Kirk Ferentz vs Hayden Fry

Biggest advantage Fry had over Ferentz was in regard to his coaching staff. There was a period during Fry's tenure that I thought we had some of the best ***'t coaches in the country. Fry had also had an advantage in regard to the quality of QB's who played for him.
(Primarily due to Coach Snyder being able to develop QB's and run an offense that fit their style)

It also helped having Bernie Wyatt bringing in stud players off the East Coast.

Hayden did like running a few trick plays. I believe it was in his first year that he ran a "Statue of Liberty" play with Phil Seuss at QB. Think that was also the year Dennis Mosley rushed for 1000 yds.
 
See this is what I mean - I think if you look at the numbers it's tough to argue one is better than the other yet I supposed to conclude from your "stats" that one is.

Basing anything off of total amount of wins is obviously skewed - they played less games back then and their were ties.

You can only go by winning percentage with I clearly posted.


I love how you put stats in quotes as if they are questionable. They are facts. What they mean to one person is not what they mean to someone else. The only thing you should conclude from what I said is that with numbers being so similar, Kirk is not the crap he is being made out to be.

You can't go off 7 wins per year...we play 1 or 2 more games per season today.

Additionally, look at the OOC scheduling...Iowa doesn't play any top tier programs at all anymore. KF should exceed what Fry did for winning percentage and overall wins.

Can't find a full list of past schedules yet, but we played teams like Oklahoma, Nebraska, UCLA and Miami in the OOC during some of Fry's years.


We played ONE less game than we do today. So expect one more win then if that makes you feel better. People on here still view 8 wins a year as crap, so whether Hayden went 7-5 or Kirk went 8-5 it still equals about the same percentage for a season.



You’re wrong on the OOC scheduling. They did play those teams in SOME of those years, but they also played a lot of crap.



Iowa Historical Scores


We have been trying to schedule better. We scheduled Pitt a couple of times. We tried to schedule Missouri, but they backed out on us because we were too good (Pinkel's words).
 
You can't go off 7 wins per year...we play 1 or 2 more games per season today.

Additionally, look at the OOC scheduling...Iowa doesn't play any top tier programs at all anymore. KF should exceed what Fry did for winning percentage and overall wins.

Can't find a full list of past schedules yet, but we played teams like Oklahoma, Nebraska, UCLA and Miami in the OOC during some of Fry's years.

Historical Iowa scores:
Iowa Historical Scores

Back in the 80s and into the 90s there were normally 3 really, really bad teams on Iowa's schedule.

You could count on scoring 50+ on NW and ISU. Plus IU and MN were consistently really bad.

ISU won 73 games during Fry's 20 years = 3.7/yr. They've won 69 in KF's 12 years. 5.3

Heck Wisc only won a total of 10 games over a 5 yr period in late 80s.

Northwestern won a total of 21 games the first 12 yrs Fry was in the league (<2 per year).

MN only had a winning record 4 times in Fry's tenor. Winning 6 games 3 times, 7 once.

Purdue ave < 4 wins over a 16 yr period in the 80s-90s.

During most of Fry's time there was Michigan, OSU and no one else to challenge for B10 Title. Now Wisc, PSU and Iowa all consistently contend and more recently MSU.

PSU wasn't in the league until the end of Fry's career. PSU has ave 8 wins/yr during KF's time.
 
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Hayden also on a regular basis beat the teams he was suppose to beat (and usually by a wide margin). Ferentz has had more top end success (other than having one of his teams ranked number 1 in the country unlike Fry who did in 85).

If we could somehow morph these coaches together......

The teams Fry was "supposed to beat" were, in a lot of cases, much worse than they are now. There is so much parity in college football, that it lends itself to closer games and more upsets.
 
Both coaches have impressive bodies of work at Iowa.

In my mind, what set Fry apart was his ability to build Iowa out of nothing and challenge Michigan and Ohio State's death grip on the conference.

Ferentz, in contrast, has been able to maintain an incredibly consistent program in a conference in which the 5th through 9th place teams are generally far superior than they were during Fry's tenure. Outside of Ohio State and perhaps Wisconsin, when you compile the records, Ferentz has had Iowa above the rest of the Big Ten during his run.
 
I was interested in analyzing these two coaches and see what I could compare and contrast - or notice any trends. I think sometimes people tend to think Ferentz is the more successful coach - especially fans under 30. It's interesting to look at the statistics. All these stats just include their time at Iowa.

Hayden Fry 1979-1998

Ovr: 143-89-6 (61.6 win%)
Big10: 98-61-5 (61.6 win%)

Bowl Victories: 6
Top 25 finishes: 10
Top 10 finishes: 1


Kirk Ferentz 1999-2011

Ovr: 95-64 (59.7 win%)
Big10: 56-46 (54.7 win%)

Bowl Victories: 6
Top 25 finishes: 5
Top 10 finishes: 4

In some areas Hayden has a better track record, but Ferentz (4 top 10 finishes) has his strong points as well

Also, If you look at his career - Hayden started to decline after year 12. I hope that this is not the same case with Ferentz - that somehow this is the shelf life for an Iowa coach.

Good stuff, thanks. Both with the same number of bowl wins but KF has done it it in 12 years compared to 19. KF more top 10 finishes, less top 25 finishes, but hopefully will be comparable to Hayden with 7 more years. Overall win % pretty close. I'd like to see these same numbers in 7 more years and also Haydens numbers compared to Kirks first 11-12 years..
 
And a question for HN, would we have been doing the right thing to throw Hayden out 12 years into his tenure if he had some bad years????
 
Both coaches have impressive bodies of work at Iowa.

In my mind, what set Fry apart was his ability to build Iowa out of nothing and challenge Michigan and Ohio State's death grip on the conference.

Ferentz, in contrast, has been able to maintain an incredibly consistent program in a conference in which the 5th through 9th place teams are generally far superior than they were during Fry's tenure. Outside of Ohio State and perhaps Wisconsin, when you compile the records, Ferentz has had Iowa above the rest of the Big Ten during his run.

That's why he holds the place in our hearts that he does. We had almost 20 years of futility until Hayden came along and he saw something in this school most would have laughed at. Kirk has taken a good program that was down and improved on what his mentor did.

I was thinking about the comment that kuhntz made on how Iowa scheduled teams like Oklahoma and Nebraska back in the late 70s and early 80s. Knowing that these schedules are made a few years in advance, did you ever stop to think we weren't scheduling them as much as they were scheduling us? Back then, we were considered like Indiana is now. We were the cupcake that everyone wanted to play.
 
With JHF
Iowa had a better program than Wisconsin, Northwestern, Mich State and Iowa State. Basically Iowa was considered among the top 3 programs with Hayden (and that was achieved after he inherited the worst program in the Big Ten)

With KF
Wisconsin has become a better program
MSU same
NW same
and if Iowa State hangs on to Campbell . . . could the unthinkable happen?!?!?!

Basically Iowa is middle of the pack in the west with Kirk :oops:
 
With JHF
Iowa had a better program than Wisconsin, Northwestern, Mich State and Iowa State. Basically Iowa was considered among the top 3 programs with Hayden (and that was achieved after he inherited the worst program in the Big Ten)

With KF
Wisconsin has become a better program
MSU same
NW same
and if Iowa State hangs on to Campbell . . . could the unthinkable happen?!?!?!

Basically Iowa is middle of the pack in the west with Kirk :oops:
Wisconsin is what we should be right now. Alvarez > Ferentz
 
it's funny to hear people compare how 'conservative' Ferentz is compared to Fry, and how we need to implement the 'exotics' and 'open up the offense' like we did under Fry.

How many times has Ferentz quick kicked on 3rd down?

How many times does Ferentz run a draw on 3rd and long?

Fry was a very, very conservative coach. He used the 'exotics' generally when the game was out of hand. Funny stuff.

The "opening the offense" is not a comparison of kirk to hayden, it's stating the obvious that kirk is way to flipping conservative; to the point you can see it has cost us wins. A lot of wins.
 
How about this stat.
HF cupboard last couple years before retirement: Bare
KF cupboard 19 yrs: outdated 70's, needs complete remodeling!
 
How about this stat.
HF cupboard last couple years before retirement: Bare
KF cupboard 19 yrs: outdated 70's, needs complete remodeling!

I got a better one for ya

Hayden winning bowl season two years before retirement

KF's last winning bowl season how many years ago???????

By the time goldfinger retires Iowa will be over a decade away from a bowl win

boom-2gjd45e-920x613.jpg
 
How about this stat.
HF cupboard last couple years before retirement: Bare
KF cupboard 19 yrs: outdated 70's, needs complete remodeling!

This gets old about HF and leaving nothing. From the Chicago Tribune:
(Lightfoot was on the 02 team as a starter. Eric Steinbach 9 NFL seasons and a starter on 02. Oliver had 57 receptions at Iowa and was on the 01 team and had 18 receptions that year. Johnson played 22 games his fr and senior year 02.

Massaguoi was dismissed from the team. The cupboard was not bare.


Maybe Iowa hired an inexperienced head coach who was 12-21 at his former head coaching gig?


It was quite a year for high school football talent in the Chicago area.

Too bad not much of it plans to stick around.

UCLA came all the way to New Lenox for its quarterback of the future, Lincoln-Way's Cory Paus.

Michigan added Addison Trail's Dan Rumishek and Bolingbrook's Todd Howard to a recruiting class being acknowledged among the top three in the nation.

pixel.gif

pixel.gif

Penn State landed the No. 1 prospect in Illinois, Waubonsie Valley tight end R.J. Luke.

But Iowa came away with the biggest cache of all in All-Staters Siaka Massaquoi of Evanston and Eric Steinbach of Providence, second-team All-Staters Chris Oliver of Homewood-Flossmoor and Andy Lightfoot of Maine West plus special mention All-Stater D.J. Johnson of Naperville Central and late-blooming John Omotola of H-F.


Recruits will begin signing letters of intent to colleges Wednesday, the first day of the football signing period.

"We did better than we expected," said Iowa assistant coach and ex-Wheaton North and ex-Detroit Lion quarterback Chuck Long. "We knew Chicago would have an excellent recruiting class, and (coach) Hayden Fry made it a high priority."

Fry's down-home approach and the "Hayden hug" won over the Hawkeyes' prime objective, Massaquoi.

"I chose Iowa over Illinois, Michigan, Notre Dame and Northwestern because, well, coach Fry was the only coach who hugged me," said Massaquoi, who rushed for 2,035 yards and 29 touchdowns last fall. "Everyone at Iowa took more of a personal approach. On my visit, the Iowa players were great. It wasn't like I was some little chump coming into their world.

"The coaching staff said to do what's best for me and didn't keep harping on Iowa. It's not how I played, but who I was that seemed to matter. That whole place, you go there and just start smiling. I didn't want to come home after my visit."

The 6-foot-7-inch, 275-pound Lightfoot said a conversation with Massaquoi at a leadership conference helped persuade him to commit to Iowa.

"You could just see it in his face how happy he was to be going to Iowa," Lightfoot said.

"The Iowa coaches told me I was the first part of their recruiting plan and after that, it just snowballed," Massaquoi said. "I'll try to hook up Iowa with all the good players."

Steinbach talked to other top recruits before making his oral commitment in early November.

"It seemed like everyone had Iowa in their top five choices," said the 6-7, 235-pound Steinbach, who led the state with 26 sacks and was also recruited by Notre Dame, Michigan, Georgia Tech and Boston College. "I liked the way they didn't bug you and let you make the decision."

Steinbach's teammate, Providence All-State receiver David Popp, didn't receive a single Division I offer but may wind up as a walk-on at Iowa or Illinois, although Southern Illinois is showing some interest.

"Iowa owned the state of Illinois this year," said Chris Pool of the Great Lakes Recruiting Review in Joliet. "I thought this was a very good recruiting class, and Notre Dame didn't get anyone from Chicago. I guess the mystique just isn't there anymore.

pixel.gif

"Ten years ago, if you had a chance to go to Notre Dame, there was no question. Now, I think Michigan has the edge."

While missing out on standouts such as Massaquoi, Steinbach and Luke, the Irish did recruit well nationally. The G & W Report out of Sanatoga, Pa., rates Notre Dame's incoming class third behind UCLA and Michigan. The Fighting Irish were also a finalist with Stanford for Sandburg's 6-5, 285-pound All-State tackle Jeff Roehl.

In Ron Turner's first full recruiting season, the Illinois coach is expected to sign Dunbar All-State running back Rausell Harvey, Schaumburg quarterback Kurt Kittner, Rich East QB Walter Young, running back Antoineo Harris of Bolingbrook and linemen Tony Pashos (6-7, 325) of Lockport, Dave Diehl (6-7, 285) of Brother Rice and Matt Carlton (6-6, 320) from the College of DuPage.

In all, Turner will hand out 23 scholarships in an effort to reverse last fall's 0-11 record.

"This is going to be a drastically different team, and we won't ever go 0-11 again," Turner said. "Our No. 1 concern was speed, and we'll sign four junior-college receivers, a juco cornerback and one other corner (Alonzo Wise of Rock Island). These aren't just guys who can fly--they're athletes who are playmakers.

"Our second biggest need was size and strength on both sides of the line, and we addressed that. In some ways, going 0-11 attracted top athletes who knew they'd become instant starters.

"Iowa got some top guys, but I feel good about our recruiting class. There are always players you'd like to get and don't (Massaquoi and Luke). But there's not much dropoff with the ones we got (Harris and Harvey), and tight end was a low priority."

There are indications Turner is so impressed with Kittner and Young that he might toss the incoming freshmen into the quarterback derby rather than redshirt them.
 
This gets old about HF and leaving nothing. From the Chicago Tribune:
(Lightfoot was on the 02 team as a starter. Eric Steinbach 9 NFL seasons and a starter on 02. Oliver had 57 receptions at Iowa and was on the 01 team and had 18 receptions that year. Johnson played 22 games his fr and senior year 02.

Massaguoi was dismissed from the team. The cupboard was not bare.


Maybe Iowa hired an inexperienced head coach who was 12-21 at his former head coaching gig?


It was quite a year for high school football talent in the Chicago area.

Too bad not much of it plans to stick around.

UCLA came all the way to New Lenox for its quarterback of the future, Lincoln-Way's Cory Paus.

Michigan added Addison Trail's Dan Rumishek and Bolingbrook's Todd Howard to a recruiting class being acknowledged among the top three in the nation.

pixel.gif

pixel.gif

Penn State landed the No. 1 prospect in Illinois, Waubonsie Valley tight end R.J. Luke.

But Iowa came away with the biggest cache of all in All-Staters Siaka Massaquoi of Evanston and Eric Steinbach of Providence, second-team All-Staters Chris Oliver of Homewood-Flossmoor and Andy Lightfoot of Maine West plus special mention All-Stater D.J. Johnson of Naperville Central and late-blooming John Omotola of H-F.


Recruits will begin signing letters of intent to colleges Wednesday, the first day of the football signing period.

"We did better than we expected," said Iowa assistant coach and ex-Wheaton North and ex-Detroit Lion quarterback Chuck Long. "We knew Chicago would have an excellent recruiting class, and (coach) Hayden Fry made it a high priority."

Fry's down-home approach and the "Hayden hug" won over the Hawkeyes' prime objective, Massaquoi.

"I chose Iowa over Illinois, Michigan, Notre Dame and Northwestern because, well, coach Fry was the only coach who hugged me," said Massaquoi, who rushed for 2,035 yards and 29 touchdowns last fall. "Everyone at Iowa took more of a personal approach. On my visit, the Iowa players were great. It wasn't like I was some little chump coming into their world.

"The coaching staff said to do what's best for me and didn't keep harping on Iowa. It's not how I played, but who I was that seemed to matter. That whole place, you go there and just start smiling. I didn't want to come home after my visit."

The 6-foot-7-inch, 275-pound Lightfoot said a conversation with Massaquoi at a leadership conference helped persuade him to commit to Iowa.

"You could just see it in his face how happy he was to be going to Iowa," Lightfoot said.

"The Iowa coaches told me I was the first part of their recruiting plan and after that, it just snowballed," Massaquoi said. "I'll try to hook up Iowa with all the good players."

Steinbach talked to other top recruits before making his oral commitment in early November.

"It seemed like everyone had Iowa in their top five choices," said the 6-7, 235-pound Steinbach, who led the state with 26 sacks and was also recruited by Notre Dame, Michigan, Georgia Tech and Boston College. "I liked the way they didn't bug you and let you make the decision."

Steinbach's teammate, Providence All-State receiver David Popp, didn't receive a single Division I offer but may wind up as a walk-on at Iowa or Illinois, although Southern Illinois is showing some interest.

"Iowa owned the state of Illinois this year," said Chris Pool of the Great Lakes Recruiting Review in Joliet. "I thought this was a very good recruiting class, and Notre Dame didn't get anyone from Chicago. I guess the mystique just isn't there anymore.

pixel.gif

"Ten years ago, if you had a chance to go to Notre Dame, there was no question. Now, I think Michigan has the edge."

While missing out on standouts such as Massaquoi, Steinbach and Luke, the Irish did recruit well nationally. The G & W Report out of Sanatoga, Pa., rates Notre Dame's incoming class third behind UCLA and Michigan. The Fighting Irish were also a finalist with Stanford for Sandburg's 6-5, 285-pound All-State tackle Jeff Roehl.

In Ron Turner's first full recruiting season, the Illinois coach is expected to sign Dunbar All-State running back Rausell Harvey, Schaumburg quarterback Kurt Kittner, Rich East QB Walter Young, running back Antoineo Harris of Bolingbrook and linemen Tony Pashos (6-7, 325) of Lockport, Dave Diehl (6-7, 285) of Brother Rice and Matt Carlton (6-6, 320) from the College of DuPage.

In all, Turner will hand out 23 scholarships in an effort to reverse last fall's 0-11 record.

"This is going to be a drastically different team, and we won't ever go 0-11 again," Turner said. "Our No. 1 concern was speed, and we'll sign four junior-college receivers, a juco cornerback and one other corner (Alonzo Wise of Rock Island). These aren't just guys who can fly--they're athletes who are playmakers.

"Our second biggest need was size and strength on both sides of the line, and we addressed that. In some ways, going 0-11 attracted top athletes who knew they'd become instant starters.

"Iowa got some top guys, but I feel good about our recruiting class. There are always players you'd like to get and don't (Massaquoi and Luke). But there's not much dropoff with the ones we got (Harris and Harvey), and tight end was a low priority."

There are indications Turner is so impressed with Kittner and Young that he might toss the incoming freshmen into the quarterback derby rather than redshirt them.
giphy.gif
 
This gets old about HF and leaving nothing. From the Chicago Tribune:
(Lightfoot was on the 02 team as a starter. Eric Steinbach 9 NFL seasons and a starter on 02. Oliver had 57 receptions at Iowa and was on the 01 team and had 18 receptions that year. Johnson played 22 games his fr and senior year 02.

Massaguoi was dismissed from the team. The cupboard was not bare.


Maybe Iowa hired an inexperienced head coach who was 12-21 at his former head coaching gig?


It was quite a year for high school football talent in the Chicago area.

Too bad not much of it plans to stick around.

UCLA came all the way to New Lenox for its quarterback of the future, Lincoln-Way's Cory Paus.

Michigan added Addison Trail's Dan Rumishek and Bolingbrook's Todd Howard to a recruiting class being acknowledged among the top three in the nation.

pixel.gif

pixel.gif

Penn State landed the No. 1 prospect in Illinois, Waubonsie Valley tight end R.J. Luke.

But Iowa came away with the biggest cache of all in All-Staters Siaka Massaquoi of Evanston and Eric Steinbach of Providence, second-team All-Staters Chris Oliver of Homewood-Flossmoor and Andy Lightfoot of Maine West plus special mention All-Stater D.J. Johnson of Naperville Central and late-blooming John Omotola of H-F.


Recruits will begin signing letters of intent to colleges Wednesday, the first day of the football signing period.

"We did better than we expected," said Iowa assistant coach and ex-Wheaton North and ex-Detroit Lion quarterback Chuck Long. "We knew Chicago would have an excellent recruiting class, and (coach) Hayden Fry made it a high priority."

Fry's down-home approach and the "Hayden hug" won over the Hawkeyes' prime objective, Massaquoi.

"I chose Iowa over Illinois, Michigan, Notre Dame and Northwestern because, well, coach Fry was the only coach who hugged me," said Massaquoi, who rushed for 2,035 yards and 29 touchdowns last fall. "Everyone at Iowa took more of a personal approach. On my visit, the Iowa players were great. It wasn't like I was some little chump coming into their world.

"The coaching staff said to do what's best for me and didn't keep harping on Iowa. It's not how I played, but who I was that seemed to matter. That whole place, you go there and just start smiling. I didn't want to come home after my visit."

The 6-foot-7-inch, 275-pound Lightfoot said a conversation with Massaquoi at a leadership conference helped persuade him to commit to Iowa.

"You could just see it in his face how happy he was to be going to Iowa," Lightfoot said.

"The Iowa coaches told me I was the first part of their recruiting plan and after that, it just snowballed," Massaquoi said. "I'll try to hook up Iowa with all the good players."

Steinbach talked to other top recruits before making his oral commitment in early November.

"It seemed like everyone had Iowa in their top five choices," said the 6-7, 235-pound Steinbach, who led the state with 26 sacks and was also recruited by Notre Dame, Michigan, Georgia Tech and Boston College. "I liked the way they didn't bug you and let you make the decision."

Steinbach's teammate, Providence All-State receiver David Popp, didn't receive a single Division I offer but may wind up as a walk-on at Iowa or Illinois, although Southern Illinois is showing some interest.

"Iowa owned the state of Illinois this year," said Chris Pool of the Great Lakes Recruiting Review in Joliet. "I thought this was a very good recruiting class, and Notre Dame didn't get anyone from Chicago. I guess the mystique just isn't there anymore.

pixel.gif

"Ten years ago, if you had a chance to go to Notre Dame, there was no question. Now, I think Michigan has the edge."

While missing out on standouts such as Massaquoi, Steinbach and Luke, the Irish did recruit well nationally. The G & W Report out of Sanatoga, Pa., rates Notre Dame's incoming class third behind UCLA and Michigan. The Fighting Irish were also a finalist with Stanford for Sandburg's 6-5, 285-pound All-State tackle Jeff Roehl.

In Ron Turner's first full recruiting season, the Illinois coach is expected to sign Dunbar All-State running back Rausell Harvey, Schaumburg quarterback Kurt Kittner, Rich East QB Walter Young, running back Antoineo Harris of Bolingbrook and linemen Tony Pashos (6-7, 325) of Lockport, Dave Diehl (6-7, 285) of Brother Rice and Matt Carlton (6-6, 320) from the College of DuPage.

In all, Turner will hand out 23 scholarships in an effort to reverse last fall's 0-11 record.

"This is going to be a drastically different team, and we won't ever go 0-11 again," Turner said. "Our No. 1 concern was speed, and we'll sign four junior-college receivers, a juco cornerback and one other corner (Alonzo Wise of Rock Island). These aren't just guys who can fly--they're athletes who are playmakers.

"Our second biggest need was size and strength on both sides of the line, and we addressed that. In some ways, going 0-11 attracted top athletes who knew they'd become instant starters.

"Iowa got some top guys, but I feel good about our recruiting class. There are always players you'd like to get and don't (Massaquoi and Luke). But there's not much dropoff with the ones we got (Harris and Harvey), and tight end was a low priority."

There are indications Turner is so impressed with Kittner and Young that he might toss the incoming freshmen into the quarterback derby rather than redshirt them.
Sorry, I had forgotten how good the 98 season was with all that talent. Regardless Hayden will always be king for me! He brought it to a national brand and Kirk has taken it on a roller coaster where people ask who's Iowa.
 
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Sorry, I had forgotten how good the 98 season was with all that talent.

Speaking of that . . .
Hayden has his worst season where he loses 8 games and he does the classy thing and turns the keys over to someone else.
Kirk loses 8 games in 2012. Does he do the classy thing and admit his time has come and gone? No way. He's gonna stay and milk Barta dry and he doesn't care one wit about the future. He could have 5 consecutive winless seasons and he ain't giving up the keys to his own personal Fort Knox for no one.
That's how classy he is.
 

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