Jon's "Minutes Problem" Podcast

[Hawk1960]

If we do have 10 deep this year, and the talent level from our 4th - 10th guy is just about equal, here is some out of the box thinking ...

During the 1st half of the game, use the "platoon" system. What I mean by that is you play 5 guys (let's call them the Team 1A) for 4-5 minutes and then sub the entire group for the second group (Team 1B) and let them play 4-5 minutes. Rinse and repeat for the remainder of the first half. Try to keep the two platoons equally balanced with scorers, defenders, ball handlers, etc.

During the 2nd half of the game you play your top 7-8 that performed well in the first half. That could be determined by who has the hot hand, who is defending, match ups, foul situations, etc..

I used to coach an AAU junior high team and we had a situation where we had 10 guys with just about equal talent and we used this very effectively at summer tournaments. We ran a half court press and extended our defense most of the first half because we always had fresh bodies. It really motivated the kids to play hard and they understood the methodology going in.

 

[InGoodCo]

ok, I can concede then that if a player plays every game, he's in the regular rotation. But typically the bottom 4 or 5 guys are roll players who play spot minutes for breathers. IMO you can't enough of those guys and the better quality they are the better.

Izzo every season plays an insane amount of players and it's helped them a lot in this league.

 

[Hawk5656]

ok, I can concede then that if a player plays every game, he's in the regular rotation. But typically the bottom 4 or 5 guys are roll players who play spot minutes for breathers. IMO you can't enough of those guys and the better quality they are the better.

Izzo every season plays an insane amount of players and it's helped them a lot in this league.

Izzo also has a roster loaded with really good players. He doesn't have players like Dom, Williams, Dailey and others.

 

[CyberJJJ]

If we do have 10 deep this year, and the talent level from our 4th - 10th guy is just about equal, here is some out of the box thinking ...

During the 1st half of the game, use the "platoon" system. What I mean by that is you play 5 guys (let's call them the Team 1A) for 4-5 minutes and then sub the entire group for the second group (Team 1B) and let them play 4-5 minutes. Rinse and repeat for the remainder of the first half. Try to keep the two platoons equally balanced with scorers, defenders, ball handlers, etc.

During the 2nd half of the game you play your top 7-8 that performed well in the first half. That could be determined by who has the hot hand, who is defending, match ups, foul situations, etc..

I used to coach an AAU junior high team and we had a situation where we had 10 guys with just about equal talent and we used this very effectively at summer tournaments. We ran a half court press and extended our defense most of the first half because we always had fresh bodies. It really motivated the kids to play hard and they understood the methodology going in.

Not sure I see the quality PG depth on this team to make a full platoon system work. However, that point doesn't invalidate yours at the other positions.

 

[PCHawk]

Izzo also has a roster loaded with really good players. He doesn't have players like Dom, Williams, Dailey and others.

This argument also is irrelevant. It doesn't matter how good the players are compared to other teams. It matters how good they are compared to the other players on their team.

 

[deanvogs]

And I told you guys that Cy5656 (Thanks @NikeHawk21 that fits perfectly!) next big troll would the the size of the rotation.

How do I know it is a troll?

Well first of all it is Cy5656, so that is a dead giveaway.

The other component is this has been a constant theme of Cytwins since the off seasons. Talking about Iowa's derpth as he calls it, and mocking a 10-12 man rotation for months now.

The last part is you have to ask yourself, the guy didn't talk about this "rotation" being too large last year, but now he is hammering it as a problem last year? Where did this problem come from if he didn't have an issue with it last year? He was too busy with his Jordan troll to worry about the rotation last year. He knows he can't troll Jordan any longer, so he will troll the rotation this year.

 

[BGOLD]

Uhl is going to play more than 4 mins per game. I hope we don't play 13 guys every night.

Whatever minutes Uhl plays, they better come at the 3 spot. We have too many more talented players to play at the 4 than him.

 

[BGOLD]

And I told you guys that Cy5656 (Thanks @NikeHawk21 that fits perfectly!) next big troll would the the size of the rotation.

How do I know it is a troll?

Well first of all it is Cy5656, so that is a dead giveaway.

The other component is this has been a constant theme of Cytwins since the off seasons. Talking about Iowa's derpth as he calls it, and mocking a 10-12 man rotation for months now.

The last part is you have to ask yourself, the guy didn't talk about this "rotation" being too large last year, but now he is hammering it as a problem last year? Where did this problem come from if he didn't have an issue with it last year? He was too busy with his Jordan troll to worry about the rotation last year. He knows he can't troll Jordan any longer, so he will troll the rotation this year.

You'd think he'd get his fill from talking about Iowa on CF since that's all he does. Come to think of it, that's all any of them do. The in-state forum is easily their most popular threads. It's going to be fun now that Hoiberg's guys are gone and we're consistently better than them in basketball again. Football is always fun, and that will never change.

 

[InGoodCo]

I just think that if we have 4 or 5 guys that are getting spot minutes to help spell guys and the drop off is not significant, that's not a bad thing. It's not like Fran has that large of rotation every year and that's how he does it. He works with the ingredients he has, but I have 0 doubt that the top 8-9 guys are going to be bearing the bulk share of minutes.

 

[PCHawk]

I just think that if we have 4 or 5 guys that are getting spot minutes to help spell guys and the drop off is not significant, that's not a bad thing. It's not like Fran has that large of rotation every year and that's how he does it. He works with the ingredients he has, but I have 0 doubt that the top 8-9 guys are going to be bearing the bulk share of minutes.

It's also not bad to give a guy a couple of minutes early and see if he's playing well. If not you be lost 2 minutes. If so, your end of bench guy is helping you win. That can be better guys who ha e no other options when their 8th guy is sucking.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Whatever minutes Uhl plays, they better come at the 3 spot. We have too many more talented players to play at the 4 than him.

Yeah he's not as thick as those other guys. He can't bang with the 4s down low as well. I highly doubt he'll play all that much this year those two freshman will quickly pass him along with Kriener... The other guys Cook, Pemsl, had already long passed him. Not to mention Wagner he is more of a 4 than a 3. I think his mins will go down too. I think he might play more as a 3 when they choose to play a bigger lineup out there. But he'll be backing up Baer in that case. So we'll just have to see how it all plays out. I just think as dominant and physically ready to go the freshman look that it'll be tough to keep them off the floor especially in favor of Uhl

 

[InGoodCo]

It's also not bad to give a guy a couple of minutes early and see if he's playing well. If not you be lost 2 minutes. If so, your end of bench guy is helping you win. That can be better guys who ha e no other options when their 8th guy is sucking.

yes... and if they aren't RS, and they are younger, Fran gets em some time and while it may not pay off THAT season, it might pay off down the road. I took a look at TONS of teams minutes and I would say that teams that ONLY play 8 or 9 guys period all season in every game is more of a rarity then the norm. I think when I was arguing regular rotation, I was thinking like - the top 8 or 9 minute getters.... that's the rotation. But I guess i can see where if Williams got in every game, then he was in it. But someone had to spell Jordan right? Also, Williams started the season, so those #'s are prolly skewed?

 

[PCHawk]

There are times where playing more guys might cost us. But there are times where it might save us too. We don't win the Purdue game without Kriener last year. There was one game where Uhl saved us bit can't remember which one. It's a little harder to notice the games we lost because we played too many guys (if there were any) but the main thing is to make sure it helps you at least as much as it hurts you.

 

[BGOLD]

Yeah he's not as thick as those other guys. He can't bang with the 4s down low as well. I highly doubt he'll play all that much this year those two freshman will quickly pass him along with Kriener... The other guys Cook, Pemsl, had already long passed him. Not to mention Wagner he is more of a 4 than a 3. I think his mins will go down too. I think he might play more as a 3 when they choose to play a bigger lineup out there. But he'll be backing up Baer in that case. So we'll just have to see how it all plays out. I just think as dominant and physically ready to go the freshman look that it'll be tough to keep them off the floor especially in favor of Uhl

The fact that you even have to make this argument illustrates our shortage on wings and guards in general. Wagner is the furthest thing from a 3, especially on offense and handling the ball.
Nunge is much more of a 3 option in my mind. Wagner should never play 3, just like Uhl should never play the 4 this year with the additions of Garza and Nunge.

 

[UncleHawk]

Whatever minutes Uhl plays, they better come at the 3 spot. We have too many more talented players to play at the 4 than him.

Uhl and Wagner will be Experienced spot players in general. Although Wagner will get minutes for D as well.

 

[The Big LeHAWKski]

Really? Typically Kentucky plays 10+ every year. Louisville plays 10+ every year. Wisconsin plays 10+ every year. Virginia plays 10+ every year. TCU plays 10+ every year. Notre Dame plays 10+ a year.

All of those programs give the bulk of the minutes to their stars, but they regularly play that many. I guess you must mean just Duke or something.

Agree that it can work with 10 - 12 in the mix. I really like BigD's thought of full-court press being the norm. Gotta have fresh bodies for that to happen! Also, During the winter some kids get sick, they can be stressed over classes, over a girlfriend, homesick, etc. - anything can cause a player to lose focus for a week or two.
The flexibility of a plug & play roster means Fran can work through those tough times that every team faces at some point of the season and he can adjust wherever he needs to in order to get the "W"!!
GO HAWKS!!

 

[Hawk1960]

Lots of good points in this thread. It reminds me of beer. I'd rather have a 12 pack in the fridge over a 6 pack, Having too many is really not a problem I'm going to lose sleep over and sometimes you get one of those "skunky" ones that looks the same as the others but just doesn't deliver the same results.

 

[CyberJJJ]

Agree that it can work with 10 - 12 in the mix. I really like BigD's thought of full-court press being the norm. Gotta have fresh bodies for that to happen! Also, During the winter some kids get sick, they can be stressed over classes, over a girlfriend, homesick, etc. - anything can cause a player to lose focus for a week or two.
The flexibility of a plug & play roster means Fran can work through those tough times that every team faces at some point of the season and he can adjust wherever he needs to in order to get the "W"!!
GO HAWKS!!

I suspect you are a lot more likely to see a lot of half court trap versus full court press. Iowa's depth will be in bigs more than guards. Generally to full court trap I would expect the strength more in the guards/small forwards.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

Honestly, I have no idea what Fran should do. I've never seen this problem with Iowa basketball before. Well, I think the 1986 team played 9 or 10...but wasn't this deep.

 

[UncleHawk]

I suspect you are a lot more likely to see a lot of half court trap versus full court press. Iowa's depth will be in bigs more than guards. Generally to full court trap I would expect the strength more in the guards/small forwards.

Agree. If a strong back up PG option emerges, that might change, but you don't want to run JB into the ground doing a full-court press all game.