price hikes that are 2x the level of inflation, but I'll stop that rant so fry doesn't ban me. Let's just suffice it to say that the school's next president really has her work cut out for her.
Fryowa
Administrator
Loved the ol' ICN.
Took 3 religion classes on it. Went to a Catholic college and we were required to take Old Testament (full year) , New Testament (full year), and World Religions. All 100 level. You ain't lived till you sat in a community college classroom twice a week and listened to a priest talk about Exodus from 7-10PM three times a week.
Looking back it was like Zoom meetings from the Flintstone era. Fake woodgrain covered microphones you had to press a button to talk with. My second year I remember we got a huge upgrade to the system and it actually switched the video feed to whoever keyed the mic. Kinda like Jeopardy, whatever teacher's pet hit the button first got to answer the question.
