LeBron is a stud
Lestikow article on-Rotation
- Thread starter Hawkfnntn
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LeBron is a stud
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Why is one of these guys nearly 5 PER points better defensively? I mean the guy that has an extra 1.6 Steals per game and .3 blocks per game has 4 less rebounds per game. Why is one soooooo much better defensively?
13 RPG, .4 Steals per game, .8 Blocks per game
Vs
9 RPG, 2 Steals per game, 1.1 blocks per game.
Doesn't give up as many buckets. Defense isn't all about steals and blocks
Knight78
Well-Known Member
Big O wasn't? If I'm picking a team of the best at their respective positions from the history of the game, Big O is probably the first or second guy I pick. LeBron may be on my team, but he's probably not a starter.
I disagree. LeBron is an all time great
Knight78
Well-Known Member
I didn't say he wasn't an all time great. I said he would be in my starting five. As far as making your team great immediately, that HAS to go to Larry Bird (and I'm a big Lakers fan). Any guy that comes in and improves his team record by 32 games with no other roster additions is the greatest. (They didn't get Parish or McHale until the following season) The other forward is a toss up between Elgin Baylor and Karl Malone.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Gotcha. So you think the player with the WAY better PER is the better player then?
Generally that's true
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Well you are telling me all you need is PER, so why are you even hedging your bet here. According to you the players that is 5 PER better is significantly better than the other player.
Hawkalum2002
Well-Known Member
Robertson won't have as high a PER as LeBron simply for the fact they didn't keep track of steals and blocks (or turnovers for that matter) during his era. Adding zeroes in those categories is going to make it hard to catch up to newer player putting up similar stats.
Do you think every player with a higher offensive rating is better than someone who has a lower offensive rating?
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure I have made myself clear that I don't think the defensive metric numbers are not reliable at all. I could rate defensive ability better than this metric by just watching them play 2 games.
So you really think that the Player with the higher PER is that much better than the other guy? That is crazy man, you should really LTG and look deeper than PER.
I said generally is true. Do you think a player with a much higher offensive rating is better?
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
When did I ever say that? I'm just saying that the defensive rating isn't very accurate. Everything I have seen or read about D rating is HIGHLY skeptical of it. It has no good way to assign calculations on what % of a made shot is due to defense vs the offensive players ability. It gives credit to the defender for a defensive rebound by a teammate. It has a team defensive component to it. It has no way at all to rate zone defenses, who gets credit for what there? It simply has too many holes and gaps to fill.
Also it isn't needed. I can watch a BB game and tell you who can play D and who can't. For instance Gabe Olaseni has a better career D rate than Woody. This is simply laughable. The rating doesn't give any points for good footwork, good position defense, help defense, directing traffic, and many other important defensive elements. Gabe simply wasn't CLOSE to the defender that Woody was, but since he grabbed some rebounds and blocked shots, the D ratings say Gabe was better. Do you actually believe that Gabe was close to the defender that Woody was?
StatelineHawk
Well-Known Member
Never play more that 8-9 guys period.
StatelineHawk
Well-Known Member
I agree there is no guarantee Iowa will be better. I definitely hope so. If the rotation and the number of guys playing does not get settled, we will not be better.
Can you not read? I asked you both times about offensive rating not defensive rating
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
No, not always. Like anything Orate is just one stat, I'd like to see several others to make comparisons.
It is you who is the one trick pony who claims PER tells all and knows all about a player.
So then why would you post offensive ratings of different PG's and say Bohannon was out performing them?
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Look back over it, I started by posting several stats.....you are the one who always breaks it down to PER, and since I don't like the PER as it relies too much on the defensive component, I moved to Orate, which you seemed to like as well. Orating at least tells a more accurate picture, but as you know you also need to know usage rate, and I like to look at a couple other things as well.
I personally think the best picture painted is by using traditional stats. List the PPG, APG, RPG (if a F/C) and eFG%. Those to me paint a pretty good picture and may MPG to see if one guy is playing like 15 Minutes more per game.
