Lebron James is a DB

In regards to Kevin Garnett, he has said publicly that he does have some regret spending some of his prime years on mediocore teams in Minnesota. I believe he actually said that to Lebron after their series this year actually.

It's hard for me to comment on his playoff performance this year cuz I didn't get to see much of it so I don't know if he quit on the Cavs. But he did have over 30 points, 19 rebounds, and 10+ assists in the game they were eliminated. Those aren't Vince Carter big game numbers so the whole he quit during the playoffs thing doesn't seem to stick.

What he did quit on though was the situation in Cleveland. But where was Cleveland headed going into this season? They were pry #3 behind Boston and Orlando in the East before Bosh signed with Miami and Wade re-upped. Had he not signed, I'm sure Miami would have made good use of their cap money and jumped ahead of Cleveland putting them at #4. After that you have the Bulls who already have a nice young nucleus and finally got a good low post offensive player when they signed Boozer. They too also have plenty of money to put other quality pieces in place. You could make the case that they would only be the 5th best team in their conference entering the season unless they made a big deal themselves. With the personnel they have, I'm not sure what move they could have made. And then even after that, they'd have to go through the Lakers.

So yes he bailed, but the vast majority would have. Some say Jordan or Kobe wouldn't have done the same thing. I disagree. Jordan wasn't put into that situation 7 years into his career. Jordan had a Dream Teamer on the other wing by the time he was 6th season. When things looked like they were falling apart for the Lakers in the mid naughts, Kobe said "trade me." Lebron played out his contract and in my mind always gave his best. He had to play awesome every night for this team to have a chance. He didn't have the luxury of going 6-24 in their biggest game of the season and having his team pull through for him.

Lebron has put himself in an interesting situation though. His decision to make this a televised circus has made him a bit of a heel of sorts for the first time in his career. I agree with what was said above about how legacy wise is they win he'll have to share with Wade and to a lesser extent Bosh. If they lose he pry takes most of the blame. I would like to think he recognizes this. If so, then doesn't that perhaps mean his is sacrificing?
 
The Cavs won 60+ games over the last 2 seasons, but all of the sudden they would've dropped to 4th in the East? Doubtful.

I find it interesting that many say the Cavs have themselves to blame for putting nothing around James. The Cavs made many trades to try to improve their team. Sure, they have some guys that are overpaid, but when you are trying to "go for it" you take what's available. Conversely, the Heat wasted 3 years of D-Wade's prime even tanking a season to land a lottery pick. Imagine what people would be writing if the Cavs had done what the Heat did for 3 seasons.

Basically, this thing was hatched up a long time ago. Nothing the Cavs could've done was going to change the plan. Riley had the inside scoop and planned accordingly.

Wade using his kids to stir up drama that he may go to Chicago is flat out sad. Stan Van Gundy said it best about Bosh when he called him Wade's lapdog. And LeBron doing what he did under the cover of buying some pong tables for the Boys and Girls Club of America is flat-out embarrassing. You watch -- they'll win some titles and 15-20 years down the line they will use the footage from Wade and Bosh documentaries combined with "The Decision" to try to sell how this all just "came together".

I'm just glad LeBron changed his number. Jordan vanquished his opposition, he didn't join 'em.
 
The whole he "took less money" bit is overplayed. In his contract, yes he appears to have taken less money. But when you factor in the no state sales tax in Florida, he actually makes more. I have been a LeBron "hater" for a couple of years now as I watch a lot of NBA games. He is the most ego-maniacal POS in all of sports. Who else gives themselves nicknames? (He started calling himself "the Chosen One" and "King James")

Also who else refers to themselves in the 3rd person over and over again? Joke. This guy is a coward who can't get it done being the man, so he goes and joins an all star team in Miami. As long as these Lakers stay together, and that looks to be the case with Fisher re-signing today, the Heat will not win a title. Hell, I am not even sure they will get out of the East. I think Boston, Orlando and Chicago will provide difficult challenges. I hope they fail miserably. The production they put on the other night was pathetic. If I did not know any better I would have guessed they won the championship already.
 
HAWKEYESTATE4ever said:
The whole he "took less money" bit is overplayed. In his contract, yes he appears to have taken less money. But when you factor in the no state sales tax in Florida, he actually makes more. I have been a LeBron "hater" for a couple of years now as I watch a lot of NBA games. He is the most ego-maniacal POS in all of sports. Who else gives themselves nicknames? (He started calling himself "the Chosen One" and "King James")

Also who else refers to themselves in the 3rd person over and over again? Joke. This guy is a coward who can't get it done being the man, so he goes and joins an all star team in Miami. As long as these Lakers stay together, and that looks to be the case with Fisher re-signing today, the Heat will not win a title. Hell, I am not even sure they will get out of the East. I think Boston, Orlando and Chicago will provide difficult challenges. I hope they fail miserably. The production they put on the other night was pathetic. If I did not know any better I would have guessed they won the championship already.
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I've long called him Pippen and I was hammered here in Cleveland early on for that. Interestingly, after he quit in the Boston series I started getting text messages like "you calling him Pippen is an insult to Pippen." Needless to say, my respect and appreciation for what Kobe has done on the court went way up after the Cle/Bos series. I don't see myself closely following the Association anymore after this; however, I'll be passively rooting for every other team outside of Miami.
 
clevelandhawk said:
I've long called him Pippen and I was hammered here in Cleveland early on for that. Interestingly, after he quit in the Boston series I started getting text messages like "you calling him Pippen is an insult to Pippen." Needless to say, my respect and appreciation for what Kobe has done on the court went way up after the Cle/Bos series. I don't see myself closely following the Association anymore after this; however, I'll be passively rooting for every other team outside of Miami.
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Well, you were correct, sir. He is more of a Pippen than he ever will be a Jordan.

I would also call him "Robin" or A-Rod to Wade's Batman or Jeter.

He will never be the man in Miami. That is Wade's team, and always will be.
 
Kobe had the best summer of any NBA player and he didnt have to do anything.....he should send LBJ a thank you card
 
"The Cavs won 60+ games over the last 2 seasons, but all of the sudden they would've dropped to 4th in the East? Doubtful."

You're right, the Cavs won 60+ regular season games the last two years. But judging how the playoffs finished the last two seasons, they are already 3rd in the East. And with what Miami and Chicago can do in free agency, you don't think one of those two teams would not leapfrog them?

I honestly don't think the Cavs failed to put "anything" around James. They have a nice collection of role players. The Cavs tried like hell with move after move but they were unable to find a true second banana. Maybe Jamison could have developed into that but it's doubtful seeing as he's at an age where most begin to decline. I'm convinced that the Larry Hughes signing is the move that haunted the Cavs. It was the one time since Lebron was on the team that they had signifcant cap room to sign a legit second star quality player. They signed Hughes who ended up being a bust and cap wise they never recovered. Instead they had to make trades for highly paid former stars (Wallace, O'Neal, Jamison) to try and find an answer.

There are not many good excuses about Miami tanking the past few seasons. Their lottery season is explainable when you think of how Shaq declined and Wade had health issues. What makes their situation different is that Miami can say "hey we are tanking, but we are a destination city and a big name will come." Cleveland isn't exactly a destination city.

Let me ask you this when you say Jordan would have vanquished his competition. With the way the Cavs are set up right now (they don't have a Pippen), would he have won a title in Cleveland against the competition?
 
I wouldn't consider the Lakers a sure thing over Miami. Artest is another year older. Sure Artest is still a great defender but he's at the stage of his career where he is about to lose a step. Kobe is a great defender too, but he too has a lot of mileage on him and isn't as quick as he used to be. That's not a good recipe for dealing with a Lebron/Wade combo. The Lakers would have a size advantage with the Gasol, Bynum, and Odom but are you ready to assume that Bynum will ever stay healthy. With Haslem back, they have a decent enough PF/C combo that they wouldn't get murdered by Gasol and Odom. Plus with the signing of Mike Miller, the Heat could have the luxury of playing Lebron at PG a little bit which would create some tough mismatches for the Lakers to deal with.
In the end the Lakers are the front runners til someone knocks them off and for good reason. But they aren't head and shoulders above the other contenders.

I've long called him Pippen and I was hammered here in Cleveland early on for that. Interestingly, after he quit in the Boston series I started getting text messages like "you calling him Pippen is an insult to Pippen." Needless to say, my respect and appreciation for what Kobe has done on the court went way up after the Cle/Bos series. I don't see myself closely following the Association anymore after this; however, I'll be passively rooting for every other team outside of Miami.
 
thefizz said:
With the way the Cavs are set up right now (they don't have a Pippen), would he have won a title in Cleveland against the competition?
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First, very informed post and good observation on Hughes. I, 100%, agree with you that move killed them and they have been haunted by it since. Indirectly, that's how they have some of the bad contracts they have as you correctly observed. That said, Gilbert was willing to spend money which is half the battle. They also had more flexibility this year than one might think. Delonte West is an expiring contract with only 500k guaranteed, but a $4MM cap number. They also had Parker and Moon contracts which would be attractive to teams looking for expiring contracts.

To answer your question, I believe ownership was committed to spending the money necessary to put a winning team around him. Could he have won? I am not sure he has the killer instinct to win as "the guy". Unfortunately, we'll never know if he did have that killer instinct since he decided to join up with a star player in his prime.
 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7xlzLOZH5c&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - LEBRON JAMES FLIPS OUT ON CLEVELAND FANS!!!![/ame]#!
 
I actually had a very heated argument about LeBron with a friend (who later dropped me as a Facebook friend, so take that FWIW). I said I felt vindicated for feeling that LBJ was/is NOT the "Next MJ". I don't disagree with his decision, but MJ or Kobe would not have left their team for a dream team. Maybe leave for a franchise that's they felt was committed to winning, but not to something like what Miami now has. LeBron just doesn't have "it", that intangible quality that Kobe and MJ have. We'll put it this way: LeBron will not be making a bitter acceptance speech when he's inducted into the HOF like Jordan did. Jordan will have that fire from getting cut in high school burning inside him until the day he dies. LeBron is not Jordan, he never was. I liken him more to Magic Johnson. But certainly not Jordan.
 
clevelandhawk said:
First, very informed post and good observation on Hughes. I, 100%, agree with you that move killed them and they have been haunted by it since. Indirectly, that's how they have some of the bad contracts they have as you correctly observed. That said, Gilbert was willing to spend money which is half the battle. They also had more flexibility this year than one might think. Delonte West is an expiring contract with only 500k guaranteed, but a $4MM cap number. They also had Parker and Moon contracts which would be attractive to teams looking for expiring contracts.

To answer your question, I believe ownership was committed to spending the money necessary to put a winning team around him. Could he have won? I am not sure he has the killer instinct to win as "the guy". Unfortunately, we'll never know if he did have that killer instinct since he decided to join up with a star player in his prime.
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I agree with you about the killer instinct. LeBron puts up crazy stats because he IS arguably the most talented player ever. But he doesn't have the killer instinct to make the plays in the clutch come June. If he's not wired like Jordan or Kobe, then he should have gotten away from Cleveland, where he was expected to be a Jordan. If that's not him, he can't help that. It's just no who he is. And I have some respect for him if he is willing to recognize who he is, and not try to play the game WE want him to play, rather going out and playing HIS game.
 
tm3308 said:
I actually had a very heated argument about LeBron with a friend (who later dropped me as a Facebook friend, so take that FWIW). I said I felt vindicated for feeling that LBJ was/is NOT the "Next MJ". I don't disagree with his decision, but MJ or Kobe would not have left their team for a dream team. Maybe leave for a franchise that's they felt was committed to winning, but not to something like what Miami now has. LeBron just doesn't have "it", that intangible quality that Kobe and MJ have. We'll put it this way: LeBron will not be making a bitter acceptance speech when he's inducted into the HOF like Jordan did. Jordan will have that fire from getting cut in high school burning inside him until the day he dies. LeBron is not Jordan, he never was. I liken him more to Magic Johnson. But certainly not Jordan.
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You just compared Queen to Magic? What the hell?!

Magic played center for his first NBA title. He certainly didn't quit.
 
imported_ankle23 said:
You just compared Queen to Magic? What the hell?!

Magic played center for his first NBA title. He certainly didn't quit.
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He played center for one game, and it was an amazing game, but he also had more talented teammates than LeBron ever had and didn't have to carry his team night in and night out like LeBron.
 
imported_ankle23 said:
You just compared Queen to Magic? What the hell?!

Magic played center for his first NBA title. He certainly didn't quit.
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I base the comparison off of a couple things: 1. LeBron is versatile enough to play 1-5 (obviously wouldn't be more than a stopgap center, but Magic only did it once), and 2. He wants to be a distributor rather than a scorer. Magic could score, no doubt. And so can LeBron. But that wasn't what they wanted to do. LeBron left Cleveland so that the burden of carrying the offense was off of his shoulders. Because he isn't wired to be that kind of player, even if he's got the skills to be.
 
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