Iowa vs NIU Two Deeps

hawkinaclownhouse said:
Seven or eight years ago everyone was talking about how we were going to get killed up front by other teams over powering our DTs because we were starting two undersized freshman.

I am not saying that Davis, Cooper and Trinca-Pasat are Mitch King and Matt Kroul, but how about they play a snap or two before we get all doom and gloom.
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King and Kroul did get pushed around as freshmen. There is plenty of reason for doom and gloom.
 
There's no question the Hawks don't have the talent on the defensive line that we're used to seeing. From a purely player-by-player talent standpoint, this year will be a step back.

BUT, I also don't think we're going to ask them to do nearly as much. This will be the first time in 12 years or so that we aren't going to leave the D-Line on their own to stop the run and generate a pass rush. And I really our back seven. So I still think the defense as a whole could surprise, probably by asking the D-line to just clog the run and keep contain on the QB. Frankly, with the number of mobile QBs we face and the increasing amount of dink-and-dunk passing schemes, I don't know how important having a huge pass rush will be this year. How many pro-style drop-back QBs do we even face, and how many of them are any good? How much would a huge bull-rushing defensive end even help against Kain Colter or Taylor Martinez?
 
JonDMiller said:
I love optimism, hope and I am a faith based person. That said, to believe that this DL is going to be as good or better than last year's by midseason...can't go there with you. Don't think they will get there at all this year. Mike Daniels was drafted. There is not a player on Iowa's line, who if they were all draft eligible this coming spring, would get drafted. Binns was probably the most crafty DE Iowa has had. He was the best at reading his keys and staying home in outside contain of the KF era, and the best lineman at batting down passes of the Ferentz era. You can't add up how many yards and or first downs he saved with his uncanny knack to knock down passes. No, he was not an elite pass rusher on the edge, but I don't think we'll see one of those from Iowa this year.
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Nardo finished w/ more tackles than Daniels and Binns last year and he played in 3 fewer games. I think we forget how hobbled Daniels was for a lot of 2011 and Binns was much more effective 2 years ago.
 
A hobbled Mike Daniels was nowhere near the player that showed up vs OK in the Bowl or in Green Bay. Nardo also was injured for most of the season. Then Alvis went down. Our d-line last year was operating on fumes,Binns,and injured players. Depth is better this year,but we need to get lucky on the health front. If we do,this group can more than match last years production.
 
olivecourt said:
There's no question the Hawks don't have the talent on the defensive line that we're used to seeing. From a purely player-by-player talent standpoint, this year will be a step back.

BUT, I also don't think we're going to ask them to do nearly as much. This will be the first time in 12 years or so that we aren't going to leave the D-Line on their own to stop the run and generate a pass rush. And I really our back seven. So I still think the defense as a whole could surprise, probably by asking the D-line to just clog the run and keep contain on the QB. Frankly, with the number of mobile QBs we face and the increasing amount of dink-and-dunk passing schemes, I don't know how important having a huge pass rush will be this year. How many pro-style drop-back QBs do we even face, and how many of them are any good? How much would a huge bull-rushing defensive end even help against Kain Colter or Taylor Martinez?
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I agree that Iowa's back 7 are good. Particularly the secondary. Last year LB's and DL were both question marks and this year the LB's should be better, but the DL is still a work in progress.

Ineffective play by the front 4 will cause problems for the back 7. I don't think this is a defense that can get away with much.
 
I don't think this year's defensive line has the potential to be as disruptive as last year, with Mike Daniels and his crazy first step and leverage and Binns and his go-go gadget pass blocking arms. I do actually like the size of this year's line a little bit better, and as others have noted, if they stay healthy they can be decent. There's also some good freshman depth that could develop as the year goes on, like when Clayborn and Ballard worked their way into the starting lineup.

Also, as someone else noted, Daniels really wasn't himself for most of the year. That performance of his in the bowl game against Oklahoma was more like the Mike Daniels of 2010-2011.

I'm really interested to see how the coaches compensate for the inexperience on the line, though. I would guess that they will stunt a lot less than Iowa DLs have in recent years, which will make it a lot easier for them to just focus on holding the point of attack and contain on the edges. I also hope they take advantage of having three pretty quick linebackers and solid defensive backs and work in some interesting coverage/blitz wrinkles.
 
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Re: Really?

JonDMiller said:
I tend to agree with this..probably as straight forward as anything we've seen week one in years. The no Derby thing on there is a bit of a mystery. Other than that, everything else seems explainable by what is out there (re: Rogers wearing a lot of red jersey, etc)
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Z Derby is either:

1) Not that good, or not as good as Hamilton, or

2) Paying the price for AJs transfer.

There is also the third possibility of "A little of both"...
 
JonDMiller said:
I love optimism, hope and I am a faith based person. That said, to believe that this DL is going to be as good or better than last year's by midseason...can't go there with you. Don't think they will get there at all this year. Mike Daniels was drafted. There is not a player on Iowa's line, who if they were all draft eligible this coming spring, would get drafted. Binns was probably the most crafty DE Iowa has had. He was the best at reading his keys and staying home in outside contain of the KF era, and the best lineman at batting down passes of the Ferentz era. You can't add up how many yards and or first downs he saved with his uncanny knack to knock down passes. No, he was not an elite pass rusher on the edge, but I don't think we'll see one of those from Iowa this year.
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Agreed. And it shows how truly good Clayborn and Ballard were that they basically kept Binns out of the starting line-up for 2 1/2 seasons.
 
kirby said:
JonDMiller said:
I love optimism, hope and I am a faith based person. That said, to believe that this DL is going to be as good or better than last year's by midseason...can't go there with you. Don't think they will get there at all this year. Mike Daniels was drafted. There is not a player on Iowa's line, who if they were all draft eligible this coming spring, would get drafted. Binns was probably the most crafty DE Iowa has had. He was the best at reading his keys and staying home in outside contain of the KF era, and the best lineman at batting down passes of the Ferentz era. You can't add up how many yards and or first downs he saved with his uncanny knack to knock down passes. No, he was not an elite pass rusher on the edge, but I don't think we'll see one of those from Iowa this year.
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Nardo finished w/ more tackles than Daniels and Binns last year and he played in 3 fewer games. I think we forget how hobbled Daniels was for a lot of 2011 and Binns was much more effective 2 years ago.
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tackles are not always a sign of good dl. nardo was also the guy that was single blocked. binns had a tackle on him and usually a te or rb that helped or at least chipped him. and even hobbled daniels was double teamed every snap because no team was willing to let him disrupt like he is capable of and no one has anyone that could single block him. binns and daniels got the respect of the other teams blocking to keep them from making tackles. the teams basically said if nardo can beat a 1 on 1 block and make the tackle so be it as long as daniels and binns are causing the trouble they are capable of.
 
Re: Really?

hawkeyebob62 said:
Z Derby is either:

1) Not that good, or not as good as Hamilton, or

2) Paying the price for AJs transfer.

There is also the third possibility of "A little of both"...
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Yeah, because a coach would rather hold a grudge, especially against a brother, than win football games with the best players available. :confused:
 
Re: Really?

DFaceHawkeye said:
Yeah, because a coach would rather hold a grudge, especially against a brother, than win football games with the best players available. :confused:
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Dude, you don't seriously believe I was being serious...do you?

I was trying to "explain" Jon's being "surprised" by Derby's apparent demotion.
 
Hamilton is that good...period. He's a beast and he's only a soph. He also runs much better than Derby. Great hands...when CJ leaves...the cupboard is hardly bare...We have TE's coming out the wazoo.
 
kirby said:
Nardo finished w/ more tackles than Daniels and Binns last year and he played in 3 fewer games. I think we forget how hobbled Daniels was for a lot of 2011 and Binns was much more effective 2 years ago.
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Good for Nardo. It's a lot easier to beat one guy and make a play than it is to beat the double teams Daniels was constantly drawing..and you want a guy who can draw double teams.
 
OatesStache said:
King and Kroul did get pushed around as freshmen. There is plenty of reason for doom and gloom.
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Mitch King and Matt Kroul weren't anywhere near 300 lbs as freshman starters either.

I'll take the growing pains if we get great d line play for seasons to come, we have at least two players that are over or bordering that weight now that will see significant time in the trenches.
 
OatesStache said:
That defense also had Greenway, Hodge, Jovon Johnson, Iwebema, and Mattison as starters, all of whom went on to play in the NFL. This defense does not have that luxury.
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That's easy to say now, but who thought in 2005 that Iwebema and Mattison were going to be NFL players? They were sophomores at the time. I'm not saying that we're stacked with sure-fire NFLers on defense, but I am saying that there are a lot of young guys who are going to get significant playing time who have just as much potential as previous Iowa draft picks.
 
olivecourt said:
That's easy to say now, but who thought in 2005 that Iwebema and Mattison were going to be NFL players? They were sophomores at the time. I'm not saying that we're stacked with sure-fire NFLers on defense, but I am saying that there are a lot of young guys who are going to get significant playing time who have just as much potential as previous Iowa draft picks.
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Iwebema was a big time recruit, and Mattison had the obvious pedigree, and Greenway, Hodge, and Johnson were all seniors who were sure fire NFL players. Better than Alvis coming off knee surgery, and some guy whose name I can't remember.

This defense, as it stands, has one sure fire NFL player, and he's a mid-round pick at best.

And also, to the previous poster, King and Kroul never played over 300lbs.
 
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