Manufacturing/Shipping Folks, What Are You Seeing?

[Fryowa]

Hey dudes, not to build into the "Christmas comes earlier every year" trope, but if you have kids and want to buy them presents, I'd get on it now. The Christmas inventory needs to be cycling through right now and it ain't. There's too much backlog. The door to door logistics (UPS, FedEx and USPS) are going to be in even worse shape this year. They're already understaffed and the flex labor just ain't gonna be there. I think we're gonna see materially longer delivery times if you go mail order.

Was in the Spencer, IA Walmart last night and the shelves are getting bare.

Especially noticeable in the toy department. I'm assuming it's a mix of people hearing buzz about Christmas toy availability and actual supply issues. Instead of a run on toilet paper this Christmas it's going to be a run on G.I. Joes.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Was in the Spencer, IA Walmart last night and the shelves are getting bare.

Especially noticeable in the toy department. I'm assuming it's a mix of people hearing buzz about Christmas toy availability and actual supply issues. Instead of a run on toilet paper this Christmas it's going to be a run on G.I. Joes.

Yep. Same issue here. Target and Wal Mart are running low. Wal Mart always ran a lean inventory even before The Germ, but now it is throwing off vibes of Eastern Europe circa 1985. Target was usually sitting on an inventory that just dwindled over a few days but if you went on say a Wednesday, the shelves were 80-90% full. Now it's like 50%, maybe 40%.

 

[Fryowa]

Yep. Same issue here. Target and Wal Mart are running low. Wal Mart always ran a lean inventory even before The Germ, but now it is throwing off vibes of Eastern Europe circa 1985. Target was usually sitting on an inventory that just dwindled over a few days but if you went on say a Wednesday, the shelves were 80-90% full. Now it's like 50%, maybe 40%.

I follow the trade publications pretty close, and I'm reading that Walmart is chartering 3 more ships strictly for itself which would make 4 total. The bigger Maersk and Evergreen ships average like 3,000 20' containers so you can imagine the money we're talking. What I read says they're paying around $40,000 a day to charter each one and that's in addition to the freight costs. 4 ships at $40k per day for say, 25 days across the pond is $4M. Sounds like a lot but it ain't shit when you consider 12,000 containers at $20k a piece is a quarter of a billion dollars just in freight. And that's just to get it to port, not distributed to their warehouses and then stores. Even if we assume Walmart has the negotiating power to cut the $20k per container cost in half, that's still $120,000,000 to get 4 ships from Asia to LA.

If this keeps up for a long time I can see Walmart and Amazon getting into the international freight business and being permanent ship lessees. I'm really surprised they haven't yet, if there's anyone good at ridiculously efficient logistics, it's Walmart and Amazon. They'd put a bunch of big brains on the issue and probably get the cost down by two thirds.

It'd sure as shit be more cost effective than the planes Amazon is leasing to move stuff around domestically.

 

[okeefe4prez]

If this keeps up for a long time I can see Walmart and Amazon getting into the international freight business and being permanent ship lessees. I'm really surprised they haven't yet, if there's anyone good at ridiculously efficient logistics, it's Walmart and Amazon. They'd put a bunch of big brains on the issue and probably get the cost down by two thirds.

They can lease all the ships they want, but it ain't gonna help in the near term. When that ship pulls up at Long Beach, they're still gonna be 27th in line to unload and then they're still gonna be stuck with the deconsolidation and getting product off the dock issues that exist today. The problem is the ports were probably running at 99.8% capacity on February 1, 2020. With the shutdowns and variability, the backlog is going to take a long time to work through. As you know, it ain't just the ports. The freaking rail system is at the breaking point.

 

[Fryowa]

They can lease all the ships they want, but it ain't gonna help in the near term. When that ship pulls up at Long Beach, they're still gonna be 27th in line to unload and then they're still gonna be stuck with the deconsolidation and getting product off the dock issues that exist today. The problem is the ports were probably running at 99.8% capacity on February 1, 2020. With the shutdowns and variability, the backlog is going to take a long time to work through. As you know, it ain't just the ports. The freaking rail system is at the breaking point.

I'd almost guarantee you they're paying for priority at the ports, at least in China where you can get away with that. The back log is in both places.

I have a hard time believing that Walmart's loads are sitting while other loads made up of 100+ customers' stuff goes first.

And what I really see is them making investment into ports and getting a few of their own docks. Lease the ships, use their own docks, and pay the Chinese government a whore house blackmail "expeditious priority fee" which is still way cheaper than not having product here in the states and paying $20,000 a container to get it here.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I'd almost guarantee you they're paying for priority at the ports, at least in China where you can get away with that. The back log is in both places.

I have a hard time believing that Walmart's loads are sitting while other loads made up of 100+ customers' stuff goes first.

And what I really see is them making investment into ports and getting a few of their own docks. Lease the ships, use their own docks, and pay the Chinese government a whore house blackmail "expeditious priority fee" which is still way cheaper than not having product here in the states and paying $20,000 a container to get it here.

Yeah, maybe you're right that they can grease the line in the US by paying Maersk some monstrous bounty. The China side is difficult. Wal Mart has a cadre of FCPA gurus whose assholes will clinch up if they even mention anything looking remotely like an actual bribe. There's probably some way to buy preference over there, but I guarandamntee you someone is losing sleep because he knows his ass is on the line if it winds up being a FCPA problem because he will absolutely be the one thrown under the bus. "RICK IN LEGAL TOLD US THIS WAS FINE!!! WHAT DO YOU MEAN HE WAS WRONG?" If I were them I'd keep an open line of communication with former politburo Hill-Dawg bince she was on the board. She can probably still make a few phone calls to help "smooth over" issues like that. I'd be more nervous if I were Amazon because they are becoming a bit of a political hot potato.

 

[Scotttyd]

The houses down here all have two ACs and two furnaces. My buddy is under contract on a new build. It looks good, all is going well. They called and said "good news and bad news, good news is construction will be complete by Thanksgiving just like we said, bad news is we can't get furnaces or ACs until God knows when... and oh by the way I hope you weren't too in love with the appliances you picked because the fridge and stove are gonna be different." Of course they are offering to terminate, but the price is probably up $100k since he signed the contract so that's a non-starter. This dude is considering moving the HVAC systems out of his existing house (built 2010) into the new house just to get the certificate of occupancy to be able to close and move in.

Have another buddy who just two weeks ago got a new F-150 work truck. He works for a city government and they bought it in December with extra money they had to spend before the end of the fiscal year. The dealer delivered it July 15. Took almost 8 months. Said they want to order more this year, but the dealer will not give a firm commitment on delivery.

that is funny on the AC comment - mine went out last week - awesome when it is 96 with a heat index of 109 - they ordered mine and it was in within 72 hours

 

[SmokeTownHawk]

So, stupid question time. Knowing all the issues and costs with shipping from China nowadays, even factoring in the higher cost of labor in the U.S., at what point do some companies start to think about bringing at least some manufacturing back to the states, and for what products?

 

[okeefe4prez]

So, stupid question time. Knowing all the issues and costs with shipping from China nowadays, even factoring in the higher cost of labor in the U.S., at what point do some companies start to think about bringing at least some manufacturing back to the states, and for what products?

Domestic manufacturing will be hard to bring back. This is a boon for Mexico. At least the government realizes the gravity of the situation between logistics and the China-Taiwan situation and is massively subsidizing the chip foundry business domestically. If we have no chip supply we have no economy.

 

[Fryowa]

So, stupid question time. Knowing all the issues and costs with shipping from China nowadays, even factoring in the higher cost of labor in the U.S., at what point do some companies start to think about bringing at least some manufacturing back to the states, and for what products?

We are in the middle of this conundrum right now.

In a nut shell, it's not coming back to the US. There really isn't that price point where it comes back, because to get to that point there would have been a total economic collapse. You might see some big bulky cheap stuff like furniture come back, but that's about it.

I'll give you an example. One of our customers wanted a made in the USA trailer ball coupler. Big EAUs, big project. So this wasn't some little production run...Anyway, we already have that style and model of coupler they're looking for in any number of combinations. But this customer was dead set and adamant that it's 100% made here. No, "made in the USA from global components."

Well here's the problem...no one in the USA makes couplers anymore. No one. Every ball coupler you buy on any trailer you buy in the states is made in China. Curt, Reese, Pull-Rite, etc...basically if you have a trailer made in the last 25-30 years for anything weather it's a camper, boat, utility trailer, flat bed...it's coupler and most everything else on it is Chinese. And that's no exaggeration.

So what we had to do is go find a company willing to make a casting mold which has a lot of cost. I think it was somewhere like $55K just for the tooling and the mold (we didn't pay for it, the customer did). Then we had to pay for samples, run them through our testing, and after approval we got quotes. Our cost buying like 20,000 year ended up being like $53.00 a piece and change. We buy the identical coupler from China for less than $6.00 SHIPPED to our door. And that is no lie.

I've been over there to tour factories and inventory our tools (I'll make a side post about this, it's pretty interesting), and until you see it first hand you can't understand how there's such a disparity. Basically there's absolutely no worker protections whatsoever. There's no OSHA, child labor laws, no minimum safety standards other than what would keep people from getting killed because the government needs workers.

They pay a 16 year old girl in flip flops a few bucks a day to sit in a freezing cold factory and push buttons on a hundred year old punch press for 12 hours. They don't have to pay work comp insurance, health insurance, taxes, retirement funding, etc. They don't have to spend money on safety training, PPE like gloves, safety glasses, blah blah blah. One plant we were in they were burning pallet wood in barrels for heat. In-fucking-doors.

In the US you have to pay 3 people $28.00 an hour plus overtime and health insurance and taxes and work comp insurance and 401K contributions and PPE and training and machinery maintenance and wellness programs and PTO and a million other things to do the same job. That's no exaggeration. It's literally like stepping back into the 1920s factory conditions.

And you know what happened? Mr rah rah rah USA #1 company saw the price and told us to stick it up our asses and they bought the Chinese slave labor one instead. At least they saved money not having to buy the "Made In USA" decals.

 

[HawkGold]

This has been occurring for quite some time. It's really not a Democrat or Republican thing. The avalanche started in 1980 when there stopped being a hostility between Govt and big business (though it was always there). The Clinton Admin was really the last Admin to prosecute price-fixing and unfair business practices though I wouldn't praise them for it as they did it for political reasons.

When China gets too expensive on labor things will go to other poor countries. Not sure how a nation like the US can continue to be "rich" with some much going overseas and so much wealth tied up with a few individuals.

One of the biggest good points the US had was a tax system that with flaws caused asset turnover between generations. The system encouraged investment over hoarding. We effectively killed that.

We basically keep monetizing our debt and give the appearance that our 401ks are growing when it's really a policy trick.

I just got back from Montana and Wyoming. I was shocked in west Montana about some of the poverty. Rural Illinois is falling apart and it used to be far higher in living standards than Iowa. In rural ND where I lived, the town (away from oil) looked so much worse than it used to look. A MN town I lived in has really gone down hill.

One thing surprised me was 30 miles of grain cars lined up in east Montana. They should be moving into place by now. There is an extreme drought in MN, Montana, and the Dakotas. Not sure how to analyze it unless they are thinking the rail hoppers aren't needed.

 

[okeefe4prez]

We are in the middle of this conundrum right now.

In a nut shell, it's not coming back to the US. There really isn't that price point where it comes back, because to get to that point there would have been a total economic collapse. You might see some big bulky cheap stuff like furniture come back, but that's about it.

I'll give you an example. One of our customers wanted a made in the USA trailer ball coupler. Big EAUs, big project. So this wasn't some little production run...Anyway, we already have that style and model of coupler they're looking for in any number of combinations. But this customer was dead set and adamant that it's 100% made here. No, "made in the USA from global components."

Well here's the problem...no one in the USA makes couplers anymore. No one. Every ball coupler you buy on any trailer you buy in the states is made in China. Curt, Reese, Pull-Rite, etc...basically if you have a trailer made in the last 25-30 years for anything wheather it's a camper, boat, utility trailer, flat bed...it's Chinese. And that's no exaggeration.

So what we had to do is go find a company willing to make a casting mold which has a lot of cost. I think it was somewhere like $55K just for the tooling and the mold (we didn't pay for it, the customer did). Then we had to pay for samples, run them through our testing, and after approval we got quotes. Our cost buying like 20,000 year ended up being like $53.00 a piece and change. We buy the identical coupler from China for less than $6.00. And that is no lie.

I've been over there to tour factories and inventory our tools (I'll make a side post about this, it's pretty interesting), and until you see it first hand you can't understand how there's such a disparity. Basically there's absolutely no worker protections whatsoever. There's no OSHA, child labor laws, no minimum safety standards other than what would keep people from getting killed because the government needs workers.

They pay a 16 year old girl in flip flops a few bucks a day to sit in a freezing cold factory and push buttons on a hundred year old punch press for 12 hours. They don't have to pay work comp insurance, health insurance, taxes, retirement funding, etc. They don't have to spend money on safety training, PPE like gloves, safety glasses, blah blah blah. One plant we were in they were burning pallet wood in barrels for heat. In-fucking-doors.

In the US you have to pay 3 people $28.00 an hour plus overtime and health insurance and taxes and work comp insurance and 401K contributions and PPE and training and machinery maintenance and wellness programs and PTO and a million other things to do the same job. That's no exaggeration. It's literally like stepping back into the 1920s factory conditions.

And you know what happened? Mr rah rah rah USA #1 company saw the price and told us to stick it up our asses and they bought the Chinese slave labor one instead. At least they saved money not having to buy the "Made In USA" decals.

Amen. Jim Rome voice "Rack him."

Americans have no idea, they have NO IDEA, the level of abject poverty in Asia, Africa and South America. If you are American and you really care, start by buying shoes and clothes that were made in the USA. They are expensive. Everyone needs to start doing it. Unless there is a market signal to business to change, they'll keep running the sweat shops and maquiladoras (sp).

 

[okeefe4prez]

This has been occurring for quite some time. It's really not a Democrat or Republican thing. The avalanche started in 1980 when there stopped being a hostility between Govt and big business (though it was always there). The Clinton Admin was really the last Admin to prosecute price-fixing and unfair business practices though I wouldn't praise them for it as they did it for political reasons.

When China gets too expensive on labor things will go to other poor countries. Not sure how a nation like the US can continue to be "rich" with some much going overseas and so much wealth tied up with a few individuals.

One of the biggest good points the US had was a tax system that with flaws caused asset turnover between generations. The system encouraged investment over hoarding. We effectively killed that.

We basically keep monetizing our debt and give the appearance that our 401ks are growing when it's really a policy trick.

I just got back from Montana and Wyoming. I was shocked in west Montana about some of the poverty. Rural Illinois is falling apart and it used to be far higher in living standards than Iowa. In rural ND where I lived, the town (away from oil) looked so much worse than it used to look. A MN town I lived in has really gone down hill.

One thing surprised me was 30 miles of grain cars lined up in east Montana. They should be moving into place by now. There is an extreme drought in MN, Montana, and the Dakotas. Not sure how to analyze it unless they are thinking the rail hoppers aren't needed.

Wrong board, but you're right it's not a Democrat or Republican thing, it's a Democrat AND Republican thing because government is 100% controlled by moneyed interests and if you try to do anything against the interest of those groups, look out below. My mom used to be a Democrat and I remember how livid she was when Bill Clinton was pushing NAFTA back in '92.

It's not all political, though. The US had the best capital base going into WWII. It aged, we got left in the dust. The politburos give lip service to what Fry mentioned above, but at the end of the day they aren't going to do shit to impose trade sanctions over working conditions or environmental harm. The disinflation caused by trade with China, Mexico, Vietnam, etc. has smoothed over the issues that would typically arise if you monetize debt the way the US has. They know that without that disinflation there would be massive issues brewing. "Hey prole, Rockford, Illinois, Flint, Michigan, Akron, Ohio and 200 similar towns have all been rendered absolute shitholes, but look at this $88 TV Wal Mart has - you can even stream NETFLIX, yes NETFLIX, on it and you'll never even have to get up to change the channel - you have it great!"

 

[Fryowa]

One thing surprised me was 30 miles of grain cars lined up in east Montana. They should be moving into place by now. There is an extreme drought in MN, Montana, and the Dakotas. Not sure how to analyze it unless they are thinking the rail hoppers aren't needed.

As a guy involved in ag and shipping, I can tell you that this is not a problem at all.

1) Grain cars are waaaaaay long in supply. We have too many actually. The last time I looked at the durable goods ag numbers we had 295,000 grain cars in the US not including Canadian. We have enough that even at max harvest, if harvest all happened on the same day, we wouldn't fill them all when you take out what's trucked to elevators and ethanol plants. AAR has said max harvest would only fill 80-ish percent.

2) Grain is long to neutral in supply. We aren't at a point where it's a long lead time item or where it can't be moved same or next day at any elevator or ethanol plant.

3) Rail cars are just another form of storage, and it doesn't really cost more to let it sit. Corn, beans, and wheat can all sit no problemo in a grain car just like an elevator as long as it's not geting wet for extended periods. It's really no different than storing it vertically or out on the ground which is super common where I live. You can let corn sit in a car all winter frozen and dump it in the spring or whenever you want.

The problem with US rail isn't capacity, it's utilization. Port and terminal bottlenecks (self-imposed) are what's doing it.

 

[HawkGold]

As a guy involved in ag and shipping, I can tell you that this is not a problem at all.

1) Grain cars are waaaaaay long in supply. We have too many actually. The last time I looked at the durable goods ag numbers we had 295,000 grain cars in the US not including Canadian. We have enough that even at max harvest, if harvest all happened on the same day, we wouldn't fill them all when you take out what's trucked to elevators and ethanol plants. AAR has said max harvest would only fill 80-ish percent.

2) Grain is long to neutral in supply. We aren't at a point where it's a long lead time item or where it can't be moved same or next day at any elevator or ethanol plant.

3) Rail cars are just another form of storage, and it doesn't really cost more to let it sit. Corn, beans, and wheat can all sit no problemo in a grain car just like an elevator as long as it's not geting wet for extended periods. It's really no different than storing it vertically or out on the ground which is super common where I live. You can let corn sit in a car all winter frozen and dump it in the spring or whenever you want.

The problem with US rail isn't capacity, it's utilization. Port and terminal bottlenecks (self-imposed) are what's doing it.

I've never really paid attention to grain going west from the upper midwest as in IL we are more concerned about going south to the Gulf. When I do estimates for price analysis. The upper midwest produces significant amounts of corn and beans, but the yield per acres is pretty low. I had never seen this before as I don't go thru E Montana much. It was quite a sight.

Ethanol has changed the game as they've caused a number of independent small town elevators to close. Basis is crap in the upper Midwest and parts of Iowa.

I didn't think it was an issue but thought you'd have something to say about it. Thx. It did remind of what happened in the Great Recession only then not with grain cars. My guess is after my trip that yields are overestimated. In central IL where things look great, there is some ear tipping and beans have a LOT of vegetative growth w/o a lot of pods. SD, ND and MN look awful for crops in general.

 

[Fryowa]

I've never really paid attention to grain going west from the upper midwest as in IL we are more concerned about going south to the Gulf. When I do estimates for price analysis. The upper midwest produces significant amounts of corn and beans, but the yield per acres is pretty low. I had never seen this before as I don't go thru E Montana much. It was quite a sight.

Ethanol has changed the game as they've caused a number of independent small town elevators to close. Basis is crap in the upper Midwest and parts of Iowa.

I didn't think it was an issue but thought you'd have something to say about it. Thx. It did remind of what happened in the Great Recession only then not with grain cars. My guess is after my trip that yields are overestimated. In central IL where things look great, there is some ear tipping and beans have a LOT of vegetative growth w/o a lot of pods. SD, ND and MN look awful for crops in general.

One thing a lot of people don't think about is with corn and beans (not as much with wheat) is the improvement in crop genetics. Droughts really aren't an issue for those two crops (by leaps and bounds the highest dollar and volume production in the US). Where I live in NW we were in severe/exceptional drought most of the summer and our yields are going to be close to record as well. Our territory managers in IL and IN are saying the same thing there. We have local guys in NW calc'ing out at 220-230 bu/acre pre harvest. They don't miss those numbers by much because they plan for fuel and storage by those figures.

It takes such a small amount of water to grow corn and beans now with the hybrids they have on the market it's unreal. People automatically assume with drought it's going to kill yields, but you have to get into some pretty shitty soil like Texas/Oklahoma/etc. before that starts happening. And the production even in good years isn't much proportionally from those areas. It's selfish, but we need to protect Iowa, Illinois, Nebraska, and Minnesota; the rest of those states are what they are.

It's not just yields either. Remember 20 years ago and there were fields of corn getting blown over all the time, and there were corn and beans getting hailed out somewhere every summer. It takes a pretty exceptional hail storm and some pretty ridiculous winds to do that know. The leaves and stalks are bulletproof. And even if they do get nailed, there are so many good short time hybrids that there's plenty of window to replant. Becks has a test plot right outside my town and they have a 60 day corn that got 162 bushels last year. It wasn't long ago that 162 was a pipe dream from full season corn. It's bonkers.

 

[HawkGold]

One thing a lot of people don't think about is with corn and beans (not as much with wheat) is the improvement in crop genetics. Droughts really aren't an issue for those two crops (by leaps and bounds the highest dollar and volume production in the US). Where I live in NW we were in severe/exceptional drought most of the summer and our yields are going to be close to record as well. Our territory managers in IL and IN are saying the same thing there. We have local guys in NW calc'ing out at 220-230 bu/acre pre harvest. They don't miss those numbers by much because they plan for fuel and storage by those figures.

It takes such a small amount of water to grow corn and beans now with the hybrids they have on the market it's unreal. People automatically assume with drought it's going to kill yields, but you have to get into some pretty shitty soil like Texas/Oklahoma/etc. before that starts happening. And the production even in good years isn't much proportionally from those areas. It's selfish, but we need to protect Iowa, Illinois, Nebraska, and Minnesota; the rest of those states are what they are.

It's not just yields either. Remember 20 years ago and there were fields of corn getting blown over all the time, and there were corn and beans getting hailed out somewhere every summer. It takes a pretty exceptional hail storm and some pretty ridiculous winds to do that know. The leaves and stalks are bulletproof. And even if they do get nailed, there are so many good short time hybrids that there's plenty of window to replant. Becks has a test plot right outside my town and they have a 60 day corn that got 162 bushels last year. It wasn't long ago that 162 was a pipe dream from full season corn. It's bonkers.

Totally agree. In a drought, the biggest issue is insect damage. That has been eliminated though we are seeing growth in non gmo varieties. Yesterday I drove down I 29 and things looked better than expected though the plant health is deteriorating rapidly. I hadn't been to ND in years and was surprised to see so much corn/beans in the central and some in the west. Becks does incredible research but they are gimmicky in marketing.

I had a central IL field last year that got hit by hail hard and had 75 bu on corn and 25 on beans. It looked like a war zone.

 

[okeefe4prez]

One thing a lot of people don't think about is with corn and beans (not as much with wheat) is the improvement in crop genetics. Droughts really aren't an issue for those two crops (by leaps and bounds the highest dollar and volume production in the US). Where I live in NW we were in severe/exceptional drought most of the summer and our yields are going to be close to record as well. Our territory managers in IL and IN are saying the same thing there. We have local guys in NW calc'ing out at 220-230 bu/acre pre harvest. They don't miss those numbers by much because they plan for fuel and storage by those figures.

It takes such a small amount of water to grow corn and beans now with the hybrids they have on the market it's unreal. People automatically assume with drought it's going to kill yields, but you have to get into some pretty shitty soil like Texas/Oklahoma/etc. before that starts happening. And the production even in good years isn't much proportionally from those areas. It's selfish, but we need to protect Iowa, Illinois, Nebraska, and Minnesota; the rest of those states are what they are.

It's not just yields either. Remember 20 years ago and there were fields of corn getting blown over all the time, and there were corn and beans getting hailed out somewhere every summer. It takes a pretty exceptional hail storm and some pretty ridiculous winds to do that know. The leaves and stalks are bulletproof. And even if they do get nailed, there are so many good short time hybrids that there's plenty of window to replant. Becks has a test plot right outside my town and they have a 60 day corn that got 162 bushels last year. It wasn't long ago that 162 was a pipe dream from full season corn. It's bonkers.

Some people grow corn here. Small fields, nothing like Iowa. It is the most sickly shit I have ever seen. And we get plenty of rain, it's just that the soil is this hard red clay and it ain't good for growing anything other than peaches and strawlberries.

 

[Fryowa]

Some people grow corn here. Small fields, nothing like Iowa. It is the most sickly shit I have ever seen. And we get plenty of rain, it's just that the soil is this hard red clay and it ain't good for growing anything other than peaches and strawlberries.

NW Iowa we're at about 13 foot tall plants depending on the hybrid. 20 years ago 8-10 feet was on the high side.

Think about that for a minute. Our average corn plant is 3 feet taller than a basketball hoop now.

These crop geneticists are mad scientists.

 

[okeefe4prez]

NW Iowa we're at about 13 foot tall plants depending on the hybrid. 20 years ago 8-10 feet was on the high side.

Think about that for a minute. Our average corn plant is 3 feet taller than a basketball hoop now.

These crop geneticists are mad scientists.

I haven't been to Iowa in summer in several years so I haven't seen such plants. That is insane. I watched a few minutes of the Field of Dreams game and had assumed they planted that corn around there early and protected it from frost or perhaps brought seedlings in, but if it hits 13 foot now, maybe that was just regularly planted with everything else.

I mentioned I worked at Pioneer back in the '90's. Those dudes from ISU and Illinois who fiddle with the seeds are smart as shit.