Iowa's Attrition Compared to BIG Schools

spudhawk

spudhawk

Well-Known Member
Here is the list of players who committed to Big Ten schools over the past 5 seasons- 2007 to 2011. The reason I limited it to 5 years was that a commit from the 2007 season would have played his final season this year following a red shirt. Iowa has had the third most turnover in the conference over that time period, lost 43 players who had eligibility remaining for a variety of reasons. In this time period only three players left early for the draft from Iowa- Bulaga, Sash and Rieff.

One last thing- other than Ferentz, only Zook, Bielema, Dantonio, and Paterno were head coaches for this entire time period.

Team 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 Total
Illinois 21(23) 28 20(22) 23 27 (28) 124
Indiana 20 20 19 25 24 108
Iowa 22 25 21 22 25 115
Michigan 20 24 22 27 21 114
Michigan State 22 (23) 21 23 22 21 110
Minnesota 24 29 20 26 26 125
Nebraska 27 28 20 22 20 117
Northwestern 19 20 18 17 17 91
Ohio State 15 20 25 19 24 103
Penn State 21 14 27 19 16 97
Purdue 19 26 20 24 15 104
Wisconsin 18 26 21 24 19 108

Coaching changes in that time period- Indiana 2, Michigan 2, Minnesota 1, Nebraska 1, Purdue 1

2007- Bulaga*, JaCody Coleman, Bruce Davis**, Cedric Everson, Zach Furlong**, Cody Hundertmark, Diauntae Morrow, Dez Moses, Jevon Pugh, Tyler Sash*, Abe Satterfield

2008- David Blackwell****, Jeff Brinson, David Cato, J.D. Griggs, Nate Guillory****, Jewel Hampton, Willie Lowe**, DeMarco Paine, Shane Prater, Adam Robinson, Jason Semmes, Khalif Staten

2009- Josh Brown, Scott Covert, Tyler Harrell, Martin Hopkins, Matt Murphy, Stephane Ngoumou****, Anthony Schiavone, Brandon Wegher

2010- Marcus Coker, AJ Derby, Anthony Ferguson, Austin Gray, Donavan Johnson, Austin Vier***
2011- Rodney Coe ****, Marcus Grant, Dan Heir****, Mikail McCall, John Raymon

Total 43 players, * NFL early entry, ** graduated, left with eligibility, *** Medical hardship, **** Never made it to campus or through camp
 
spudhawk said:
Here is the list of players who committed to Big Ten schools over the past 5 seasons- 2007 to 2011. The reason I limited it to 5 years was that a commit from the 2007 season would have played his final season this year following a red shirt. Iowa has had the third most turnover in the conference over that time period, lost 43 players who had eligibility remaining for a variety of reasons. In this time period only three players left early for the draft from Iowa- Bulaga, Sash and Rieff.

One last thing- other than Ferentz, only Zook, Bielema, Dantonio, and Paterno were head coaches for this entire time period.

Team 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 Total
Illinois 21(23) 28 20(22) 23 27 (28) 124
Indiana 20 20 19 25 24 108
Iowa 22 25 21 22 25 115
Michigan 20 24 22 27 21 114
Michigan State 22 (23) 21 23 22 21 110
Minnesota 24 29 20 26 26 125
Nebraska 27 28 20 22 20 117
Northwestern 19 20 18 17 17 91
Ohio State 15 20 25 19 24 103
Penn State 21 14 27 19 16 97
Purdue 19 26 20 24 15 104
Wisconsin 18 26 21 24 19 108

Coaching changes in that time period- Indiana 2, Michigan 2, Minnesota 1, Nebraska 1, Purdue 1

2007- Bulaga*, JaCody Coleman, Bruce Davis**, Cedric Everson, Zach Furlong**, Cody Hundertmark, Diauntae Morrow, Dez Moses, Jevon Pugh, Tyler Sash*, Abe Satterfield

2008- David Blackwell****, Jeff Brinson, David Cato, J.D. Griggs, Nate Guillory****, Jewel Hampton, Willie Lowe**, DeMarco Paine, Shane Prater, Adam Robinson, Jason Semmes, Khalif Staten

2009- Josh Brown, Scott Covert, Tyler Harrell, Martin Hopkins, Matt Murphy, Stephane Ngoumou****, Anthony Schiavone, Brandon Wegher

2010- Marcus Coker, AJ Derby, Anthony Ferguson, Austin Gray, Donavan Johnson, Austin Vier***
2011- Rodney Coe ****, Marcus Grant, Dan Heir****, Mikail McCall, John Raymon

Total 43 players, * NFL early entry, ** graduated, left with eligibility, *** Medical hardship, **** Never made it to campus or through camp
Click to expand...


Where is the list of players from the other schools.....?
 
cmhawks99 said:
Where is the list of players from the other schools.....?
Click to expand...

You can do that work, that took several hours to put together. What it shows me is that something is seriously broken inside the program. Either in recruiting evaluation, relating to coaches when they get on campus, or Chic is failing in a big way. I always think the program that most closely resembles Iowa is Penn State. They recruit better, would presumably have more egos to manage and managed to only sign 97 players over the last 5 seasons. Obviously the rest of the Big Ten is doing a better job of retaining players. Losing 3 or 4 kids per class should be acceptable. Iowa has lost 8 per class over the last 5 seasons and the number of kids who left before they ever even got started is very alarming.
 
Basically 88 scholarships is the limit. so over a 5 year period theoretically you would have 88 players. Only Northwestern was even close to that number. And yes this is a list of the commits over the last 5 seasons. I was familiar with every name from Iowa and will not be with all of the other schools. What is telling is that only Illinois had the same coach over this period of time and had more attrition. Out of the 43 players that Iowa has lost only 3 left for the NFL, and I believe that Furlong, Davis and Hundertmark finished with their degrees at Iowa.
 
spudhawk said:
You can do that work, that took several hours to put together. What it shows me is that something is seriously broken inside the program. Either in recruiting evaluation, relating to coaches when they get on campus, or Chic is failing in a big way. I always think the program that most closely resembles Iowa is Penn State. They recruit better, would presumably have more egos to manage and managed to only sign 97 players over the last 5 seasons. Obviously the rest of the Big Ten is doing a better job of retaining players. Losing 3 or 4 kids per class should be acceptable. Iowa has lost 8 per class over the last 5 seasons and the number of kids who left before they ever even got started is very alarming.
Click to expand...

U r kidding right....!? In all of the above right....!?! It never ceases to stop amazzing me. We have guys on here that complain because we never sign more than we do and yet you attempted to reverse engineer that which can't be reverse engineered....
　
Never mind the obvious which is "this" faulty number doesn't even help your cause, in that "bad" Iowa has +/- 7 of 6 other teams...and way below 2 other teams for a total of EIGHT teams and you somehow concocted a theory that THIS proves there is something wrong with Iowa. Seriously......?!?!?!
　
This doesn't even count the fact that two schools that I assume you think are "good" (PSU & PU) have fewer NFL alumni so they AREN'T recruiting better and PSU I will stop just short of guaranteeing have had just as many or more kids chased off. Heck they've had even more criminal cases than us over the last several years and have had several QB's transfer out if I remember corectly...
　
This is decided proof of NOTHING!!
 
spudhawk said:
Here is the list of players who committed to Big Ten schools over the past 5 seasons- 2007 to 2011. The reason I limited it to 5 years was that a commit from the 2007 season would have played his final season this year following a red shirt. Iowa has had the third most turnover in the conference over that time period, lost 43 players who had eligibility remaining for a variety of reasons. In this time period only three players left early for the draft from Iowa- Bulaga, Sash and Rieff.

One last thing- other than Ferentz, only Zook, Bielema, Dantonio, and Paterno were head coaches for this entire time period.

Team 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 Total
Illinois 21(23) 28 20(22) 23 27 (28) 124
Indiana 20 20 19 25 24 108
Iowa 22 25 21 22 25 115
Michigan 20 24 22 27 21 114
Michigan State 22 (23) 21 23 22 21 110
Minnesota 24 29 20 26 26 125
Nebraska 27 28 20 22 20 117
Northwestern 19 20 18 17 17 91
Ohio State 15 20 25 19 24 103
Penn State 21 14 27 19 16 97
Purdue 19 26 20 24 15 104
Wisconsin 18 26 21 24 19 108

Coaching changes in that time period- Indiana 2, Michigan 2, Minnesota 1, Nebraska 1, Purdue 1

2007- Bulaga*, JaCody Coleman, Bruce Davis**, Cedric Everson, Zach Furlong**, Cody Hundertmark, Diauntae Morrow, Dez Moses, Jevon Pugh, Tyler Sash*, Abe Satterfield

2008- David Blackwell****, Jeff Brinson, David Cato, J.D. Griggs, Nate Guillory****, Jewel Hampton, Willie Lowe**, DeMarco Paine, Shane Prater, Adam Robinson, Jason Semmes, Khalif Staten

2009- Josh Brown, Scott Covert, Tyler Harrell, Martin Hopkins, Matt Murphy, Stephane Ngoumou****, Anthony Schiavone, Brandon Wegher

2010- Marcus Coker, AJ Derby, Anthony Ferguson, Austin Gray, Donavan Johnson, Austin Vier***
2011- Rodney Coe ****, Marcus Grant, Dan Heir****, Mikail McCall, John Raymon

Total 43 players, * NFL early entry, ** graduated, left with eligibility, *** Medical hardship, **** Never made it to campus or through camp
Click to expand...


Thanks for this effort it is very helpful to give me a perspective. We have a Problem
 
spudhawk said:
Basically 88 scholarships is the limit. so over a 5 year period theoretically you would have 88 players. Only Northwestern was even close to that number. And yes this is a list of the commits over the last 5 seasons. I was familiar with every name from Iowa and will not be with all of the other schools. What is telling is that only Illinois had the same coach over this period of time and had more attrition. Out of the 43 players that Iowa has lost only 3 left for the NFL, and I believe that Furlong, Davis and Hundertmark finished with their degrees at Iowa.
Click to expand...



Here is just a quick example of what is likely many...Texas, similar to us has signed 114 kids in the last four years and yet a guy on that Texas board told me the other day they have lost 12 this year with more to come. For the record he didn't seem upset about it either. Said it happens and he'd expect it is normal for most big time teams....He is smart and well read.....our guys, well....I'll say this....if it wasn't that I know you are really just trying to build a case about how bad KF and staff are, I'd give you kudos for at least trying. It seems like that would work, but it doesn't.....in retrospect though its just another lame attempt to prove what you "want" to be true.


Incidentally he said OU had at least 8.....this stuff happens guys, I know you need it to be more, but it isn't there!!
 
cmhawks99 said:
Where is the list of players from the other schools.....?
Click to expand...

spudhawk said:
You can do that work, that took several hours to put together.
Click to expand...

Excuse me? You're the one who just claimed Iowa has the third-highest attrition, now back it up and post the numbers and source(s).

If you did the work, and it's accurate, I applaud you. Facts on this topic are sorely needed.

EDIT: Spud has posted the numbers, please ignore the nonsense below and click here: http://www.hawkeyenation.com/forum/...rition-compared-big-schools-5.html#post680751
 
Last edited:
Billso said:
Excuse me? You're the one who just claimed Iowa has the third-highest attrition, now back it up and post the numbers and source(s).

If you did the work, and it's accurate, I applaud you. Facts on this topic are sorely needed.
Click to expand...

He didn't do the work...he counted schollies given and did the math. Its a faulty application. Furthermore over a 5 year period we are plus or minus 7 of 6 other teams and way below two others.....which makes us "average", as I have said over & over & over!!

Very poor attempt
 
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cmhawks99 said:
He didn't do the work...he counted schollies given and did the math. Its a faulty application. Furthermore over a 5 year period we are plus or minus 7 of 6 other teams and way below to others.....which makes us "average", as I have said over & over & over!!

Very poor attempt
Click to expand...

What math are you talking about? I didn't understand your post and still don't. He hasn't posted any attrition numbers from other schools, only signings. So there's nothing to applaud or criticize yet.
 
cmhawks99 said:
U r kidding right....!? In all of the above right....!?! It never ceases to stop amazzing me. We have guys on here that complain because we never sign more than we do and yet you attempted to reverse engineer that which can't be reverse engineered....
　
Never mind the obvious which is "this" faulty number doesn't even help your cause, in that "bad" Iowa has +/- 7 of 6 other teams...and way below 2 other teams for a total of EIGHT teams and you somehow concocted a theory that THIS proves there is something wrong with Iowa. Seriously......?!?!?!
　
This doesn't even count the fact that two schools that I assume you think are "good" (PSU & PU) have fewer NFL alumni so they AREN'T recruiting better and PSU I will stop just short of guaranteeing have had just as many or more kids chased off. Heck they've had even more criminal cases than us over the last several years and have had several QB's transfer out if I remember corectly...
　
This is decided proof of NOTHING!!
Click to expand...

Basically Chad I don't understand anything that you wrote here. But if you are disagreeing with me than I am probably on the right track, especially with my bolded statements from your quote.

In case I was unclear, and I don't think I was, what I am saying is that PSU is the program that most closely resembles Iowa in scheme and coaching tenure. PSU out-recruits Iowa by almost any measure. But they have managed to lose less players over the last five classes. PSU matches Iowa's football program in graduation rate, academic all americans, etc.

The thing about the 43 number is that it isn't done. There are likely more defections coming. Lets eliminate the 3 kids who left for the draft as they should be looked at in a positive light. That leaves 40 kids over the last 5 seasons that were offered scholarships, accepted them and didn't manage to make it through their career. So 40/115 is a 35% attrition rate. Go through those names again. Semmes, Morrow, Cato, Paine, Hundertmark or Coleman could have helped this team over the last two seasons?

You are freaking crazy if you don't look at the amount of players that have left, the attrition rate at specific positions, and the number of players that have left from the last two classes alone (11, freaking 11 players already from the last two classes with more to come) and you think this is common? The burden to show that this common is on you, not me. And don't bring me any b.s. SEC garbage either, this isn't an over-signing issue it is a failure of the coaching staff to keep the kids they have chosen to represent the university at a 35% clip. Something is terribly broken in the football program.
 
Spud stop, please...............you are using a poor formula and if we disagree and you consider that good, look around. I don't think many people would consider you Sherlock Holmes....
　
What you did is NOT proof of defections. And IF it were.....how do you explain Iowa right there with 6 other teams. the diff between 107 and 115 over 5 years (that's the biggest stretch of 6) isn't proof of anything....furthermore if PSU was recruiting better why don't they have as many NFL alumni as us....?!


Couple simple questions I'll wait.




spudhawk said:
Basically Chad I don't understand anything that you wrote here. But if you are disagreeing with me than I am probably on the right track, especially with my bolded statements from your quote.

In case I was unclear, and I don't think I was, what I am saying is that PSU is the program that most closely resembles Iowa in scheme and coaching tenure. PSU out-recruits Iowa by almost any measure. But they have managed to lose less players over the last five classes. PSU matches Iowa's football program in graduation rate, academic all americans, etc.

The thing about the 43 number is that it isn't done. There are likely more defections coming. Lets eliminate the 3 kids who left for the draft as they should be looked at in a positive light. That leaves 40 kids over the last 5 seasons that were offered scholarships, accepted them and didn't manage to make it through their career. So 40/115 is a 35% attrition rate. Go through those names again. Semmes, Morrow, Cato, Paine, Hundertmark or Coleman could have helped this team over the last two seasons?

You are freaking crazy if you don't look at the amount of players that have left, the attrition rate at specific positions, and the number of players that have left from the last two classes alone (11, freaking 11 players already from the last two classes with more to come) and you think this is common? The burden to show that this common is on you, not me. And don't bring me any b.s. SEC garbage either, this isn't an over-signing issue it is a failure of the coaching staff to keep the kids they have chosen to represent the university at a 35% clip. Something is terribly broken in the football program.
Click to expand...
 
This thread is a waste...it is a thread started by someone with a problem with Kirk/the program. He puts one sided, half a--ed stats (if they can be called stats) out and then states his opinion as facts.

The fact is, every team loses players every year. Some years are worse than others, some are better. Most of the time, it is the student that has the problem, not the coach or the program.
 
Billso said:
What math are you talking about? I didn't understand your post and still don't. He hasn't posted any attrition numbers from other schools, only signings. So there's nothing to applaud or criticize yet.
Click to expand...

He is saying because Iowa signed 115 kids and PSU only 97 them somehow that proves they have less attrition. It doesn't calculate like that though....
 
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