Matt Gatens said it best this morning!

[FreddyBrown]

Stillbuster...

Three expectations for this season for me to continue to support TL as the coach:
1) Play like champions -- with pride and balls-out effort for your self, coach and university.
2) Improvement over the season, especially on the offensive end, toward competitive basketball.
3) Zero voluntary transfers.

Coming from MG, who was born to play Hawkeye basketball, causes serious concern about #1. Based on body language in most games, it looks like he's just not having any fun. On the other hand, there have also been many games where he looks to be mailing it in.

Don't know his true state of mind behind these comments but suspect part of it is his own personal frustration at dealing with a bum ankle much of the B11 season, dissatisfaction with his own consistently sub-par performances -- to the point of sometimes being a liability due to his lapses in focus -- and generally feeling he (and most of the team) are pretty much overmatched in most games.

While Cole is having an equally sub-par season, at least he is speaking positively about the team chemistry, effort and buying into the plan for success.

As far as #2, there's no doubt improvement has occurred. Unfortunately, the peak came about 3 weeks ago and has since deteriorated to inconsistent, wild swings between competitive, focused execution and gouge your eyes out awful.

There has been exactly one guy who has consistently progressed / maintained his improvement from game to game -- Fuller. Payne and May (along with the other frosh) have hit the "wall" -- which is completely expected from true freshman. Bawinkel and L'il Lick never have belonged on D-1 courts so can't get blood from a stone, there. Most disappointing are MG and Cole -- especially their lapses in concentration (fumbilitis) and inability to consistently hit open looks. I'll write some of it off to being outsized and athletically overmatched but I still had higher expectations for these 2 to help drive the offense.

As for #3, I don't count Tucker. While I don't like how the situation was allowed to string out, his demise was his own doing -- twice! I'm much more concerned about the insinuations about guys like Brommer, who have the size and ability to develop into decent bench depth.

Overall, 3 weeks ago I would have said "check", "check", "check" on all 3 and been ready to see what TL could do with some added talent and depth next season. Based on MG's comments, I find myself saying "unacceptable" to #1, "somewhat" to #2 and "hope not" to #3. If he speaks for the team's true mind set and #3 comes to pass then the Lickliter era must end at 5 pm, March 11th, after the 3rd consecutive demolition at the hands of Michigan.

I admire your reasoned and consistent approach. I'm a fairly rational guy in general but I'm such a passionate fan that I struggle with consistency and patience in my own approach to Iowa basketball.

The one part of your post that I wanted to respond to is the part about improvement. You say you've seen improvement "somewhat," and I agree in the limited sense that there have been games in which they have played better than they did at times last season and better than they've played at other times this season.

To me, however, if improvement is not sustained, it isn't improvement. It's an aberration. And that's all I think we've gotten from this team--anomalous spikes in the quality of play, notably coming for the most part against the lesser teams of the league.

Right now, I'm disgusted. My nature when it comes to Iowa hoops is that if it doesn't happen again for a while I can convince myself that there is reason to hang on without major changes. Unfortunately, I think it's probably going to happen two more times before the season mercifully ends, and if so I don't see how one can reasonably come away from this season with the sense that there was any meaningful improvement.

 

[HawkIreign]

I agree with Barta that next year we will be middle of the big ten and the following year we will be top 3.

Are you blind or mentally retarded? He have bottom 3 BT talent at this point and we have a bottom half of the BT recruiting class coming in.

 

[clicheusername3]

Are you blind or mentally retarded? He have bottom 3 BT talent at this point and we have a bottom half of the BT recruiting class coming in.

No dude this recruiting class is TOP 10. We snagged these kids right out of the jaws of the perennial top MVC and Horizon league teams...they didn't even know what hit them...

 

[1977Hawkeye]

Re: Stillbuster...

To me, however, if improvement is not sustained, it isn't improvement. It's an aberration. And that's all I think we've gotten from this team--anomalous spikes in the quality of play, notably coming for the most part against the lesser teams of the league.

Well said, and that's what I'm struggling with right now. What seemed like improvement in late January or early February really seems to be gone now. I just am not seeing it at this point. Maybe I'm blind, but these last 3 road games have all been horrific.

 

[TChawk]

I agree with Barta that next year we will be middle of the big ten and the following year we will be top 3.

The only way Iowa will ever be in the top 3 in the Big ten with Lick as the coach is if 8 teams leave the big 10 or 8 just don't play the season..

Face it could not coach his way out of a wet paper bag and can't recruit worth a crap...

To say that is laughable and nothing more.

 

[hawkytalk]

Sorry I can not copy and paste. The only thing I left out was "HOPEFULLY,its motivation to keep working and go get them Sunday.I really don't think that changes anything. Thanks for stirring the pot storming!

 

[boss]

As far as #2, there's no doubt improvement has occurred. Unfortunately, the peak came about 3 weeks ago and has since deteriorated to inconsistent, wild swings between competitive, focused execution and gouge your eyes out awful.[/QUOTE]

There has been no improvement. We won 4 big ten games. Indiana is even more god awful than us, and we beat northwestern and penn state at home. northwestern and penn state. how is that improvement? If you played better a few times in the middle of the year and then play horrible at the end, that is not improvement. Sadly, we were way better at the beginning of the year. That is coaching. These people citing improvement are smoking crack. We got embarrassed against purdue on national TV. We just got embarrassed last night. Those players are seriously just playing games with Jon Lickliter. Did you see how easy Hughes picked his pocket last night? He is not a players coach, a teacher, or even that nice of guy for that matter. He makes the lousiest excuses. Its a joke. Wiscy could have beaten us by 40 if they wanted to. We are always a young team because we keep losing our upperclassmen. We go into games as a 20 point underdog. absolutely ridiculous and sad. Sure fuller is playing better, but that is not team improvement. Will someone who thinks there has been improvement please explain to me how we have improved?

 

[pmchawk]

Feel for them? Sorry but its but I can't feel bad for a bunch of kids that look like they don't want to play basketball. If they don't want to be on the court they can find something else to do and that includes Gatens crying ***.

that is the problem the guys want to play Basketball but aren't being allowed to with this system.

 

[NewMexHawk]

By the way, these guys are not kids...

When I was 18 I was available for the draft and 18-year old "kids" were dying by the thousands in Viet Nam, just like they are now in the mideast.

These "kids" are men and need to be treated as such...Many kids...18 to 22 are married and have families...they are no where near "kids" and to make statements like,

"they are only kids" is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.

 

[IAJay]

Are you SO cynical that you can't even accurately read what the man said? Gatens' statement was encouraging. This team hasn't given up on the future. Maybe this season, but he said they are looking forward, and want to focus on working to get better. He's not saying they've mailed it in and are getting out. He made it sound as though the players still feel there's hope for the future. I find that encouraging, because even being as competitive as I was (my high school was horrible at football from 2004-2007, when I played, but I never quit playing and working my a** off), I would have a hard time keeping that hope if I were on the team.

No, but I also understand the game of basketball which seems to be a rarity around here with some posters.

 

[boss]

I find that encouraging, because even being as competitive as I was (my high school was horrible at football from 2004-2007, when I played, but I never quit playing and working my a** off), I would have a hard time keeping that hope if I were on the team.

And if coach would have put you in, you would've won state, right? I love it when guys start talking about their high school football career and how "competitive" they were.

 

[storminspank]

Sorry I can not copy and paste. The only thing I left out was "HOPEFULLY,its motivation to keep working and go get them Sunday.I really don't think that changes anything. Thanks for stirring the pot storming!

hawky, I wasn't stirring the pot. I just the put the entire quote out there.

 

[tweeterhawk]

That's just wrong to take a quote like that out of context.

By the way, these guys are not kids...

When I was 18 I was available for the draft and 18-year old "kids" were dying by the thousands in Viet Nam, just like they are now in the mideast.

These "kids" are men and need to be treated as such...Many kids...18 to 22 are married and have families...they are no where near "kids" and to make statements like,

"they are only kids" is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.

I'm of that generation and lost friends in VN. I will give you

+1,000,000

 

[STILLBUSTER]

Re: Stillbuster...

I admire your reasoned and consistent approach. I'm a fairly rational guy in general but I'm such a passionate fan that I struggle with consistency and patience in my own approach to Iowa basketball.

The one part of your post that I wanted to respond to is the part about improvement. You say you've seen improvement "somewhat," and I agree in the limited sense that there have been games in which they have played better than they did at times last season and better than they've played at other times this season.

To me, however, if improvement is not sustained, it isn't improvement. It's an aberration. And that's all I think we've gotten from this team--anomalous spikes in the quality of play, notably coming for the most part against the lesser teams of the league.

Right now, I'm disgusted. My nature when it comes to Iowa hoops is that if it doesn't happen again for a while I can convince myself that there is reason to hang on without major changes. Unfortunately, I think it's probably going to happen two more times before the season mercifully ends, and if so I don't see how one can reasonably come away from this season with the sense that there was any meaningful improvement.

Thanks for the kudos, Freddy; the respect is mutual!

No doubt, these last 3 road games definitely have me questioning what I thought I was seeing a few weeks ago and go miles toward supporting you perspective. Yet, from back to back L's against Towson and Duquesne to now, I guess I see overall improvement -- like 1.5 steps forward, 1 step back.

Guess, to me, "lack of improvement" implies some sort of system flaw and I don't think that's the case. I'd explain (rationalize?) the jaw-dropping insconsistency between home and away over the last few weeks to sloppy execution and individual failures to finish before generalizing it to lack of improvement. As stated, of the starting 5, I think Payne and May have hit a wall, Fuller has delivered and Gatens and Cole have under-performed.

I really set my expectation bar low based on the defectors, freshmen and depth. Maybe I'm just grasping at straws but baby steps, man, baby steps.

 

[tm3308]

And if coach would have put you in, you would've won state, right? I love it when guys start talking about their high school football career and how "competitive" they were.

You completely missed my point there. I wasn't a guy who rode the pine, all I meant was that I hated losing as much as anyone, and I got sick of working hard with seemingly no payoff, but I kept working anyway. But I'm not sure if I would have had the kind of fortitude to keep working the way the Iowa basketball team is. So I give credit to them for that.

It's bad enough for us just watching this happen, watching the losing. It hurts a helluva lot more to be the ones out there losing. And at some point, it gets easy to give up. I give credit to these guys for not doing that.

 

[storminspank]

Re: Stillbuster...

Thanks for the kudos, Freddy; the respect is mutual!

No doubt, these last 3 road games definitely have me questioning what I thought I was seeing a few weeks ago and go miles toward supporting you perspective. Yet, from back to back L's against Towson and Duquesne to now, I guess I see overall improvement -- like 1.5 steps forward, 1 step back.

Guess, to me, "lack of improvement" implies some sort of system flaw and I don't think that's the case. I'd explain (rationalize?) the jaw-dropping insconsistency between home and away over the last few weeks to sloppy execution and individual failures to finish before generalizing it to lack of improvement. As stated, of the starting 5, I think Payne and May have hit a wall, Fuller has delivered and Gatens and Cole have under-performed.

I really set my expectation bar low based on the defectors, freshmen and depth. Maybe I'm just grasping at straws but baby steps, man, baby steps.

You continually remain one of my favorite posters.

That said, when did we play Towson?

 

[FreddyBrown]

Re: Stillbuster...

Maybe I'm just grasping at straws but baby steps, man, baby steps.

The problem for Lick, and therefore for us, is that starting from where we are right now (even putting aside any improvement made since the end of last season), is that "baby steps" would have us competitive in the Big Ten in what--2014?

I think it's safe to say that's not going to cut it from anyone's perspective.

I would be content, looking ahead to next season (not to be confused with "looking forward"), to know that if we don't have a .500 record in the Big Ten and an overall winning record next season, Lick would be gone. But I'm afraid that the people whose opinions matter will be looking for more "baby steps" and not the "one giant leap for Hawk-kind" that we really need.

 

[tm3308]

Re: Stillbuster...

The problem for Lick, and therefore for us, is that starting from where we are right now (even putting aside any improvement made since the end of last season), is that "baby steps" would have us competitive in the Big Ten in what--2014?

I think it's safe to say that's not going to cut it from anyone's perspective.

I would be content, looking ahead to next season (not to be confused with "looking forward"), to know that if we don't have a .500 record in the Big Ten and an overall winning record next season, Lick would be gone. But I'm afraid that the people whose opinions matter will be looking for more "baby steps" and not the "one giant leap for Hawk-kind" that we really need.

I agree with that, and feel that there are 3 criteria Lick can meet to satisfy me for next season, garnering another year:

1. Make the NIT (any trip to the postseason would be a HUGE improvement)
2. Win 10 BT games
3. Win 17 or more games overall (at least 7 of which would need to be in the BT for me to consider it valid)

If he does any of those three, then I'll be content to keep him a little longer.

 

[Cardhawks]

When I left the room last night it was 12-10, I literally was out of the room for 5 minutes and when I came back it was 28-10. That is pathetic! I turned the game off after that point. No need to subject my girlfriend or myself to that embarassment.

 

[boss]

You completely missed my point there. I wasn't a guy who rode the pine, all I meant was that I hated losing as much as anyone, and I got sick of working hard with seemingly no payoff, but I kept working anyway. But I'm not sure if I would have had the kind of fortitude to keep working the way the Iowa basketball team is. So I give credit to them for that.

It's bad enough for us just watching this happen, watching the losing. It hurts a helluva lot more to be the ones out there losing. And at some point, it gets easy to give up. I give credit to these guys for not doing that.

I actually got your point the first time and understand it. You failed to get my point as you feel the need to tell us in your 2nd post that "you weren't a guy who rode the pine." My point was that I think its laughable when someone talks about their high school football career on a message board regardless of the reason.