Section136
Well-Known Member
I was joking. dave's posts are way too readable to be a herby alt.
Is two conference titles in 15 seasons good enough for you?
- Thread starter dobhawk43
- Start date
I was joking. dave's posts are way too readable to be a herby alt.
Good thing this is all on the computer and not hand written, because if you could see my hand writing, you might not feel that way.
Plus once Red sees this thread everyone is doomed!
MythOfFerentz
Banned
I believe the correct term is either "shared" or "mythical" Big 10 championships.
The hawks have won or shared 7 Big 10 championships since 1957 or 65 years. That is basically the 1 championship per every 10-11 years (11 overall championships in 100 years).
So Ferentz is ahead of the average at 2 championships in 15 years BUT......
I think he had two or three teams that really should have won it or made a deeper run at them. Of course 2009 we played at OSU in a Big 10 winner take all game so that is one year.
But 2010, and 2005 and 2008 could have been much better.
So I am ok with the two championships BUT and I say BUT......
I think KF has underwhelmed from 2005 to now and he could be Lord of the Hawks by winning one or two more champs.
DDStretch
Well-Known Member
In a conference with Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State and Wisconsin - three of those four being historically excellent programs - how many conference titles do you guys really expect in 15 years?
Even if those five teams, including Iowa, shared the pie equally and handed the conference title around, that's still only 3 conference titles in a 15-year span. Iowa has won two under Ferentz, was 2nd once, 3rd once and 4th twice. Of the three times they were fourth, twice they were two games out, which is the same as they were when they placed third. They've certainly been in the hunt with Ferentz more often than not.
Seriously, I'm really asking. What do you guys expect?
If you're expecting Iowa to win half of the conference titles in a 15-year span, you're definitely expecting a lot no matter what school you root for. Conferences races are always going to be tight, and it'll come down to a game here or a game there, a play here or a play there every single year.
Heck, Oregon came into this season as one of the top teams in the country, a team many thought would have a great chance to play for the national title. They didn't even make their conference championship game. It certainly isn't easy to win a conference title.
Even if those five teams, including Iowa, shared the pie equally and handed the conference title around, that's still only 3 conference titles in a 15-year span. Iowa has won two under Ferentz, was 2nd once, 3rd once and 4th twice. Of the three times they were fourth, twice they were two games out, which is the same as they were when they placed third. They've certainly been in the hunt with Ferentz more often than not.
Seriously, I'm really asking. What do you guys expect?
If you're expecting Iowa to win half of the conference titles in a 15-year span, you're definitely expecting a lot no matter what school you root for. Conferences races are always going to be tight, and it'll come down to a game here or a game there, a play here or a play there every single year.
Heck, Oregon came into this season as one of the top teams in the country, a team many thought would have a great chance to play for the national title. They didn't even make their conference championship game. It certainly isn't easy to win a conference title.
to me it is not so much the overall record but the stunning ineptitude by Ferentz. Two consecutive on sides kicks recovered by a low level MAC team. Three years in a row, losing a game after failing to recover an on sides kick--continued indecisiveness with end of game strategy and play calling...field goals or punts or going for it seemed to be as predictable as a coin flip. Just clueless. I have not seen this much poor coaching in a long time. You can talk records of the past all you want but as good assistants leave, and more is placed on Kirk, he has been significantly exposed. His teams lately are best characterized as underprepared and unable to execute even the simplest of plays (like recovering an on sides kick)--truly a stunning fall from grace.
For me, it isn't B1G championships or his salary as many rant about. I don't care if he makes $15 dollars or $15 million a year. But for me, there are way too much extreme ups and downs and it is starting to seem that the downs are getting deeper and lasting longer and longer and the ups are aren't getting as high as they used to and are lasting shorter and shorter.
Plus the top tier teams in the B1G aren't as good on a national level they used to be either, so that makes it worse when Iowa is at the bottom of a league that is considered by many as maybe the 3th or 4th best conference. If Iowa was at the top of this conference it might make it better but they aren't so it looks worse.
Plus '09 was a great year but that year was full of lucky bounces that could have gone the other way. Then in '10 Iowa was loaded with talent and didn't do anything with it. Then in '11 the excuse was they were rebuilding because "look at all the talent they lost", that same talent took them to 7-5 in the regular season. So each season the team has gotten worse and worse.
In my mind '10 set the precedent that this staff needs to overcome, they were loaded with talent and did nothing, so what is the difference now with all the "valuable" experience they gained last year? Sure they are different players and different postition coaches but Ferentz is still the head man.
I take your post as to saying that since Iowa is just Iowa and they have to play against OSU, PSU and Michigan the Iowa fans should be happy with what they get. Well to me that just says accept mediocre seasons and be happy because other schools are better than Iowa in tradition and on the field.
I don't agree with you and this is my opinion.
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Maybe we could put ivy up in Kinnick and beautify it. It might make some of the fans feel better. It seems to work in Chicago.
You know Iowa isn't sexy enough for that.
I dont like to accept the 7-5 and 8-4 seasons and the mediocrity also. Compared to years gone by those are great records but KF proved he could put together a coaching staff and players to win championships.
I agree that his in game coaching problems have caused the hawks to lose a chance to maybe win one or two more championships. Four titles in 15 years would have been great for his legacy. Most by any hawk coach.
Two titles are very good but I think we should be seeing a serious run in the next 4 years or it is just mediocrity in the rest of the KF regime.
I just don't see it getting better for a few years, 4-8 season against a very easy schedule this year just blew me away. Yes there is alot of things that went wrong, injuries, coaching changes were harder to overcome than expected, offensive schemes were horrid, etc... I wasn't expecting a B1G championship this past season but I thought 6-6 was the worst and 7-5 was most likely where they would end up. But 4-8 and heading into next season with an extremely tougher schedule and breaking in a new QB and uncertainty at almost every position.
Starting in 2005 my son and I agreed that KF and KOK were good for blowing one if not two games a year during the game with weird offensive decisions, clock mgmt, etc.
Now the offense is like 1999 , a total unknown almost, and I am not sure they can get the passing game going.
Personnally I dont see how it is so hard to be able to run your tight ends down 5 yards when you need 3 yards, they turn in, sit down route with the defender behind them to the QB, QB throws a good ball to side away from defender, a catch for a first down.
I dont see why we cant do that at a high efficiency when we need a few yards.
If we cant do it then next two years are bleak
Every time it was 3rd down, I didn't want to watch. Although Ferentz said something in one of his weekly pressers after the loss where in the 4th quarter it was 4th and 4 and Vandy picked Zach Derby pre-snap based on the defense, but Derby ran a 1 yard route. Vandy still threw to him when he was covered and CJF was open in the middle of the field. When asked about this he responded, "I hope everyone realizes he doesn't purposely throw short of the 1st down marker." OH REALLY? Then why did it happen all the time, all season long? That may not be the correct route by the receivers or the TEs but isn't that something that the coaches should teach them NOT to do?
Things like that blow me away with Ferentz, he addresses things but has to be deciphered out of his "coach speak" to understand what he means but next week it seems to be the same issue happening again and again.
DDStretch
Well-Known Member
That's not what I'm saying at all, but I get it, it's become the common finger pointing anthem of those who can't accept reality.
Reality is, Iowa is Iowa, which is a school that has to work harder to compete with those tradition-rich schools, it's a program that can compete and beat those schools, and it's a school that will have it's strong seasons where the Hawkeyes compete in the Top 10 nationally, but it will also have its seasons where 4-5 losses can pile up.
A lot of fans around here have some misguided notion that Iowa should be beating the Ohio States, the Michigans, the Penn States and the Nebraskas of the world year in and year out, but with the obvious advantages those schools have as brands over Iowa, that just isn't reality. I'm sorry, but it's not.
College football is 75% about recruiting, and Johnny 5-star ain't walking through the door anytime soon. It doesn't matter if it's Kirk Ferentz, Bob Stoops, Bob Diaco or Vince freakin' Lombardi doing the coaching at Iowa. The Hawkeyes, as a program, are going to have their inconsistencies. Deal with it.
Haven't you figured out that Kirk Ferentz doesn't like to speak candidly about his football program to the public nor is he obligated to explain himself or his coaches' decision-making process to you. Deal with that also.
I assure you, if there's one person in the nation who knows Iowa struggled this year, who knows 4-8 is completely unacceptable and who understands there needs to be serious improvement, it's Kirk Ferentz. If you don't get that, you just don't get it.
When comparing Hayden and the 60's and 70's and Kirk and the modern age, you need to keep in mind that #1. Teams only played 10 and 11 games before. #2. Teams used to actually play a tough schedule in the non conference. I remember when Iowa played teams like Miami when miami was the U and teams like that.
Right now a university like Iowa (which is financially in a great spot), can schedule 6 wins. You didn't used to be able to do that. If you made a bowl, you earned it. I think there was a year in the 70's where ISU went 7-3 with all 3 losses coming to top 5 teams and they didn't make a bowl (foggy memory here), but my point is that when you can schedule 6 wins, meaning 4 unranked non-conference opponents and 2 big ten gimmies, there's no excuse for not making a bowl. None. A 4-8 record this season would be comparable to 1-9 in the 60's or 70's and you could throw in the 80's and the first portion of the 90's.
Right now a university like Iowa (which is financially in a great spot), can schedule 6 wins. You didn't used to be able to do that. If you made a bowl, you earned it. I think there was a year in the 70's where ISU went 7-3 with all 3 losses coming to top 5 teams and they didn't make a bowl (foggy memory here), but my point is that when you can schedule 6 wins, meaning 4 unranked non-conference opponents and 2 big ten gimmies, there's no excuse for not making a bowl. None. A 4-8 record this season would be comparable to 1-9 in the 60's or 70's and you could throw in the 80's and the first portion of the 90's.
Not really sure how your post isn't exactly what I posted. Reality is, Iowa is Iowa? Doesn't matter who the coach is, they can't compete with those schools because of their advantages so in turn you are saying that Iowa fans should be happy with what they get, competing with those schools in your mind isn't a reality. How is that not what I said?
I agree alot of people do believe Iowa SHOULD be beating those schools, there is nothing wrong with that. Iowa should be able to compete with the upper tier teams in the B1G and compete for conference championships, if not why even play? Isn't that the point of conference play, to win a conference championship? I just think they should be competitive year in and year out and to me 7-8 wins should be accomplished annually.
The fans that believe Iowa SHOULD beat those schools can believe what they want, you coming on here and telling them they are wrong, they aren't living in reality isn't going to solve anything, you aren't changing their minds or their opinions. Plus based on your logic applied to this situation is that if Iowa can't beat the OSU's, the Michigans or the PSU's (Do you watch Iowa football, KF has a winning record against PSU, 8-5). Then Iowa should be beating schools like the Minnesotas, ISUs and CENTRAL FREAKING MICHIGAN. Those schools don't have advantages over Iowa, or is Iowa a bottom dweller like those schools too?
I also agree that Iowa isn't going to get 5-star guys and if they do it won't be many, Iowa has gotten a few over the years though, it isn't impossible. That sir is a reality!
I get it, trust me, I don't think KF really thinks this acceptable, if you have read a few of my posts on different threads you would know that. I don't pay his salary so he doesn't have to explain anything to me. Plus another reason I don't give a crap about his salary, I don't pay it, so pay him $10 or $15 million a year. It won't change how I feel about him now or in the future. I was just pointing out what I don't like about him. It's an opinion, I happen to agree with a lot of what you said, I just don't think you are going to get very far with that OPINION on this message board. Because believe it or not everything you said is just an opinion. You can believe all you want that some fans have misguided notions but I will tell you what I know and that is they don't care what you or I think.
I don't think he can turn it around and be competitive annually without huge down years, like this year. He is going continue to mybe win a game against better competition about once a year but he is also going to lose alot against lesser competition as well. Mostly only the "homer" fans think Iowa should be competing for National Championships.
whammer33024
Well-Known Member
we get it, iowa had a bad year this year and has been underwhelming the last couple years. but let's look at conference champs over that 15 year period...
iowa-2 shared
ohio state-6, one being shared with iowa
michigan-3, 2 being shared
wisconsin-4, 1 being shared(one was 1999)
michigan state- 1 shared
northwestern and purdue shared a title in 2000 with michigan.
as bad as you thought? not sure what you're expecting. unless your name is ohio state, winning a conference championship isn't that common. lets keep in mind, tOSU would have won another title this year had they been eligible, knocking wisconsin down to 3.
iowa-2 shared
ohio state-6, one being shared with iowa
michigan-3, 2 being shared
wisconsin-4, 1 being shared(one was 1999)
michigan state- 1 shared
northwestern and purdue shared a title in 2000 with michigan.
as bad as you thought? not sure what you're expecting. unless your name is ohio state, winning a conference championship isn't that common. lets keep in mind, tOSU would have won another title this year had they been eligible, knocking wisconsin down to 3.
Iowa hasn't had a share of the B1G championship since 2004, right?
That was 8 years ago and they have only been really close once since then, am I right?
Isn't as bad as it sounds is it, right?
