HawkPrdatr40
Well-Known Member
IMO for Fran we are in year 8 and I've got to think the seat is starting to warm a bit and if next year we don't see a trend upwards it starts to really warm up..
Is Fran And Iowa Basketball At A Tipping Point?
- Thread starter MelroseHawkins
- Start date
ibahawkeye
Well-Known Member
Agreed and I thought it would happen this year based on how they played last year without Jok and with the addition of Garza and Nunge. But we are one of the youngest teams in the nation and the combination of Baer's injury, Williams transferring and Connor with mono was too much for the young team to overcome.
mopkins
King Kong
I love the "purists" who say the play-in games don't count but ignore the fact that the field expanded to 64 teams back in the 80s. So for some reason teams 33-64 count as officially in the NCAA tournament, but hey lets throw a huge fit about teams 65-68.
Also, tell 2011 VCU that the play-in game doesn't count. They took it to the final four. Not bad for not being in the NCAA tournament to begin with.
Also, tell 2011 VCU that the play-in game doesn't count. They took it to the final four. Not bad for not being in the NCAA tournament to begin with.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
We didn't see either a fast break or dunk or a full court press by Iowa in like 3 years. They didn't even have the personnel to be able to press when the needed to. It was pathetic. Matt Gaten's got screwed out of that commitment.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
#1DieHardHawk
Well-Known Member
Fran's situation is interesting. Yes, he single-handedly brought this program out of the depths of hell, and has consistently produced competitive teams, but, some coaches excel at rebuilding yet struggle to maintain that upward trajectory.
Right now, Fran is at a bit of a tipping point in terms of demonstrating whether or not he's not just a "rebuilder." The next few seasons could very well give us that answer.
Personally, I think it is quite reasonable to reevaluate the program when the current freshmen are seniors. At that point, if we appear to be circling the drain, then, Fran's seat could and should get quite warm. My prediction, though, is that most fans will be singing his praises again around that time.
Right now, Fran is at a bit of a tipping point in terms of demonstrating whether or not he's not just a "rebuilder." The next few seasons could very well give us that answer.
Personally, I think it is quite reasonable to reevaluate the program when the current freshmen are seniors. At that point, if we appear to be circling the drain, then, Fran's seat could and should get quite warm. My prediction, though, is that most fans will be singing his praises again around that time.
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HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
Lick's teams.....could beat this current team. This team is maybe a shade or 2 above that morgue of a program under Lick with this current roster. I agree, he should not be fired this year.
But, he better have this team NCAA bound in the next couple years (even better if they don't going slumping into it) or it is likely to be dicey for him. It is year 8 after all. Give him some slack for digging the program out of the ground, but it is year 8.
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
Rob...could not disagree more. This team is very much Lick-like....just at a faster pace...maybe with some more athletic pieces. But, Lick's teams, I hate to say it, were more complete and that would give them more than a good chance of winning against this roster in year 8.
Well, that is nice Iowa has been above .500 the past five seasons. But, this team is far from doing it this year. With Conner now in the mix, I give Iowa maybe a 20-25% chance of getting there. Would love to be wrong.
Again, Fran does not deserve to be fired, but his seat is warming. He can easily cool it off by recruiting better with his guard play and getting his team NCAA bound in the next couple of years.
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
This current team is likely headed for the same destination (in year 8) as those Big Ten LIck teams. And, those Big Ten Lick teams, could beat this team. These are Fran's guys and his roster creation.
Do I want Lick back, hell no. Do I want Alford back, hell no. Do I think Fran has done positive things, yes! He took the program out of the ground. But, this current team is just as about as stiff and frozen as the Lick teams of the past.
Again, hope I'm wrong and they have the whole Big Ten season and some remaining non-conference games. But, it is not foolish to compare where we are now, in year 8, with Lick's teams.
RobHowe
Administrator
You're free to just throw out the last five seasons during which Iowa, Michigan State and Wisconsin are the only teams in the Big Ten to have an above .500 record each year. Just judge Fran after 11 games of Year 8. That seems reasonable. No other teams in the country have dips. And passive aggressive tksirius is liking all your posts, so you have that going for you, too.
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
Hate to say it, but Iowa has been unwatchable, at times, the times they have been on television. No doubt, they had a nice 2nd half last night, against.......Southern
. Hey, better than losing and maybe Conner can help even some things out. But, the trust bank is low right now. They have a lot of proving to do.
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
I think we all hope to be wrong. We are all Hawkeye Fans here (at least I hope
). However, imho, seeing what I see, what some others might see, 11 games in, we are what we are......badly coached in basketball fundamentals and an incomplete team. I think it is correctable and Fran still has the time to fix it. But, the trends that I'm seeing go beyond 11 games into year 8. The same bad habits are here in year 8 that plagued Fran's best teams to date.-Poor Defensive Rotations on Shooters
-Poor Free-Throw Shooting
-Long Scoring Droughts
-Dumbfounding Turnovers
-Mentally Fragile
Doesn't matter if they are young or veteran. The same problems exist.
Bottom line, I would give Fran, all things considered, an A- for getting the program out of the dirt. But, as things look now, we are several steps behind schedule in year 8. Let's see how it plays out, but I don't think its foolish to start looking at the data.
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ibahawkeye
Well-Known Member
Listened to Jess Settles on 1460 this afternoon and he mentioned that 77 points on average is highest for Big Ten, our free throw shooting is last and turnovers are highest. And we allow opponents to shoot 46% from 3.
Seems the D is still the issue along with valuing possessions and need better free throw shooting.
Seems the D is still the issue along with valuing possessions and need better free throw shooting.
RobHowe
Administrator
My premise is that saying Fran should be gone or is on the hot seat is nutty based on what he's accomplished with a program that was in the crapper when he took over. Yet, there are people on here trying to make parallels between he and Lick. That blows my mind and IMO shows a severe lack of perspective and, quite frankly, memory loss.
Does Fran have to win? Sure. He knows that. If he misses the NCAA Tourney this year and next, the heat is on. But it has to play out for me. I'm not going to call for his head for what could happen. It has to happen.
Does Fran have to win? Sure. He knows that. If he misses the NCAA Tourney this year and next, the heat is on. But it has to play out for me. I'm not going to call for his head for what could happen. It has to happen.
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
No question, it is the same problems we have been seeing throughout the prior 7 years (and into the rebuild and better years) and this year. We love running and pressing. But we have to be competent at defense to. We have to value the foul line. Mr. Davis's teams made more free-throws than our opponents attempted. And, that darn 3 point line that has plagued us all the way back to the good Dr.
Wow the Fran hate is strong in here. Anyone ever heard of the saying sometimes you gotta take a step back to be able to take two steps forward? I feel that's where these guys are. This team is heavy on the sophs and freshmen. Baer and Wagner are the only upper classman playing significant mins. And Wagner isn't exactly playing a huge role. I think some of us (Me especially) thought Cook would be further along then he is. I thought Moss might be further along. And the freshman were a crapshoot as they always are especially big guys. Look at Garza he's teased us with his potential now. But he's going to be inconsistent. But think about where he is compared to where Woody ever was let alone his freshman year. Let them get a years worth of experience and let's see how they look at the end of the year and how Weiskamp looks as he enters the fray next yr. I think between Conner and getting more mins and Weiskamp allowing Moss to not shoulder so much ( I think he's pressing feeling pressure out there it seems like he plays hard the first 3 mins and the last 3 with a whole game inbetween where he's AWOL)they'll make a huge leap next year and then the following year after that you add the younger McCaffery to the group. As rough as this year has been and may end up I think there's a light at the end of the tunnel...
tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
One thing we can all agree on is that expectations have been lowered.
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
Yep, there was a time when the NCAA tournament was an almost yearly thing. The expectation was can we get passed the 2nd round. Now, it is like can we make the sucker...even with expansion of slotting and play in games. Thanks Bowlsby, Alford, Lick, Barta............
RobHowe
Administrator
Or, it's being a reasonable observer of the situation and actually waiting for things to unfold. I know. Crazy in this hot take society.
