Major Violation

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Zamboni08 said:
Let me preface: no, I do not think there are any legit violations going on here.

But, those of you barking "1st amendment" this and that, clearly don't understand the entirety of freedom of speech. Freedom of speech does not necessarily mean freedom from any consequences.
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True, speech has consequences but I think you are missing the point. The 1st amendment is much more than just freedom of speech. It includes provisions for freedom of the press, freedom of religion and in the case of this rally yesterday the "freedom to assemble" or sometimes referred to as "freedom of association". In the case of the athletes yesterday they did not endorse anyone at the rally they simply "assembled".
 
Hawk1960 said:
True, speech has consequences but I think you are missing the point. The 1st amendment is much more than just freedom of speech. It includes provisions for freedom of the press, freedom of religion and in the case of this rally yesterday the "freedom to assemble" or sometimes referred to as "freedom of association". In the case of the athletes yesterday they did not speak at the rally they simply "assembled".
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I don't disagree. I didn't think this was even remotely close to a violation

But to those thinking that the first amendment would override a rule set by the NCAA (if there WERE a violation) is incorrect.
 
kirby said:
The football and wrestling team members who were brought on stage by Trump committed a major violation of NCAA rules by endorsing him.

I don't care that they were involved but I do care if CJ is ineligible next year!
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The only major violation is your ignorance.
 
Zamboni08 said:
I don't disagree. I didn't think this was even remotely close to a violation

But to those thinking that the first amendment would override a rule set by the NCAA (if there WERE a violation) is incorrect.
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You might be digging a bigger hole here. Last time I checked, the U.S. constitution would override any NCAA regulations that were deemed unconstitutional. I think a first year law student could win that case.
 
Hawk1960 said:
You might be digging a bigger hole here. Last time I checked, the U.S. constitution would override any NCAA regulations that were deemed unconstitutional. I think a first year law student could win that case.
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Not really. The constitution doesn't protect someone from losing their scholarship and/or getting kicked out of school for saying something stupid. It merely protects them from legal ramifications.

Disclaimer: I'm not actually referring to the athletes who showed up at the Trump rally.
 
AdamHawk said:
Not really. The constitution doesn't protect someone from losing their scholarship and/or getting kicked out of school for saying something stupid. It merely protects them from legal ramifications.

Disclaimer: I'm not actually referring to the athletes who showed up at the Trump rally.
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At least someone gets it...thank you.
 
Hawk1960 said:
Three thoughts on this ...

1) Just because someone is at a rally (or even on stage) does not mean they are "endorsing" the candidate. None of the athletes spoke to the crowd. They may be hearing what the candidate has to say to see if they are even interested in voting for him/her.

2) This would be a very slippery slope for the NCAA as every National Championship football and basketball team in recent memory has gone to the White House to meet the President which is nothing more than political pandering no matter if it's a Republican or Democratic President.

3) There is also this thing called the first amendment, which would override any nitpick rule from the NCAA.
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Guess we better tell Fran that the team can't go visit Obama after it wins the national championship this year. Bummer.
 
AdamHawk said:
Not really. The constitution doesn't protect someone from losing their scholarship and/or getting kicked out of school for saying something stupid. It merely protects them from legal ramifications.

Disclaimer: I'm not actually referring to the athletes who showed up at the Trump rally.
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Never said it did. Your second sentence supports my argument, if an organization (NCAA) has a provision that violates your first amendment rights which side do you think is going to win in court? That's the point. Everyone citizen has the right to assemble.
 
Wish I had added a question mark to my original post. I didn't mean to make it seem like I was an expert on NCAA rules. I started to see some fox radio affiliates reporting that.
 
Hawk1960 said:
Never said it did. Your second sentence supports my argument, if an organization (NCAA) has a provision that violates your first amendment rights which side do you think is going to win in court? That's the point. Everyone citizen has the right to assemble.
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Precisely where you are wrong.

Hypothetical'ish:

The NCAA says as a member/student athlete you cannot participate in a television ad endorsing a candidate. If a player does, they are subject to whatever ramifications the NCAA has in place or decides. No, constitutionally you can't be arrested or fined by the government for taking part (1st amendment), but as a member of the NCAA, you play be their rules.

Just as if you decided to walk around your job dropping racial or sexual slurs and get canned. You aren't going to be thrown in jail, but when/if you're fired you can't take your former employer to court because of a violation of your 1st amendment rights.

The NCAA can set any rules it wants - don't like the rules? Don't play the game.
 
You guys are looking at this wrong, its not a free speech issue. Donald Trump is a very wealthy guy who has donated lots of money to the University of Iowa and the Iowa Hawkeye Football Program over the years. His time is also very valuable, and time spent with Trump is priceless and the wisdom and knowledge he shares with his followers is incredibly valuable. These kinds of gifts like opportunities to meet such incredible and huge successful people and winners in life like Trump may represent violations of the NCAA's definition of amateur scholar athlete. This is the same organization that said putting too much cream cheese on a bagel in the training table is a violation, so imagine what meeting the biggest hugest celebrity with so much class it hurts his enemies just to think about it would be.
 
Zamboni08 said:
Precisely where you are wrong.

Hypothetical'ish:

The NCAA says as a member/student athlete you cannot participate in a television ad endorsing a candidate. If a player does, they are subject to whatever ramifications the NCAA has in place or decides. No, constitutionally you can't be arrested or fined by the government for taking part (1st amendment), but as a member of the NCAA, you play be their rules.

Just as if you decided to walk around your job dropping racial or sexual slurs and get canned. You aren't going to be thrown in jail, but when/if you're fired you can't take your former employer to court because of a violation of your 1st amendment rights.

The NCAA can set any rules it wants - don't like the rules? Don't play the game.
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But we are not talking hypotheticals here. It's very simple, a group of athletes attended a rally, they did not violate any NCAA rule and are constitutionally protected to attend. The UI statement this afternoon is spot on.
 
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Hawk1960 said:
But we are not talking hypotheticals here. It's very simple, a group of athletes attended a rally, they did not violate any NCAA rule and are constitutionally protected to attend. The UI statement this afternoon is spot on.
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I've made it quite clear I don't think there was a violation. But people started stating things about the first amendment that is incorrect, including yourself with this:

"3) There is also this thing called the first amendment, which would override any nitpick rule from the NCAA."

Which is incorrect. And I provided an example as to why.

Anyway...
 
thetrza said:
You guys are looking at this wrong, its not a free speech issue. Donald Trump is a very wealthy guy who has donated lots of money to the University of Iowa and the Iowa Hawkeye Football Program over the years. His time is also very valuable, and time spent with Trump is priceless and the wisdom and knowledge he shares with his followers is incredibly valuable. These kinds of gifts like opportunities to meet such incredible and huge successful people and winners in life like Trump may represent violations of the NCAA's definition of amateur scholar athlete. This is the same organization that said putting too much cream cheese on a bagel in the training table is a violation, so imagine what meeting the biggest hugest celebrity with so much class it hurts his enemies just to think about it would be.
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thetrza is tremendously better correct right becuase. This Constitutional argument is being looked at stupid and incompetent. Just understand becuase of this it will be better. Tremendous. Some would say Great. Why we don't have our fastest running back starting becuase he isn't tremendously fumbling any more, but better, is not only besides the point, it is tremendously better on top of the point. Although if we could get him to the outside, I think we're better. maybe not tremendous, but better. Cuz we're Iowa, and we have caucuses. I'm gunna caucus. For the tremendous one, who will make Iowa football great, and has been trying for a long, long time already.

I hope this clears everything up, cuz theirty is correct.
 
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