Is Luka Getting Too Cocky?
- Thread starter MelroseHawkins
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kicker22
Well-Known Member
While I 100% agree with the "act like you've been there before" crowd. I like the emotion we're seeing from this team. They're playing with a chippiness/swagger (whether considered overly confident or cocky) that finally has me feeling that mentality they feel they are as good or better than anyone they're up against. I always felt that Fran teams lacked this mentality and thought it fed directly into our inability to finish out close games in the past.
As far as my thoughts on whether Garza is crossing the line? IMO Garza's having fun and expressing his dominance while getting inside the head of the other team and making a statement. If opponents don't like it then it's on them to shut him down. But as of this moment his play and that of his teammates is backing up this new found ego and the program as a whole is benefitting as the wins keep piling up.
As far as my thoughts on whether Garza is crossing the line? IMO Garza's having fun and expressing his dominance while getting inside the head of the other team and making a statement. If opponents don't like it then it's on them to shut him down. But as of this moment his play and that of his teammates is backing up this new found ego and the program as a whole is benefitting as the wins keep piling up.
kicker22
Well-Known Member
Certainly not better or worse, people are people and that hasn't really changed over time. But social norms for interacting have definitely changed.
I mentioned that MJ was a trash-talker (legendary in that regard, along with Bird), but he never had choreographed "moves" he would bust out after a great play. He would side-talk his opponent on the way down the court, he would give dismissive glares, he might shake his head...all subtle things. He might get in a guy's face, shove him, fight him, but none of it was ever for show. What is his most memorable "theatrical" move? A spontaneous shoulder shrug to his buddy Ahmad after he hit a ton of 3's in a quarter.
These days, everything has to be a production, from trash-talk and on-court antics to asking a girl out on a date. It is not wrong or right, it is just different.
I see no difference between MJ's arrogance and that what I see in today's game. I think shooting free-throws with his eyes closed may also rank up there with his most theatrical moves, but either way he knew exactly what he was doing and knew how to get under his opponent's skin. There's a very fine line between confident and cocky and I have no problem with either of these if you're a good teammate and can back it up. The great,s are able to get inside an opponents head to give their team an edge. I'll disagree that none of it was for "show", I think he knew exactly what he was doing and knew exactly when to do it".
When you say it was for "show", what do you mean? I think he absolutely did things to show his opponent that he was about be dominated and embarrassed. I don't think he cared that much to show the rest of the world what he was trying to do. When it came to what he was showing the world, he was much more interested in projecting an image that would sell shoes. The FT thing is an interesting case. Part of that is, "Look how good I am." But another part is, "Look what a fun-loving guy I am."
In a sense, MJ's arrogance was more intimate and directed, between him and the opponent, not between him and the rest of the world.
As with so many things these days, we are losing person-to-person connection, but we are getting really good at projecting an image to a larger audience. As I have stated many times, I am not making a value judgement about this change, but I think the fact that the change has happened is pretty undeniable.
Spike Lee is a perfect example of how I think it's always been more than just "player on player" ahit talk. If it was happening with him, it was happening everywhere. It was just a lit harder to make public back then. The only thing that has changed is we see it all now.
Look at the NFL. Everyone was pre meditating their next great celebration for their next touchdown. It got so out of hand they changed the rules. I disagree strongly that anything has changed, other than social media showing it all.
Look at the NFL. Everyone was pre meditating their next great celebration for their next touchdown. It got so out of hand they changed the rules. I disagree strongly that anything has changed, other than social media showing it all.
From Iowa assistant WBB coach Jan Jenson speaking in advance of the Megan Gustafson jersey retirement ceremony (from an article on The Athletic:
“The ability to be a selfless star is not only rare, but it just isn’t as popular,” Jensen said. “We live in a culture where we pop our jerseys and self-promote. When you see a genuine, authentic star who is truly as happy for everyone else as for yourself, you do a double take.”
smitharooney
Well-Known Member
Exactly . Whatever he needs to do to stay motivated or engaged to keep playing well I’m all for .
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
Tell me the next time Garza does this showboating crap.
Ultimate attention-whore
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Kind of like the Wisconsin basketball players a few years ago doing the "discount double check" pose in honor of Aaron Rodgers.
At this point, it seems pretty hard to separate the emotion they show from their toughness. I am not sure if they could have one without the other.
I did notice in the "most hated player in the B1G" thread, things that tend to make us hate an opposing player are "look at me" antics. So I guess the bottom line with things like flexing and blowing kisses, do it for us, and do it in a winning effort, and we will love you for it. Keep it rollin'.
I did notice in the "most hated player in the B1G" thread, things that tend to make us hate an opposing player are "look at me" antics. So I guess the bottom line with things like flexing and blowing kisses, do it for us, and do it in a winning effort, and we will love you for it. Keep it rollin'.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Yea, I'm fine with it. At least this team is showing emotion, which shows they are invested.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
I remember getting the feeling with the 2008 football Hawkeyes, once Stanzi settled in, that we had a chance to best any team in the country on a given Saturday as long as we had Shonn Greene in our backfield.
I'm starting to get that same feeling wirh Luka and this basketball team
I'm starting to get that same feeling wirh Luka and this basketball team
kicker22
Well-Known Member
I was never a Jordan fan so I'll be the first to admit that I saw a lot of his actions and antics different then most, but very fair assessment in your post above. After re-reading your post you may have been spot on, but I can't help wonder if the "look what a fun loving guy I am" persona wasn't about nothing more than merchandising and wasn't simply part of the act. Again, how I see MJ is totally skewed as he was one of those guys that you either loved or loved to hate simply because he was in a class of his own, so I could easily be wrong.
Jordan, like Bird before him, understood two things that, on the face of it, would not seem to go together. He knew he was the face not only of the NBA, but bluntly of all professional sports. And so he always seemed willing to sit down after games with the national play-by-play guys and give them whatever they needed to be the ambassador of the sport.
But as for trash-talking, again like Bird before him, what he showed was a cocksuredness that was indeed aimed at his opponent. To tell an opponent exactly what you are going to do - and then do it - is not my idea of trash-talking. To be clear, some true trash-talkers rarely talk about stuff on the court - that kind of garbage I have no patience for.
But even though I wasn't a great fan of either, I respect them both for being able to do all they did. I will never forget the night the Bird-led Celtics and the Magic-led Lakers were going to square off in a regular season game (for about the 60th time). But that night, Magic was out - he couldn't play - and I don't even remember why, because I know that, aside from his ACL in his second pro season, that didn't happen often. But Bird went up to him before the game, and said, at least initially in a serious tone, "Guy, I'm so sorry you can't play tonight - it would've been a great match-up for the fans. But I'm gonna make it up to you. I'm gonna go out tonight and score 40 points in your honor." And, of course, he did.
