lets be honest

hawkfan340 said:
What are you even trying to argue? We shot better than Wisconsin. Shooting had little to do with the outcome today, yet you blame our shooting.
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I'm not just talking about today (my original post never said anything just about today) but overall -

We shot great the first half and that kept us in the game but we shot (pretty sure it was around 33%?) in the 2nd half and that's when we fell way behind.

I wasn't focused on just this game... and It wasn't the ONLY reason why we lost today.

However I would say our inability to shoot didn't help us much this game either...

we scored 27 pts in the 2nd half... if we had threats/shooters we could have came back.
 
Bigtenchamp said:
Not sure how you can separate those two thoughts...unless you mean "assume" one team is better because of race... that's prejudice.
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It's pretty easy to separate them. Being black is correlated with skills important to winning basketball. But when evaluating a player, you look for the actual skills that cause winning, not irrelevant cofactors such as race.

To simply look for the obvious but irrelevant factors such as race is, at best, lazy and at worse blatantly racist.


Bigtenchamp said:
No one is being prejudice either - every b-ball player has the ability to prove their skills.

Wisconsin is not overly athletic... but they do many other things well - including shoot.


The most athletic teams aren't always better (but it sure does help).
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It is prejudice to imply that our team isn't athletic enough because we have too many white players, which is what you did in your OP.
 
Iowa just needs to recruit way better talent regardless of race to play basketball. However let's be honest and less politically correct....A lot of that talent is found in the African American community, and Fran McCaffery needs to make connections and make in roads into black AAU teams/coaches and primarily black high schools. Players coming in every year like gessell, Woodbury, oglesby and uthoff just aren't going to produce elite teams.
 
hawkfan340 said:
It's pretty easy to separate them. Being black is correlated with skills important to winning basketball. But when evaluating a player, you look for the actual skills that cause winning, not irrelevant cofactors such as race.

To simply look for the obvious but irrelevant factors such as race is, at best, lazy and at worse blatantly racist.




It is prejudice to imply that our team isn't athletic enough because we have too many white players, which is what you did in your OP.
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No I didn't at all.... I watched these guys play for 2 years. I have enough evidence to make conclusions on their shooting ability ect ect.

I would say we have decent jumpers at some positions... its lateral quickness and speed we lack.

I'm not making rash generalizations and assumptions. We can't stop penetration because we don't have the speed/quickness.

Prejudice is judging something before you know...

If I saw a bunch of white guys walk out without playing and said "ahh these guys suck"

Or I didn't pick you because your white to play on my team

Without seeing you/them play - that's prejudice (as in "pre-judge")
 
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Bigtenchamp said:
It's really simple - good basketball players don't have to be athletic... but they need to be able to do other things.
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Take Iowa State. They are athletic, quick and can shoot the 3-ball. I honestly think that the Cyclones are more than capable of taking a team like Wisconsin down. Athleticism, speed, quickness, spreading the floor and capable of scoring in avalanches with the 3-pointer. I'm not saying Iowa State will win the NCAAA tournament, but Wisconsin would be very vulnerable to a team like Iowa State despite their shooting and discipline.
By the way, I am not an Iowa State fan - I am a 1972 Iowa graduate. But with the way Fred has things going over there, Iowa had best be prepared for annual ***-kickings from them.
 
Tiptontiger said:
Take Iowa State. They are athletic, quick and can shoot the 3-ball. I honestly think that the Cyclones are more than capable of taking a team like Wisconsin down. Athleticism, speed, quickness, spreading the floor and capable of scoring in avalanches with the 3-pointer. I'm not saying Iowa State will win the NCAAA tournament, but Wisconsin would be very vulnerable to a team like Iowa State despite their shooting and discipline.
By the way, I am not an Iowa State fan - I am a 1972 Iowa graduate. But with the way Fred has things going over there, Iowa had best be prepared for annual ***-kickings from them.
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ISU is a bit more athletic than us (though I don't see them as a hugely athletic team) but they have 5 players that can shoot 3 ptrs on the court a tall time (usually)

They are just waaaaay more dangerous.
 
IMO, we will need at least 7 more wins to make the NCAAs. Will Iowa be able to get 7 wins out of the final 10 games?
 
Hahahahahahhahah Hey I'm one of the dumbest plae warrior you ever met and I'm still here. I'm just laffy all day . Thanks OP ... You made my day ! Oh Do you have one of those pale hamburger joint in IC? I'll come by and order me one.
 
atomicblue224 said:
Hahahahahahhahah Hey I'm one of the dumbest plae warrior you ever met and I'm still here. I'm just laffy all day . Thanks OP ... You made my day ! Oh Do you have one of those pale hamburger joint in IC? I'll come by and order me one.
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hey they are "warriors" trying their best... I'll give them that.


:)
 
The "pale warriors" comment was what I took issue with. I was probably overly harsh in my first post, but I think it and some of the follow-up comments were unnecessary at best.
 
hawkfan340 said:
The "pale warriors" comment was what I took issue with. I was probably overly harsh in my first post, but I think it and some of the follow-up comments were unnecessary at best.
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I'm not a fan of political correctness... especially when it gets in the way with actual dialogue and thought. I guess I thought pale warriors was pretty soft and gentle...

I'm also a person who has played coached and been around diverse people all my life... I played in a basketball league in Des Moines where I was the only white kid in the league.

People who get offended by the idea that somehow African Americans have some advantages when it comes to certain sports.... they baffle me really.
 
Honestly I dont think it is racist thing at all < I don't think you are . I grew up around people who are african american they're are some of my best friends .
I don't think BB has anything to do with the color of skins , I think it has something to do with attitude. For example you really love playing basketball than you can play whether if you're african american or pale warrier. Playing basketball has to come from your heart. It has nothing to do with talents. IT HAS TO Come FROM YOUR HEART>Wisconsic has more heart to play than Iowa. I can see the big differences here.
 
Iowa needs better players period. White, black, it doesn't matter. The guys we have struggle to create their own shots, and just look clumsy at times.
 
The OP is not far off with his comments. To be honest, the athletes in football and basketball are pretty light in color. I don't think that's the main issue though.

Here's my perception of Iowa athletics today. I will save wrestling for last.


1. Let's start by making this clear. The athletes at Iowa play hard and work hard. I don't think anybody can argue that.
2. The football and men's basketball teams are very limited athletically.
3. Mentally, these same teams are quite weak. They tend to get down on themselves quickly when things don't go their way.
4. Women's basketball is an anomoly at Iowa right now. They are tough mentally and never quit or get down. They keep fighting.
5. Although not a major sport, Women's volleyball is young, talented and will be very good sooner rather then later.
6. Other the football, wrestling and basketball, the other sports matter little to those outside of their respective programs.
7. Wrestling is a another story. Gable is still involved and does what he wants and if truth be known would probably tell Barta to suck it.

The wrestling team has an attitude that does not appear to be in sync with the PC community that is now prevalent in Iowa City. The team fortunately doesn't care what anybody else thinks. They do things their way and you see the results. #1 in the nation.

I guess what I'm saying is Iowa, for the most part, has athletes that are of average talent at best, are soft physically and mentally and until Mason and Barta are gone nothing will change. After they both are gone it will take a number of years to undo the soft and weak nature that the Iowa Athletics program has become. Many Iowa fans have become just as weak and accepting of the average product we see weekly.

Slam me if you want, but living outside of Iowa for several years has given me a perspective I didn't have while living there. The top universities athletically do things differently outside of Iowa. Winning programs do more for colleges then you can imagine.
 
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