The difference that I see is that Jordan was making shots with people playing defense. Lebron looks good in the regular season when no one on the other team can be bothered to step outside and put a hand in his face. But when they start to play real defense in the playoffs, he wilts.
Jordan Finals Stats
- Thread starter briankaldenberg
- Start date
And Jordan didn't get away with traveling about 3 times a game.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
The Bulls were the best defensive team in the league, he had no problem against them. It's not anything the Mavs are doing, he's getting matched up with Kidd one on one and not attacking. I don't know why he has been so unaggressive.
SheagleHawk
Well-Known Member
I think it's important to look at how much harder it was too score in Jordan's era. The defensive players back then were much better than players now. Plus obviously there are a lot more rule changes now that make playing defense a lot less physical. Lebron can get a foul pretty much any time he wants.
Pakistanzi
Banned
Field goal percentage alone is a poor argument for why LeBron is almost as good of a jump shooter as Jordan. Fortunately, it appears only HawkeyeMike believes that nonsense. Look at the majority of LeBron's shots. They are him driving to the lane and dunking/laying up/taking short shots. He rarely is burying 20 footers in people's faces like Jordan did. Jordan could get to the lane like the best, and certainly had plenty of dunks himself, but simply watching games of the two guys shows that Jordan was clearly the better jump shooter. It's not even close. Jordan's bread and butter was burying the fade-away 16-22 footer with a defender right on him. LeBron doesn't have that skillset, or at least not anywhere near the level that Jordan did. It's easy to shoot close to 50 percent when you just use your significantly greater physical presence to force your way right next to the basket. I'm not knocking LeBron. I would use my body that way too if I was his size, but HawkeyeMike wants us to believe that LeBron is burying jump shots at the same rate that MJ did, and that is plain laughable.
HawkinGoferLand
Well-Known Member
In crunch time, Jordan was a killer. Kobe was a killer. LJ has been disappearing. I still the Heat will win the title this year, but I've been pulling for the Mavs to keep the series til 7 games.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
How old are you, 18 maybe? People remember Jordan as a hybrid of his super athletic pre retirement days and his refined skill set post retirement. He wasn't a good jump shooter early in his career, he was worse than LeBron, he scored at the rim just as much as LeBron does. There weren't tons of athletic 6'7 wing defenders like there are now, the book on Jordan was to make him shoot jumpers. So I know you probably remember seeing Jordan hit 6 threes in the first half against Portland in the finals, but he also only made 27 out of 100 3's all season long. So yeah keep making up this lights out jump shooting pre-retirement version of Jordan.
Pakistanzi
Banned
I like that you know I'm correct so you try to deflect by questioning my age. Unfortunately for you, I haven't been 18 for quite some time. There's no denying that in his first 5 or 6 seasons he was a poor/mediocre jump shooter. But we're talking about comparable time periods. Jordan had won his first title with the Bulls by now (in LeBron years), and was a great shooter. Your only argument is that he wasn't a great 3 point shooter pre-retirement #1? Most jump shots aren't 3 pointers unless your name is Reggie Miller. In fact, it shows how good of a jump shooter MJ was if he was able to still shoot a high field goal % while only shooting 27% from 3 point range as you are claiming.
Your Heat/LeBron love is completely clouding your common sense/rationality. No one on here is saying LeBron is not a good player. In fact pretty much everyone agrees he is one of the best players, if not the best player, in the NBA today. But he's not comparable to Jordan at this point. Not even close. Claiming that he is makes you look foolish.
LJ's biggest issue right now is he wants to be like Kobe and Jordan. A big shot taker and maker. Right now he is far from both. His defensive has gone through the roof. That's the only part of his game on par with Kobe & Jordan in their prime. However he's only been a top notch defender for 3 seasons. Jordan is the best defensive guard off all time. Kobe is right behind him.
Shocking talented, but he has a long way to go before be is even on Kobe's level. He would need a miracle to get to Jordan's level at this point.
NBA guards have 9, 10 seasons at most in their athletic primes. Jordan took nearly two years off and came back with possibly the best single offensive move in NBA history with his turn around jumper.
Unless LJ develops offensive moves that don't include a step back jumper or duck the head and drive, he's not going to approach either Kobe or Jordan.
Shocking talented, but he has a long way to go before be is even on Kobe's level. He would need a miracle to get to Jordan's level at this point.
NBA guards have 9, 10 seasons at most in their athletic primes. Jordan took nearly two years off and came back with possibly the best single offensive move in NBA history with his turn around jumper.
Unless LJ develops offensive moves that don't include a step back jumper or duck the head and drive, he's not going to approach either Kobe or Jordan.
If you look at Jordan after 8 seasons, he had shot almost 2000 less three pointers attempted than Lebron has now, while shooting a lower percentage, but still had a higher overall FG percentage and more PPG. He had to be a pretty good mid range shooter to pull that off. He might not have been able to shoot the three ball well (and I don't think Lebron is a great three point shooter either), but I'll take his ability to score, and score when it counts, over Lebron.
LaBron has been seriously hurt by a lack of strong coaching. He had been allowed to develop a game is woefully short on fundamentals based on his physical abilities. This had shown in the finals over the last couple of years.
He could be a great small forward if he learned how to play off the ball. But he has been allowed to take the ball up court and basically play 5 on 1. Sure he makes some nice passes, but he doesn't run the offense or keep the ball moving. Basically, he passes like he is taking a shot one on one.
Basically, he is James Worthy being allowed to advance the ball up court.
He really is suffering from the same Jordan complex that plagues Russell Westbrook. Both guys should be destroying people with off the ball cuts, but instead they want to have the ball in their hands and make the one highlight reel play. Melo has the same syndrome.
Basically all these guys just didn't have enough coaching while they were developing and are too good to be coached now.
He could be a great small forward if he learned how to play off the ball. But he has been allowed to take the ball up court and basically play 5 on 1. Sure he makes some nice passes, but he doesn't run the offense or keep the ball moving. Basically, he passes like he is taking a shot one on one.
Basically, he is James Worthy being allowed to advance the ball up court.
He really is suffering from the same Jordan complex that plagues Russell Westbrook. Both guys should be destroying people with off the ball cuts, but instead they want to have the ball in their hands and make the one highlight reel play. Melo has the same syndrome.
Basically all these guys just didn't have enough coaching while they were developing and are too good to be coached now.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
Simple: He doesn't have the "it" factor that Jordan, or even Kobe, had/have. He just doesn't seem to have that uber-competitiveness that only comes in the 4th quarter of a playoff game. He'll close in the regular season. He'll even sometimes close in a playoff game. But the Finals? No. When he has viable options around him, he would rather defer than to assert. That just seems to be who he is. Pass the pressure off to Wade.
storminspank
Justin VanLaere
I said Mavs in 6 and I'm sticking to it. As good as Miami is at home, Dallas is really good on the road. They've already taken one.
storminspank
Justin VanLaere
Also, LeBron shouldn't be compared to Jordan. It's not fair to James and it's an insult to Mike.
Section136
Well-Known Member
The thing that sticks in my mind about Lebron and his "big shot" making abilities is one thing. Back in '08 in the conference finals against the Magic, he drilled a buzzer beating 3 to win the game (game 2 in the series I believe). When that shot went in do you know who looked to be the most surprised person in the arena? Lebron James.
The shot went in and the look on his face was one of bewilderment. Like he almost expected himself to miss and he was shocked that he had just hit a shot at the buzzer to win.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fD1MNjkPFs]YouTube - LeBron James - Game 2 buzzer beater vs. Magic (05/22/09) HQ‏[/ame]
The shot went in and the look on his face was one of bewilderment. Like he almost expected himself to miss and he was shocked that he had just hit a shot at the buzzer to win.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fD1MNjkPFs]YouTube - LeBron James - Game 2 buzzer beater vs. Magic (05/22/09) HQ‏[/ame]
busabus114
Well-Known Member
Wouldnt surprise me if it happened. I think Miami will show up and win but if Dallas closed it out I wouldnt be surprised. Dirk is that good
busabus114
Well-Known Member
I would say excitement more than anything - it was the biggest shot of his life
Man, I forgot how ridiculous that shot was.
