Merged - Big 12 Aftermath Thread

I know a lot of you guys hate ISU fans but there are going to be some good fanbases who generally care about college sports that are going to be left out of this thing when it all shakes out and there are going to be some absolutely trash fanbases that are going to be left in out of pure dumb luck.
Couple things...

You've always been a level-headed Cyclone fan, especially on a visitor's board, and especially more than me. I don't claim to be level-headed about it because I hate the Cyclones. Have since I was a kid, my dad hated 'em and so did my grandpa. So...I feel for you in this whole deal. Honestly.

But...it goes equally both ways, and it happens with every single fanbase in the nation, not just Hawks/Clowns. It's the way college sports works and it's one of the best things about college sports. The competition spills out of the field or arena and into the fanbases always hoping for a leg up as well as the downfall of their rivals in whatever fashion that takes. I guarantee you if the tables were turned on the Hawks, CryFan would be full of threads celebrating the downfall of your big brother. Hell, I even have the nickname tavernhok bestowed on me because I didn't graduate from Iowa, which is hilarious because you guys have taken your hatred of Iowa so far that you've reached the point that the only people technically allowed to be fans are those who graduated from a particular school. And you guys don't see how dumb that is. Do I hate being called a tavernhok? F no, I love it because there's nothing else left for them to say. "Tavernhok" is basically, "I know you are but what am I" from clown fans. But I digress...

So with that out of the way, I don't think you're looking at this thing from 30,000 feet. A couple good seasons and good home attendance don't mean shit. I'm just going to say it bluntly. College football is about two things: 1) value to TV advertisers and 2) national brand recognition. Period. That's the way it is. ISU having 55,000 fans in the stadium doesn't mean shit because that's not what's bringing in revenue. USC had the exact same attendance as you guys, but there were orders of magnitude more people watching their games and everyone from sea to shining sea knows who they are. They'll bring in money even if they suck. ISU won't. You guys kinda admitted it yourself by saying you don't have any "tavernclones" because the only people rooting for your school are grads. Being a major program doesn't work that way.

Be honest with yourself and face facts. Your program has a tiny, tiny fanbase compared to major P5 programs, and even worse than that it's hyper regional. You and I both know that no one other than grads outside the states touching Iowa even know who the Cyclones are. Until Campbell Soup had his unicorn year last year, sure as HELL no one knew who they were. Let's compare that to Iowa. We might not be a good football team, but we're a consistently above average football team with brand recognition nationwide. Because of what Fry did back in the 80s and a little decent success sprinkled throughout, everyone (even if not sports fans whatsoever), knows who the Hawkeyes are. Show almost anyone in the US the Tigerhawk and they'll go..."That's the Iowa Hawkeyes logo." Same with Michigan State and nebraska and Michigan and Penn State... Maybe you guys should have created a brand at some point and not had 37 different mascots and logos and uniforms and EVEN CHANGED COLORS every year for god's sake. Hayden Fry knew what the F he was doing when he ripped off the Steelers unis (with permission of course), and KF knew what the F he was doing by not changing our logo and colors except for a few dumb alt jerseys. Newsflash, ISU people...ONE LOGO. Don't change it. ONE mascot...don't change it. Ever. All it's going to do is alienate fans who stick with your program through the down years. Changing the face of your team does not energize people. The Cubs have sucked shit 99% of their existence but do you think their fans would've wanted a "logo refresh" and some stupid goddamn "black chrome" helmets? No. There's solidarity in being a miserable fan of a miserable team and once they do get good then you can say you haven't sold your soul to the devil. The lesson...even if you suck you can still be worth money on some sort of scale. To do that people have to both know who you are and want to watch it. Say what you want about Iowa, but at the end of the day we have that "thing" in our own conference. ISU doesn't. Hell nebraska is the biggest example of it...they stay in a P5 conference just for that reason...they make bank. That's the sad reality.

Yeah there are gonna be job losses and destroyed fan bases when this thing is over, but that's sports. Fans will be ok, and if you got employed in the college sports field with job security at the front of your mind, well, you're an idiot. Things change and the world moves on. I know you said your favorite times were Clown games with your family. I get it. That sucks. But my absolute most fond memories are fishing with my dad in a quiet, beautiful spot that's now covered by 250,000 sq feet of concrete camper spots. We had some of the best personal moments ever there and I wish I could take my kid there for the same thing. But my dad is gone and so is that spot. And I'm ok. Everything's temporary, my man. If we're honest with ourselves, college football ain't even gonna be a thing in 20 years anyway.
 
All of this talk about raiding the Pac 12 just bums me out more as an ISU fan. The 2019 figures had ISU with an average attendance of 59,794, #21, right behind... you guys actually.

I know a lot of you guys hate ISU fans but there are going to be some good fanbases who generally care about college sports that are going to be left out of this thing when it all shakes out and there are going to be some absolutely trash fanbases that are going to be left in out of pure dumb luck.

No one knows what will happen and I actually feel bad for you guys. Unfortunately, the attendance is a secondary concern behind the value of media rights in this regime and the juiciest media assets in the Big 12 have all been poached. Iowa State versus anyone in the remainder of the Big 12 just isn't a compelling national draw 9 out of 10 years.

I fucking hate what has become of this regime. I hate Rutgers and Maryland in the Big Ten. I hate that the Rose Bowl means fuckall now. I hate that Nebraska playing Oklahoma is gone. Hell, I even hate that Nebraska is in the Big Ten.

I hope some sort of deal gets worked out because I'm sure a bunch of these schools have borrowed a shitload of money in reliance on what they thought was going to be an ever growing revenue stream that is going to dry up. That is going to lead to $500 per year "activity fees" loaded upon 19 year old kids' student loan balances to bail out the athletic departments, which I find disgusting.
 
I hope some sort of deal gets worked out because I'm sure a bunch of these schools have borrowed a shitload of money in reliance on what they thought was going to be an ever growing revenue stream that is going to dry up.
If it ever comes to that they'll just force majeure the hell out of it anyway.
 
If it ever comes to that they'll just force majeure the hell out of it anyway.

A lot of these financings are done in the bond market because the bonds are federal tax exempt since they are issued by a governmental body. It slashes the borrowing costs. The "force majeure" in a bond default is bankruptcy. They can try to restructure, but if you're a school with hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue and a big endowment, it is pretty hard to cry poverty to your creditors particularly when you are dealing with some asshole New York bank as the bond trustee.
 
This Longhorn writer may not know anything but I find it interesting that they think the Big Ten is not interested in Kansas. If being a AAU member is still a priority Kansas checks that box. If this is true then perhaps Kansas would look to the Pac 12.

 
As far as strengthening the conference with competing with the SEC, Notre Dame, Clemson, and USC would help.

A few years ago the Big Eight changed it’s conference name. Now a similar name may be returning but with a twist.

* The Little Eight Conference
or
*The Ugly Eight Step Children Conference.

or

The Left Over Conference

or

The Peanut Butter and Jelly Sandwich Conference

Maybe the runaway ugly step corn sister will go home where they can once again compete with their true level of competition.

Then the conference can be called
The Weak Ass Nine Conference
 
Maybe the runaway ugly step corn sister will go home where they can once again compete with their true level of competition.
Ordinarily I'd agree with that sentiment, but this is not the time we want to be losing any schools not named Rutgers or Maryland.
 
Ordinarily I'd agree with that sentiment, but this is not the time we want to be losing any schools not named Rutgers or Maryland.

Nebraska has to be thanking their lucky stars that they talked the Big Ten into letting them join. Now that they suck at football they offer nothing of value to the Big Ten. At least Rutgers and Maryland offer a crapload of TV sets that the BTN can charge their premium rates for.
 
Nebraska has to be thanking their lucky stars that they talked the Big Ten into letting them join. Now that they suck at football they offer nothing of value to the Big Ten. At least Rutgers and Maryland offer a crapload of TV sets that the BTN can charge their premium rates for.
I agree. If recent trends mean anything then I would favor a football program that is an up and coming program over Nebraska.

Hmmmmmm who could I be talking about here?

People have to remember that the SEC illegal recruiting conference for many years had a bunch of patsies in it too. Two or three strong teams. a couple of teams in the next tier down, and then the bottom dwellers of their conference. Sound familiar? Sounds like most power five conferences. So what if we ditch the huskers for some clowns? The state boundaries are irrelevant when talking Nebbie or the clowns.

Maybe the SEC could use some clowns. At this point ISU is probably equal to Texas A&M. Now that would be an interesting rival with an SEC team having a rival from the big ten.

Nebraska is a bunch of has beens at this point. They are living off of past history twenty years or more ago. The clowns would have to sign some kind of agreement to be allowed to stay in B1G. First and for most to keep their current coach around regardless of the cost, otherwise they would be a total deficit to the conference.

I do have to say having followed college football since the early seventies, it never gets old beating Nebraska’s ass.
 
I agree. If recent trends mean anything then I would favor a football program that is an up and coming program over Nebraska.

Hmmmmmm who could I be talking about here?

People have to remember that the SEC illegal recruiting conference for many years had a bunch of patsies in it too. Two or three strong teams. a couple of teams in the next tier down, and then the bottom dwellers of their conference. Sound familiar? Sounds like most power five conferences. So what if we ditch the huskers for some clowns? The state boundaries are irrelevant when talking Nebbie or the clowns.

Maybe the SEC could use some clowns. At this point ISU is probably equal to Texas A&M. Now that would be an interesting rival with an SEC team having a rival from the big ten.

Nebraska is a bunch of has beens at this point. They are living off of past history twenty years or more ago. The clowns would have to sign some kind of agreement to be allowed to stay in B1G. First and for most to keep their current coach around regardless of the cost, otherwise they would be a total deficit to the conference.

I do have to say having followed college football since the early seventies, it never gets old beating Nebraska’s ass.

Are you suggesting that the SEC could take Iowa State?

That can't be right! I'm reading this wrong, right?
 
My pie in the sky prediction. The B1G grabs ISU, Kansas and all 8 Pac12 AAU schools to create a 24 team (4X6 Pod) superconference. They could provide live sports on the B1G Network at least 18hrs a day.
 
Are you suggesting that the SEC could take Iowa State?

That can't be right! I'm reading this wrong, right?
Yes, as they just took Texas and Oklahoma. The law of averages says that for every good looking chick there are two or three fat chicks. Guess which one is the fat ugly chick? Lol

The thing is State has been on a Jenny Craig program the last two years soooooo you never know.
 
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NIL was settled unanimously by the Supreme Court. The Big Ten can't say shit about it.

Restricting NIL would create one of the biggest class actions this country has ever seen. Completely fucking left field
NIL was settled unanimously by the Supreme Court. The Big Ten can't say shit about it.

Restricting NIL would create one of the biggest class actions this country has ever seen. Completely fucking left field to even consider that.
The NIL rules will vary from State to State and could vary from school to school. That’s the whole problem.

I wish you wouldn’t use swear words so often. It doesn’t help your arguments.
 
The major problem with college football is the disparity in spending. NIL will just make it worse. Alabama, Clemson and Ohio Stare will outspend the Iowa States and the gap will grow. Iowa State and schools like it won’t be able to keep up.

Why not go to an NFL or MLB model and simply pay salaries to the players? Why not then create overall salary caps and a player draft with rules to create competitive balance? It is hard to sustain a dynasty in the NFL. Shouldn’t it be just as difficult in college football? If the amateur model cannot be sustained, why not embrace the NFL model?
 
Why not go to an NFL or MLB model and simply pay salaries to the players? Why not then create overall salary caps and a player draft with rules to create competitive balance? It is hard to sustain a dynasty in the NFL. Shouldn’t it be just as difficult in college football? If the amateur model cannot be sustained, why not embrace the NFL model?
Terrible idea. To say that Tristan Wirfs grows up in Mount Vernon and then has to play for Wake Forest because they drafted him is preposterous. To say that Trevor Lawrence has to play for Washington State instead of staying local so his parents could drive to the games is also absurd. And some of the guys actually care about the school and their major.

The schools cannot materially pay the players because of Title IX. Every dollar of "salary" expended by the school on football players would have to be matched for a women's program. And there won't be much of a way to enforce anything substantial vis a vis NIL because of antitrust laws. It would literally be a cartel fixing the price of an athlete's likeness. That ain't gonna fly. The antitrust laws are the NCAA's and conferences' biggest fear.
 
Football, as it declines, is going to become more regionalized. Fans in the west have plenty of outdoor activities year-round. The south and the SE are going to be the last bastions. The 40 and younger crowd just isn't as interested. Brain injuries will continue to downward pressure.
 
Football, as it declines, is going to become more regionalized. Fans in the west have plenty of outdoor activities year-round. The south and the SE are going to be the last bastions. The 40 and younger crowd just isn't as interested. Brain injuries will continue to downward pressure.

There's plenty to do in the SE as well, but people love college football. The bigger problem for the North is that population is flat or barely growing in a lot of states in the B1G and Big 12 footprint.
 
Time to go to the soccer model. 32 teams in the super league. Every year the bottom 4 are replaced by the teams not in the super league. Open transfer, but a football program has to compensate the team the player left from. Players get paid from the NILs, but let the football program hire a rep for all the players. Base the payment on a tiered system of where you are ranked. Alabama pays a premium to Iowa State to poach Breece Hall. But Iowa State pays a lot less to poach Najee Harris

Something along those lines.
 
Time to go to the soccer model. 32 teams in the super league. Every year the bottom 4 are replaced by the teams not in the super league. Open transfer, but a football program has to compensate the team the player left from. Players get paid from the NILs, but let the football program hire a rep for all the players. Base the payment on a tiered system of where you are ranked. Alabama pays a premium to Iowa State to poach Breece Hall. But Iowa State pays a lot less to poach Najee Harris

Something along those lines.
If the players are going to continue as college students rather than minor league professional athletes, there will be no “poaching” of players, unless you mean that transfer students will have to rely on their desired institution shelling out fees the magnitude of which are dependent upon winning percentage or some sort of soft salary cap to allow them to transfer, which still seems to me far fetched and probably not legal.

As to the school-wide NIL rep, if you are suggesting that a player could not get their own agent and must use the rep you are running up against more antitrust suits, this time with schools instead of the NCAA the defendants, unless you expect every school to form it’s own football player’s association, and then you still have right to work states and in all likelihood yet more lawsuits.
 
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Why not then create...a player draft with rules to create competitive balance? It is hard to sustain a dynasty in the NFL. Shouldn’t it be just as difficult in college football?
So a high school kid wants to play football but also get a degree, and you're suggesting he doesn't get to choose where he goes to college? Jesus christ, man, do you even think about what you're typing? Good god.

1.6% of players make it to the NFL and an even smaller percentage make active rosters. So 98.4% of college football players who will never be professional can't decide what school they want to attend? Sucks to be a guy who gets picked by a school that doesn't have the major he wants I guess.
 

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