Manufacturing/Shipping Folks, What Are You Seeing?

Read Fry's stuff up above. Dude knows what's up. Another issue with the supply chain is that the commodity or product you want to buy may itself be in abundant supply, but the plastic pellets that make the bottle that your shampoo comes in could be stuck in Texas when they need to get to somewhere else to make the bottle. Without the bottle, you got no shampoo. Or it could be something stupid like the ink necessary to mark the bottle or the glue that goes on the back label with the UPC code or something. The stories I am hearing from dudes in manufacturing are crazy. It's eerie.
Most of us consumers (except those in the know like you guys above) have no idea how little of a hiccup can affect shipping and the snowball effect. We take it for granted when everything runs like a well oiled machine. It really makes one appreciate it when it does run smooth because there are a lot of logs in the fire with all the logistics.

Like you state, a vat of shampoo might be sitting there waiting for the damn plastic pellets to arrive to some other plastic mfg. company so bottles can be made for the shampoo company. It really is amazing when it works. I don't know when we are ever going to get back to that level or time, though, and what collateral damage we are going to incur.
 
So shipping costs on consumers is going to go astonishing high in the future?
Yep.

You're gonna see hyper inflation in the next few months like you've never seen it in our lifetimes.

Literally everything we consume is influenced by China. If you look around your house and office, chances are, it was either comletely made in China, made with components that came from China, or is made on equipment that comes from China that needs to be maintained or replaced. That shirt you're wearing that says "MADE IN VIETNAM?" Gets shipped through Chinese ports. That DeMarini bat you bought your kid that says "MADE IN USA?" Made in the USA with a plastic end cap, grip tape, decals, and paint that all came over here on a boat from China.

The reason you haven't seen shit get wild yet is because there's a lag between each step in the OEM --> distributor --> dealer/store --> end user chain. Once the OEM raises prices, each step down the line raises prices the same amount (or they go out of business), but the next step down has some amount of inventory to work through before they raise theirs.

For example lets say I import brake pads....

If I raise my prices by 25% the distributor I'm selling to does the same, but they might have 3 months of inventory to work through at old pricing before they raise theirs. Once the price increase makes it's way to the dealer/store level, they might have say, 4 weeks of inventory at their warehouse. But eventually it's gonna hit at the retail level, so watch the F out, my man. That TV you wanna buy next year is gonna cost $1,100 instead of $650. And I'm not exaggerating. International shipping costs are past low earth orbit and headed for Mars. The charts look like the walls of the Grand Canyon (google the FBX and Drewry indices if you wanna get depressed).

Bulky, inexpensive stuff is already feeling it here stateside. You're gonna see furniture stores (100% importers no matter what they say) drop like flies in the next year. Here's the deal with that stuff...you can google this as well...

Let's say you want to go to Ashley or wherever and by a couch. Every...single...one...of those pieces of furniture (unless you're buying ultra, ultra high end stuff) is made in China. Let's also make it simple and say that couch costs the furniture chain over here $300 each, and a container of 20 couches coming across the pond costs $5,000 to ship from China to Omaha (5 grand was the going rate 8 months ago). So now you've got $550 cost wrapped up in a couch ($300 EA + $250 to ship) and you sell it for say $650 to make a profit.

Well, right now that same container of couches costs you north of $30,000 to get to your door. That's $1,500 fucking dollars EACH COUCH just to get it here, which is five times the actual price of the thing when you bought it from the sweatshop. No one's going to pay $2,100 for a shitty Chinese couch that used to be $650. So, the companies try to do some funny math and sell at lower prices, but at the end of the day the numbers can't be moved around anymore and they go belly up. This is going to happen, my friend. It's when, not if. Big, bulky stuff isn't feasible to ship anymore because the container rate costs the same whether you ship 10 of somehting or 100,000 of something as long as it weighs less than 20,000 KG

Also keep in mind that my example above doesn't take into account the fact that 1) you can't even get a container anyway, and 2) the cost of the couch itself is going up too...
 
So shipping costs on consumers is going to go astonishing high in the future?
And here's another example of how stupid this thing is...

Go to any furniture retailer's website...this is Ashley. All looks hunk dorey and they'll let you place your order, but read the fine print. Allow 8-14 weeks. Yeah right. They ain't gonna get that couch in 8 months, let alone 8 weeks. And that's on every single piece of furniture on their website.

But they'll sure as hell take your money while you wait.

Capture1.JPG

And go try to buy a bike off of Scheel's or Dunham's or Dick's websites. Ain't gonna happen.

Trek, Specialized, Cannondale straight from the manufacturer (importer)? Same deal.
 
And here's another example of how stupid this thing is...

Go to any furniture retailer's website...this is Ashley. All looks hunk dorey and they'll let you place your order, but read the fine print. Allow 8-14 weeks. Yeah right. They ain't gonna get that couch in 8 months, let alone 8 weeks. And that's on every single piece of furniture on their website.

But they'll sure as hell take your money while you wait.

View attachment 7957

And go try to buy a bike off of Scheel's or Dunham's or Dick's websites. Ain't gonna happen.

Trek, Specialized, Cannondale straight from the manufacturer (importer)? Same deal.

When we got here we had a big house to fill and we bought all of our furniture from a local place that has a big inventory of stuff from North Carolina. The industry got obliterated up there by trade, but there are still some companies hanging on and my wife hates huge companies and she hates China so we ponied up the premium and bought the Made In The USA stuff. Even those places are having issues due to input shortages. But those NC factories that are left are hyper regional. They exist because they were able to arbitrage shipping and logistics to make up for their higher structural costs in the US. The "middle class" price range stuff probably doesn't go more than 500 miles from the factories and it is mainly bought by a small group of people who still recognize the brand equity in North Carolina furniture, which is not the vast majority of the mass market.

Appliances, furniture, cars, everything big is just completely and utterly fucked. Those shipping costs are going to rip through the economy. The level of massaging the Fed is going to have to do to pretend there is no inflation is going to be epic.

I can't believe it. Not to get political, but it's real hard not to remember Ross Perot complaining about a giant sucking sound and thinking about all of those stories similar to Maytag closing down in Newton and then how damned eerie it is walking around a big box store. That Maytag story has played out all across the country. The auto plants in Michigan. The tire factories in Indiana. The textile mills in South Carolina. The furniture plants in North Carolina. We all wanted cheap shit. We got it. And now we're gonna pay.

You old enough to remember the old Wal Mart commercials:

 
Not sure if it still is, but the Ashley furniture store in Platteville was once factory direct. Much of used to come directly from Mississippi or Arcadia, WI. Not only did you eliminate some middle man markups you usually got your order within 10-14 days.

That store (again over a decade ago) was also locally owned. You got a fair price but seldom got that big "sale" that the Rockford and Madison area stores constantly promoted.

Factory direct did allow the consumer, to shop with confidence however. They didn't have to rush their decision, like in a blowout sale, and didn't have to worry about the price being jacked back up a week or two later.

In some cases it didn't matter. Some consumers have it in the DNA that they can only buy when it's on sale. So they rush out and may not buy quite what they wanted.

For items like furniture sales generally suck anyway. It's the equivalent of swinging at the pitcher's pitch. But many continue to buy that way.
 
When we got here we had a big house to fill and we bought all of our furniture from a local place that has a big inventory of stuff from North Carolina. The industry got obliterated up there by trade, but there are still some companies hanging on and my wife hates huge companies and she hates China so we ponied up the premium and bought the Made In The USA stuff. Even those places are having issues due to input shortages. But those NC factories that are left are hyper regional. They exist because they were able to arbitrage shipping and logistics to make up for their higher structural costs in the US. The "middle class" price range stuff probably doesn't go more than 500 miles from the factories and it is mainly bought by a small group of people who still recognize the brand equity in North Carolina furniture, which is not the vast majority of the mass market.

Appliances, furniture, cars, everything big is just completely and utterly fucked. Those shipping costs are going to rip through the economy. The level of massaging the Fed is going to have to do to pretend there is no inflation is going to be epic.

I can't believe it. Not to get political, but it's real hard not to remember Ross Perot complaining about a giant sucking sound and thinking about all of those stories similar to Maytag closing down in Newton and then how damned eerie it is walking around a big box store. That Maytag story has played out all across the country. The auto plants in Michigan. The tire factories in Indiana. The textile mills in South Carolina. The furniture plants in North Carolina. We all wanted cheap shit. We got it. And now we're gonna pay.

You old enough to remember the old Wal Mart commercials:

I used to think the power grid was the biggest terrorism threat to our national security. Take out our power grid and we’re done.

But this eclipses that threat ten times over. Our economy and citizenry simply cannot survive without Chinese goods. Period. The genie is out of the bottle and can’t be put back in.

95% of everything we use is either made there or comes from parts made there. 95% of the rest is things that if produced stateside would be completely unaffordable by almost all Americans. Not only that, but even if you did decide to make stuff here, where are you going to find another 100,000,000 workers to do it?

China is now seeing how crippled we would be without them, and just like oil countries in the 70s they will from here on out control the supply to a price that suits them. And they will keep those prices at a place that makes us miserable.
 
I used to think the power grid was the biggest terrorism threat to our national security. Take out our power grid and we’re done.

But this eclipses that threat ten times over. Our economy and citizenry simply cannot survive without Chinese goods. Period. The genie is out of the bottle and can’t be put back in.

95% of everything we use is either made there or comes from parts made there. 95% of the rest is things that if produced stateside would be completely unaffordable by almost all Americans. Not only that, but even if you did decide to make stuff here, where are you going to find another 100,000,000 workers to do it?

China is now seeing how crippled we would be without them, and just like oil countries in the 70s they will from here on out control the supply to a price that suits them. And they will keep those prices at a place that makes us miserable.
There was a time when I thought our #1 terrorist target was Hoover Dam. Mess with it and you mess up the country from Texas to Las Vegas, Arizona, and So. California.
 
I used to think the power grid was the biggest terrorism threat to our national security. Take out our power grid and we’re done.

But this eclipses that threat ten times over. Our economy and citizenry simply cannot survive without Chinese goods. Period. The genie is out of the bottle and can’t be put back in.

95% of everything we use is either made there or comes from parts made there. 95% of the rest is things that if produced stateside would be completely unaffordable by almost all Americans. Not only that, but even if you did decide to make stuff here, where are you going to find another 100,000,000 workers to do it?

China is now seeing how crippled we would be without them, and just like oil countries in the 70s they will from here on out control the supply to a price that suits them. And they will keep those prices at a place that makes us miserable.

China is crippled wo the US consumer until more of Asia is brought up economically.

Our biggest threat is within due to corporatism.

What we can afford is completely dependent on the US dollar. The Dollar is whatever the fed wants it to be. We are like frogs in a boiling pot and happy as long as the stocks keep going up due to the Fed.

China is not a communist nation btw.

I now do gigs and for the moment doing well. You young ones better be flexible and multi talented or really good and something needed for while.
 
I seem to remember reading several years ago about countries on the African continent taking some of the low-wage manufacturing away from China. Don't know if that's really a thing or not.
 
Yep.

You're gonna see hyper inflation in the next few months like you've never seen it in our lifetimes.

Literally everything we consume is influenced by China. If you look around your house and office, chances are, it was either comletely made in China, made with components that came from China, or is made on equipment that comes from China that needs to be maintained or replaced. That shirt you're wearing that says "MADE IN VIETNAM?" Gets shipped through Chinese ports. That DeMarini bat you bought your kid that says "MADE IN USA?" Made in the USA with a plastic end cap, grip tape, decals, and paint that all came over here on a boat from China.

The reason you haven't seen shit get wild yet is because there's a lag between each step in the OEM --> distributor --> dealer/store --> end user chain. Once the OEM raises prices, each step down the line raises prices the same amount (or they go out of business), but the next step down has some amount of inventory to work through before they raise theirs.

For example lets say I import brake pads....

If I raise my prices by 25% the distributor I'm selling to does the same, but they might have 3 months of inventory to work through at old pricing before they raise theirs. Once the price increase makes it's way to the dealer/store level, they might have say, 4 weeks of inventory at their warehouse. But eventually it's gonna hit at the retail level, so watch the F out, my man. That TV you wanna buy next year is gonna cost $1,100 instead of $650. And I'm not exaggerating. International shipping costs are past low earth orbit and headed for Mars. The charts look like the walls of the Grand Canyon (google the FBX and Drewry indices if you wanna get depressed).

Bulky, inexpensive stuff is already feeling it here stateside. You're gonna see furniture stores (100% importers no matter what they say) drop like flies in the next year. Here's the deal with that stuff...you can google this as well...

Let's say you want to go to Ashley or wherever and by a couch. Every...single...one...of those pieces of furniture (unless you're buying ultra, ultra high end stuff) is made in China. Let's also make it simple and say that couch costs the furniture chain over here $300 each, and a container of 20 couches coming across the pond costs $5,000 to ship from China to Omaha (5 grand was the going rate 8 months ago). So now you've got $550 cost wrapped up in a couch ($300 EA + $250 to ship) and you sell it for say $650 to make a profit.

Well, right now that same container of couches costs you north of $30,000 to get to your door. That's $1,500 fucking dollars EACH COUCH just to get it here, which is five times the actual price of the thing when you bought it from the sweatshop. No one's going to pay $2,100 for a shitty Chinese couch that used to be $650. So, the companies try to do some funny math and sell at lower prices, but at the end of the day the numbers can't be moved around anymore and they go belly up. This is going to happen, my friend. It's when, not if. Big, bulky stuff isn't feasible to ship anymore because the container rate costs the same whether you ship 10 of somehting or 100,000 of something as long as it weighs less than 20,000 KG

Also keep in mind that my example above doesn't take into account the fact that 1) you can't even get a container anyway, and 2) the cost of the couch itself is going up too...

I guess I'll finally be buying from the local Amish now!! It will be more affordable.
 
Yep.

You're gonna see hyper inflation in the next few months like you've never seen it in our lifetimes.

Literally everything we consume is influenced by China. If you look around your house and office, chances are, it was either comletely made in China, made with components that came from China, or is made on equipment that comes from China that needs to be maintained or replaced. That shirt you're wearing that says "MADE IN VIETNAM?" Gets shipped through Chinese ports. That DeMarini bat you bought your kid that says "MADE IN USA?" Made in the USA with a plastic end cap, grip tape, decals, and paint that all came over here on a boat from China.

The reason you haven't seen shit get wild yet is because there's a lag between each step in the OEM --> distributor --> dealer/store --> end user chain. Once the OEM raises prices, each step down the line raises prices the same amount (or they go out of business), but the next step down has some amount of inventory to work through before they raise theirs.

For example lets say I import brake pads....

If I raise my prices by 25% the distributor I'm selling to does the same, but they might have 3 months of inventory to work through at old pricing before they raise theirs. Once the price increase makes it's way to the dealer/store level, they might have say, 4 weeks of inventory at their warehouse. But eventually it's gonna hit at the retail level, so watch the F out, my man. That TV you wanna buy next year is gonna cost $1,100 instead of $650. And I'm not exaggerating. International shipping costs are past low earth orbit and headed for Mars. The charts look like the walls of the Grand Canyon (google the FBX and Drewry indices if you wanna get depressed).

Bulky, inexpensive stuff is already feeling it here stateside. You're gonna see furniture stores (100% importers no matter what they say) drop like flies in the next year. Here's the deal with that stuff...you can google this as well...

Let's say you want to go to Ashley or wherever and by a couch. Every...single...one...of those pieces of furniture (unless you're buying ultra, ultra high end stuff) is made in China. Let's also make it simple and say that couch costs the furniture chain over here $300 each, and a container of 20 couches coming across the pond costs $5,000 to ship from China to Omaha (5 grand was the going rate 8 months ago). So now you've got $550 cost wrapped up in a couch ($300 EA + $250 to ship) and you sell it for say $650 to make a profit.

Well, right now that same container of couches costs you north of $30,000 to get to your door. That's $1,500 fucking dollars EACH COUCH just to get it here, which is five times the actual price of the thing when you bought it from the sweatshop. No one's going to pay $2,100 for a shitty Chinese couch that used to be $650. So, the companies try to do some funny math and sell at lower prices, but at the end of the day the numbers can't be moved around anymore and they go belly up. This is going to happen, my friend. It's when, not if. Big, bulky stuff isn't feasible to ship anymore because the container rate costs the same whether you ship 10 of somehting or 100,000 of something as long as it weighs less than 20,000 KG

Also keep in mind that my example above doesn't take into account the fact that 1) you can't even get a container anyway, and 2) the cost of the couch itself is going up too...
What is your definition of hyper inflation? Maybe moderate, or more than likely deflation. Way extra cash is needed for moderate inflation. That cash would need to be created by fractional reserve lending which is really low and not going anywhere.

The supply of cash is strong but there is no lending.
 
There are a number of factors that have to come into play for hyperinflation. There has to be no confidence in the Govt and the currency. We are not close to that happening. The dollar is still and will be for some time the main global currency. Why? Because currency values are in relation to all others and nothing can takes it's place. The Fed has been trying to devalue the dollar for sometime to no real avail. Others are worse. Who else is going to be the sought after currency. No one..

National debt has to be immense. As large as it is it's like someone with 100k income paying off a 100k mortgage. Not there yet.

A failing economy is required. Not there yet and likely no time soon. Even if we take, who is going to be that much better? China is still a very poor country for the masses per capita and their wealth distribution is worse.... not communist.

We are printing and hoarding money. That is an ingredient...
 

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However, fractional reserve lending creates money velocity (how fast money goes through the system. We aren't lending and thus we have no real extra money going through the system. It's stagnant after a big drop off. The only reason banks loan anything is that they are more or less being force to do that with negative rates.
 

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There was a time when I thought our #1 terrorist target was Hoover Dam. Mess with it and you mess up the country from Texas to Las Vegas, Arizona, and So. California.

Not a lot of water in Hoover Dam right now

And diminishing more every day

If it was blown up now the initial torrent would perhaps soon become a trinkle
 
Hey dudes, not to build into the "Christmas comes earlier every year" trope, but if you have kids and want to buy them presents, I'd get on it now. The Christmas inventory needs to be cycling through right now and it ain't. There's too much backlog. The door to door logistics (UPS, FedEx and USPS) are going to be in even worse shape this year. They're already understaffed and the flex labor just ain't gonna be there. I think we're gonna see materially longer delivery times if you go mail order.
 
Hey dudes, not to build into the "Christmas comes earlier every year" trope, but if you have kids and want to buy them presents, I'd get on it now. The Christmas inventory needs to be cycling through right now and it ain't. There's too much backlog. The door to door logistics (UPS, FedEx and USPS) are going to be in even worse shape this year. They're already understaffed and the flex labor just ain't gonna be there. I think we're gonna see materially longer delivery times if you go mail order.
I mentioned earlier that we're being forced to transload...

Well, we knew this was eventually going to happen, but it already is. Transloaders are telling us they don't have warehouse capacity so they won't offload from the boat. So...that means we tell our guy in China not to keep shipping product. And that means he tells his factories not to make or stuff because there's no way to store it.

We don't offer customers lead times anymore, some of our larger equipment is next June at the very earliest. And we also don't give pricing. It's priced at the time of shipment which could be 6-10 months from now. Funny thing is, we are booked solid out as far as the eye can see. High prices and uncertainty of deliveries aren't stopping anyone or even slowing it down. People are happy to put deposits ,down on production slots out in the future without knowing 1) when they'll get their product, and 2) how much it will cost.

The amount of demand out there is absolutely staggering. When this cracks it's going to hurt...bad.
 

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