Lose Kirk this program is headed for the dumpster

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Or the University sue's the ever loving shit out of people for defamation of character.
Because it's pretty easy to prove that any claims found to be false hurt the university in multiple ways.
Wouldn't that be a bitch to be in the NFL or having a good job because you have a degree and yet not have any money because you have to make payments to the University for the rest of your life.
 
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4thngoal said:
Or the University sue's the ever loving shit out of people for defamation of character.
Because it's pretty easy to prove that any claims found to be false hurt the university in multiple ways.
Wouldn't that be a bitch to be in the NFL or having a good job because you have a degree and yet not have any money because you have to make payments to the University for the rest of your life.
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Umm, doubt that happens. A lawsuit opens the door to discovery, and who knows what skeletons a good defense attorney might find in the Iowa Football closet.
 
4thngoal said:
Or the University sue's the ever loving shit out of people for defamation of character.
Because it's pretty easy to prove that any claims found to be false hurt the university in multiple ways.
Wouldn't that be a bitch to be in the NFL or having a good job because you have a degree and yet not have any money because you have to make payments to the University for the rest of your life.
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You think Iowa looks bad now, wait till videotapes of those depositions get posted online.

Try again, Matlock.
 
Yeah well that's the difference between me and you, I don't think Iowa looks bad now.
I'm not dumb enough to make an opinion/judgement based on what others say.
If I did that I would hate everyone, including myself, now wouldn't I?
Besides if I started making judgements based like that, wouldn't that be skating on the edge of something an awful like racism?
 
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If anything else the University of Iowa stands for one thing and that is equality, From the first woman student at a university in 1855, to the first woman law graduate in 1873 to the first african american law graduate in in 1879 to the first black intercollegiate college athlete in 1895. By comparison the SEC first allowed a black athlete on the field in 1967...University of Texas 1970..(these are not typos).......It is also imperative to me as a proud graduate to maintain that standard and equality......... At this point Mr Doyle needs to step aside for us to move on and address any underlying issues that are not consistent with our history of acceptance. I am all for hard ass strength coaches and what they are trying to accomplish in a very competitive world. However hard work is not defined by someone cracking a whip and denigrating you to get better, It is a position that should allow an athlete a blueprint for success. Coaches do not make great players......they make good players.......Great players are self starters and hard workers on their own that is what makes them great, they put in the work for the success they obtain.
 
okeefe4prez said:
They allegedly can't treat the new meat too poorly now. According to my old man, the mean IQ in the US has fallen 3-5 points per generation with a handful of outliers on the top end of the bell curve bailing us out on technological innovations, but the lower average IQ makes it impossible for younger people to understand the process. Luckily, the wars of the future will be fought with robots.
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That's not true. IQ tests are modified regularly so the average stays at 100. People taking older tests generally score substantially higher than the generation that took them.

"When intelligence quotient (IQ) tests are initially standardized using a sample of test-takers, by convention the average of the test results is set to 100 and their standard deviation is set to 15 or 16 IQ points. When IQ tests are revised, they are again standardized using a new sample of test-takers, usually born more recently than the first. Again, the average result is set to 100. However, when the new test subjects take the older tests, in almost every case their average scores are significantly above 100."

There is some truth in certain areas since the 1990's though.

"Research suggests that there is an ongoing reversed Flynn effect, i.e. a decline in IQ scores, in Norway, Denmark, Australia, Britain, the Netherlands, Sweden, Finland, France and German-speaking countries,[4] a development which appears to have started in the 1990s."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
 
Ree4 said:
That's not true. IQ tests are modified regularly so the average stays at 100. People taking older tests generally score substantially higher than the generation that took them.

"When intelligence quotient (IQ) tests are initially standardized using a sample of test-takers, by convention the average of the test results is set to 100 and their standard deviation is set to 15 or 16 IQ points. When IQ tests are revised, they are again standardized using a new sample of test-takers, usually born more recently than the first. Again, the average result is set to 100. However, when the new test subjects take the older tests, in almost every case their average scores are significantly above 100."

There is some truth in certain areas since the 1990's though.

"Research suggests that there is an ongoing reversed Flynn effect, i.e. a decline in IQ scores, in Norway, Denmark, Australia, Britain, the Netherlands, Sweden, Finland, France and German-speaking countries,[4] a development which appears to have started in the 1990s."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
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I was simply reporting what my old man said. His observations are based off where he lives, the Midwest, which is dominated by persons of origins in places that had a reversed Flynn effect. It's not hard to believe that states like Nebraska (where he lives) or Minnesota are dropping in IQ. Just look at their fans at a football game sometime. We're not talking about Rhodes scholars here, bud.
 
Ree4 said:
That's not true. IQ tests are modified regularly so the average stays at 100. People taking older tests generally score substantially higher than the generation that took them.

"When intelligence quotient (IQ) tests are initially standardized using a sample of test-takers, by convention the average of the test results is set to 100 and their standard deviation is set to 15 or 16 IQ points. When IQ tests are revised, they are again standardized using a new sample of test-takers, usually born more recently than the first. Again, the average result is set to 100. However, when the new test subjects take the older tests, in almost every case their average scores are significantly above 100."

There is some truth in certain areas since the 1990's though.

"Research suggests that there is an ongoing reversed Flynn effect, i.e. a decline in IQ scores, in Norway, Denmark, Australia, Britain, the Netherlands, Sweden, Finland, France and German-speaking countries,[4] a development which appears to have started in the 1990s."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
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okeefe4prez said:
I was simply reporting what my old man said. His observations are based off where he lives, the Midwest, which is dominated by persons of origins in places that had a reversed Flynn effect. It's not hard to believe that states like Nebraska (where he lives) or Minnesota are dropping in IQ. Just look at their fans at a football game sometime. We're not talking about Rhodes scholars here, bud.
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Regardless of the trend, I've been trying to crack 75 since the late 80s and I get nowhere. It's definitely rigged.
 
HawkeyeDenis said:
Kirk gone, Brian gone, Doyle gone. Dismantle a program that has taken years to build up because some things weren't right? Not to make light of this, because it is serious, but it's not Pedo gate. Institutions are not perfect. They will never meet all the wants or needs of all involved. Trust Kirk to fix any problems that may have occurred.

To those that think that this is a mediocre program only satisfied with eight win seasons. Wait. Dismantle this program and watch as Iowa becomes the door mat for Iowa State.
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if a person is to believe every accounts/stories from former/current black players (except for DJK because, duh...) are true, then it can only follow that the very culture that kirk fostered and grew, enabled these things to happen. however, we should then trust kirk to fix the problem he states he was unaware of, but that he allowed to propagate for years?

this is a classic case of rationalizing to secure the outcome you want and not an outcome that fits the truth or reality.
 
ArvadaHawk said:
if a person is to believe every accounts/stories from former/current black players (except for DJK because, duh...) are true, then it can only follow that the very culture that kirk fostered and grew, enabled these things to happen. however, we should then trust kirk to fix the problem he states he was unaware of, but that he allowed to propagate for years?

this is a classic case of rationalizing to secure the outcome you want and not an outcome that fits the truth or reality.
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So basically we should fire most company CEO's then. We should definitely wipe out the military top brass. Then the police departments, schools administrations, lenders of all kinds, realtors....you see where I'm going here. This isn't just an Iowa problem...it's a societal problem.

People get all jacked up when they get to kick around someone that maybe they didn't like, who makes too much money, who gets family members jobs, who runs the program in a specific way...or whatever. It's amazing how people don't get any credit for what they have done right...it's all tear them down...focus on the negative...get clicks.

At the end of the day...do you think you have someone who cares about his players, and is capable of making changes. If you believe that...the rest is just bullsh$t. It's out there...let him correct it.
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
So basically we should fire most company CEO's then. We should definitely wipe out the military top brass. Then the police departments, schools administrations, lenders of all kinds, realtors....you see where I'm going here. This isn't just an Iowa problem...it's a societal problem.

People get all jacked up when they get to kick around someone that maybe they didn't like, who makes too much money, who gets family members jobs, who runs the program in a specific way...or whatever. It's amazing how people don't get any credit for what they have done right...it's all tear them down...focus on the negative...get clicks.

At the end of the day...do you think you have someone who cares about his players, and is capable of making changes. If you believe that...the rest is just bullsh$t. It's out there...let him correct it.
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actually, you're right, you just approached it from the wrong angle. we are at a place where we can clean up societal injustices and give everyone the equal opportunity to live their life the way they want to. no government or entity gives a human being their sovereignty, it's the other way around. but you can't just say corporations, for example, are evil because they make so much money and i don't have as much as them and i want more of their money. if corporations are infringing on god given inalienable rights of all free citizen men and women of America, then they damn sure need to be brought to judgement and the ones in charge are responsible. would you not agree? same with all aspects of society that you mention. those in charge are responsible. but, as this board and others are showing, people don't "really" want to step outside of their comfort zone and "really" fix something when platitudes and throwing someone out to the wolves can make something uncomfortable go away.
 
ArvadaHawk said:
actually, you're right, you just approached it from the wrong angle. we are at a place where we can clean up societal injustices and give everyone the equal opportunity to live their life the way they want to. no government or entity gives a human being their sovereignty, it's the other way around. but you can't just say corporations, for example, are evil because they make so much money and i don't have as much as them and i want more of their money. if corporations are infringing on god given inalienable rights of all free citizen men and women of America, then they damn sure need to be brought to judgement and the ones in charge are responsible. would you not agree? same with all aspects of society that you mention. those in charge are responsible. but, as this board and others are showing, people don't "really" want to step outside of their comfort zone and "really" fix something when platitudes and throwing someone out to the wolves can make something uncomfortable go away.
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The point I was making is that you have to give the people who were adhering to antiquated norms, the chance to change them once they understand the gravity of the situation. Do you feel they have the capacity for change? If you do, and if you take into account the way the Iowa Football program is run...no violations, kids not getting in trouble...etc. Then let them make the changes. It's clear KF had his head in the sand and missed the signs...and he trusted the relationships his players had with the coaches. He deserves to be called out for those issues, and he has to be sincere that he's listening and taking action to change it. He is.

It's out there now...let them change it.

Listen...I completely agree that changes need to be made...and it starts at the top. The problem I have is that so far, none of these players have made mistakes. Not one. Hell, DJK has KF planting cocaine in his apartment and calling the cops on him. KF destroyed his reputation. No DJK, you destroyed your reputation by getting caught with drugs at the end of your senior season. Listen, if you have top 5 talent at your position, the NFL will take a chance on you if you get busted. DJK wasn't in that discussion.

College football dreams don't all end in an NFL contract. KF isn't to blame for every grievance the DJKs and Wadley's have. They both got shots with NFL teams and were in preseason games...are they saying those teams were just wasting their time to ridicule them, because KF already had torn them down with NFL personnel people. Gimme a break.
 
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I love Kirk and his entire staff.
All of this is overblown. Some wrong things said, yes, but for fucks sake people... you all sound like the whiny generation of kids.
Sick of your ignorance.
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
The point I was making is that you have to give the people who were adhering to antiquated norms, the chance to change them once they understand the gravity of the situation. Do you feel they have the capacity for change? If you do, and if you take into account the way the Iowa Football program is run...no violations, kids not getting in trouble...etc. Then let them make the changes. It's clear KF had his head in the sand and missed the signs...and he trusted the relationships his players had with the coaches. He deserves to be called out for those issues, and he has to be sincere that he's listening and taking action to change it. He is.

It's out there now...let them change it.

Listen...I completely agree that changes need to be made...and it starts at the top. The problem I have is that so far, none of these players have made mistakes. Not one. Hell, DJK has KF planting cocaine in his apartment and calling the cops on him. KF destroyed his reputation. No DJK, you destroyed your reputation by getting caught with drugs at the end of your senior season. Listen, if you have top 5 talent at your position, the NFL will take a chance on you if you get busted. DJK wasn't in that discussion.

College football dreams don't all end in an NFL contract. KF isn't to blame for every grievance the DJKs and Wadley's have. They both got shots with NFL teams and were in preseason games...are they saying those teams were just wasting their time to ridicule them, because KF already had torn them down with NFL personnel people. Gimme a break.
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real change can only be made when real change becomes the goal. letting anyone in a place of authority claim "my head was in the sand" perpetuates problems. kirk is paid to know everything his coaches do, how they act, at least with regard to being in an official capacity. we've been made to believe all of these black players are telling the truth (except for DJK) and that means they also tried to use the player council to get things fixed and it didn't happen. to me, that's proof that kirks system didn't cut it and shows liklihood that kirk knew. so...the bottom line is what is the truth? if the truth lays with what the players stated, kirk has to go.
 
cohawkeye said:
If anything else the University of Iowa stands for one thing and that is equality, From the first woman student at a university in 1855, to the first woman law graduate in 1873 to the first african american law graduate in in 1879 to the first black intercollegiate college athlete in 1895. By comparison the SEC first allowed a black athlete on the field in 1967...University of Texas 1970..(these are not typos).......It is also imperative to me as a proud graduate to maintain that standard and equality......... At this point Mr Doyle needs to step aside for us to move on and address any underlying issues that are not consistent with our history of acceptance. I am all for hard ass strength coaches and what they are trying to accomplish in a very competitive world. However hard work is not defined by someone cracking a whip and denigrating you to get better, It is a position that should allow an athlete a blueprint for success. Coaches do not make great players......they make good players.......Great players are self starters and hard workers on their own that is what makes them great, they put in the work for the success they obtain.
Click to expand...

You are way too smart for me and the probably most of the rest of the posters on HN.
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
So basically we should fire most company CEO's then. We should definitely wipe out the military top brass. Then the police departments, schools administrations, lenders of all kinds, realtors....you see where I'm going here. This isn't just an Iowa problem...it's a societal problem.

People get all jacked up when they get to kick around someone that maybe they didn't like, who makes too much money, who gets family members jobs, who runs the program in a specific way...or whatever. It's amazing how people don't get any credit for what they have done right...it's all tear them down...focus on the negative...get clicks.

At the end of the day...do you think you have someone who cares about his players, and is capable of making changes. If you believe that...the rest is just bullsh$t. It's out there...let him correct it.
Click to expand...

Thank you. In my area the ability to convince people to apply for school superintendencies declined to the point that there was little left in the qualified bottle. Yup. Just read any media, especially social, and the call to fire almost anyone in a position of authority/leadership is just part of the fun. One of my favorite responses to some in the past has been, Guess what. I have never heard anyone say, 'Gee. I make way too much money." Even before this fiasco, one of the most repeated cries on HN was "Fire them all! The coach, the assistants, the AD, the U. of I. president. And, the Board of Regents are left wing crazies." Guess history does repeat itself.
 
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