Kirk's Legacy

I do think that Hayden, in his prime, was the much better offensive mind. On defense, Kirk had Norm Parker and Hayden had Bill Brashier. A wash on defense? Ferentz will be in the college hall of fame someday, joining Fry, Jones & Evy.
 
When it comes to this discussion I am biased toward Hayden he was the man during my childhood and teenage years. I just think it more difficult to change the culture of a program than it is to replenish the cupboards. Hayden not only change the culture at Iowa, but the B1G. Without Hayden there is no Kirk, not at Iowa at least.


KF is a Hof'er even though I do not think it is a slam dunk like many people think. For awhile there KF was looking a little ragged, but he looks healthy he looks like a guy who could easily live another 20 or 30 years. Reason why I bring this up is: How do you honor him after he is done coaching? Does he get a statute? Melrose become Kirk Ferentz Way? A wing in the hospital named after him? A building?
 
I would say KF's record against ISU is lackluster. KF's first two teams were decided underdogs and they played ISU pretty well even probably should have won at Ames in 2000. But KF's problem of being the favorite has led his conservative coaching to probably lose about 4 of these games since 2002. I really think the hawks and KF should have about a 11-6 record against ISU under KF. Some bad coaching decisions is Ames not taking the wind to start a few games, being ultra conservative and not ready to call major counterplays against ISU's all out blitz to first motion led to some goofy losses.
 
In Kf's defense in the 80's and 90's ISU was really bad they look like Patroits now compared to the way they used to look. Kf's 8-9 record against ISU is inexcusable that being said I think it is a bit much to ask him to be 17-0. I'm not sure what the magic record should be.......I don't know 12-5,13-4 something closer to that than 8-9.

Agreed, but I think it's fair to point out that ISU was generally pretty horrific in HF's days, so they were pretty easy pickings. No, ISU is still not very good, but I think in general, ISU has had some better teams during KF's era, so I'd expect a few more losses.

But yeah, 8-9 against ISU, that is the primary stain on KF's tenure. That, and too many losses as double digit favorites. Just do better in these types of games and we'd have had more 9-3 seasons instead of 7-5, and things look a whole lot different.

Still, looks like KF is about to notch his 5th finish in the Top 10 nationally, so still pretty darned impressive when you look at the overall body of work.

If KF can win this Rose Bowl, that'll only help. Hayden was never able to win a Rose Bowl, and KF already has won an Orange Bowl as well, which is essentially just about as good.

When it's all said and done, I think we'll look back on KF's era as being largely pretty successful, just a bit inconsistent.
 
Are you trying to say that KF is the better coach then? I mean if Hayden had all world assistants, and KF has garbage assistants, wouldn't that mean KF had to be one hellz of a coach to get results, and Hayden really didn't have to be a good coach because he had those All Stars running the team?

Just curious, you don't get to have it both ways....ya know?

Just an armchair QB here - but I have to give Hayden credit for surrounding himself with good coaches. IMO it's part of the job of being a head coach, because you can't do it all alone. I've gotta give Norm Parker a lot of credit for those earlier 2000's teams (as well as 2008/09) because of the defense. Without that, they don't have near the success. Yes, that means I have to give KF some credit as well for having Norm on his staff.

In other words, I give credit where it's due to the entire coaching staff as a whole, not JUST the top man.
 
Agreed, but I think it's fair to point out that ISU was generally pretty horrific in HF's days, so they were pretty easy pickings.

Iowa State was coming off of back to back bowl games when Hayden was hired. Their program was in better shape than IOWA's at that time.

I think Hayden gets at least some credit for the fact that they faded after he took over...it's not a coincidence. Hayden knew that you start, by dominating your own backyard. And he did that.
 
Are you trying to say that KF is the better coach then? I mean if Hayden had all world assistants, and KF has garbage assistants, wouldn't that mean KF had to be one hellz of a coach to get results, and Hayden really didn't have to be a good coach because he had those All Stars running the team?

Just curious, you don't get to have it both ways....ya know?

This thread has 'evolved' into a 'comparison' between KF and Fry. One comparison I can make is Hayden wore sunglasses and white pants during games and KF starts every sentence with a verb. Likes to play close to the vest.

Another comparison is Hayden had a coaching tree because he allowed coaches to actively participate in game time decisions. KF, until recently, had a bunch of yes men and therefore not so much of a coaching tree. Concluding KF knew more about college football than Hayden since KF made or participated in most of the decisions. On the flip side, Hayden realized his limitations and KF????? That Hayden's assistants knew more about college football and KF's???

Both coaches brought fame and success to Iowa football. Guess it depends on your ideology...how you vote...what you worship.
mmmmm. I hate stalkers. Yeah, I'm intimating KF knew more about college football than Hayden. I'm also intimating Hayden acknowledged his limitations more than KF acknowledged his.
 
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mmmmm. I hate stalkers. Yeah, I'm intimating KF knew more about college football than Hayden. I'm also intimating Hayden acknowledged his limitations more than KF acknowledged his.

I wouldn't have even posted that if I read your entire post. As it is the best I can do is reading about 1/2 a post of yours. I will confess I had to read the entire last post when I realized that I missed that 1/2 of your post the first time.
 
The ISU pathos will always be a mark in the "minus" column for Kirk...it's exhibit 1A of my point about his lows being as low as his highs were high.

I can see having those losses in the off years, but Kirk had trouble with those slow starts even during that first run of good years.

Hayden did have some trouble against Donnie Duncan's Iowa State team going 1-3, winning in 79, and losing in 80, 81, 82. Then there was the 16 game winning streak. Immediately after Duncan left, Iowa State wasn't quite terrible yet. Those were Hayden's best teams though. The bottom really fell out for Iowa State in 1990. They spent nearly a decade as one of the worst teams in division I football.
 
1. Jones
2. Evy
3. Fry
4. Ferentz
Nothing wrong with being No. 4 on this list. Nos. 1 and 2 both have National Championships while at Iowa to their name, just their Iowa careers were too short. No. 3 was no slouch, as we all know.
 
KFz will be a Hall of Famer due to his complete body of work...not just the W-L record. He's well-respected in all corners and has been a model for college football coaches.
 
So hypothetical question. Say Hawks win the rose and average 8 wins over next four seasons. If Kirk retires at that point do you think the majority of the fan base will forgive and forget Kirk bad seasons, and regard his legacy as close behind that of Hayden Fry? Fry never did get a rose bowl win.

Read over an article of Charlie Strong hiring new assistants in order to keep his job at Texas. And couldn't help but think, if Kirk was able to have the recruiting advantage Strong has, Kirk would have a national title within 5 years. It was really exciting to believe it was an actual possibility at Iowa this season. Next years team will have a chance to contend for Big ten title and playoffs again. While Ferentz teams usually under-perform with high expectations, maybe this "new version" of Kirk will finally exceed already high expectations.
Don’t ever bring up national title and ferentz in the same sentence again. It’s not dealing in reality
 
Hayden also beat Iowa state 16 times in a row, and my guess is Iowa state was just as bad in the Ferentz era as they have been during Hayden's tenure.

Kirk has had the benefit of Michigan being as bad as they have ever been, while Hayden had the benefit of teams like Wisconsin and Michigan State being worse than they are now
Michigan st also had some very good yrs under perles
 
I do think that Hayden, in his prime, was the much better offensive mind. On defense, Kirk had Norm Parker and Hayden had Bill Brashier. A wash on defense? Ferentz will be in the college hall of fame someday, joining Fry, Jones & Evy.
Haydens offenses were light years beyond anything ferentz has ever put together. Scheme, coaches, excitement, personnel and results. Not even close
 

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