JonDMiller
Publisher/Founder
When you are lacking in talent, you wind up playing younger players. Am I missing something here, or am I being put on?
Iowa Has some Talent Issues
- Thread starter JonDMiller
- Start date
When you are lacking in talent, you wind up playing younger players. Am I missing something here, or am I being put on?
BSpringsteen
Well-Known Member
What is this an Abbott and Costello routine?
My point all along has been that yes we are lacking in talent - we agree on that.
It's your youth argument where we diverge.
Our biggest problems are ball throwers and ball catchers. That is NOT a young group. However, it is the group where we are the LEAST talented.
Our being forced to play young players, is an issue, but it is NOT why we lost against Iowa State and NOT why we should have lost to Northern Illinois.
SpiderRico
Well-Known Member
It's not often I say this, but I agree with The Boss on this.
JVB is a 5th year senior that's making youth football mistakes. Talent is the issue, not youth. KMM and Shumpert remind me of Stonehands from Necessary Roughness. They are both juniors, so talent is the issue not youth. Greg Davis has 30 years as an offensive coach and appears to not understand that it's not against the rules to throw a pass more than 20 yards in the air....once again, talent and not youth.
Igothawked
Well-Known Member
Wow, I have to agree with most of what Thunder has said. I'm not quite out on the cliff as far as he is but it's close. The Brad Banks fiasco in 01 was my first major question about KF. The next was how the team played in 07 against Western Mich with a bowl berth on the line. The third came in 08 when he trotted Christensen out there the first four games. The fourth problem was in 09 against OSU not going for the Rose Bowl, and the final straw for me was the way the team absolutely quit at the end of the 2010 season. Its been progressively going downhill since then too.
I am pretty sure I have seen what I needed to see. The staff made some changes for this year and I was excited to see what those changes would bring and thought the program would be energized and would start 5-0 this year. Now with what has gone on these first 2 games I don't think you can look forward with a very positive attitude. Imagine if there is a loss this weekend at home against UNI?
whammer33024
Well-Known Member
i thought iowa's defense played pretty damn well saturday. did you watch the game? our defensive line has played exponentially better than expected so far this season as well. our offensive line played much better against ISU than NIU, so moot point there.
what else ya got?
HomerChampless
Well-Known Member
The jury's still out on the defense. N. Illinois' QB couldn't pass and Jantz couldn't pass with accuracy for more than 15 yards.
You're sayin' Iowa's D line played great against State? In the first quarter?.. Absolutely not. In the second quarter? Thanks to turnovers, we held State scoreless. In the second half, after the coaching staff realized Jantz couldn't accurately pass for more than 15 yards, we defended his run first and his pass second. Matter of fact, except for some press coverage and occasional attempts to stop the pass completion, this defense looked just like a Norm Parker defense.
You're sayin' Iowa's D line played great against State? In the first quarter?.. Absolutely not. In the second quarter? Thanks to turnovers, we held State scoreless. In the second half, after the coaching staff realized Jantz couldn't accurately pass for more than 15 yards, we defended his run first and his pass second. Matter of fact, except for some press coverage and occasional attempts to stop the pass completion, this defense looked just like a Norm Parker defense.
herkytime
Well-Known Member
We will get beat over the top in many games to come when we play against more accurate QBs that can make completions for more than 15 yards. If Jantz was more accurate we would have been burned for huge TD's last week. I remember them trying twice in a row (I believe) to burn us over the top and Jantz had him open both times but just over threw him. If he got him in stride it was going to the house.
SheagleHawk
Well-Known Member
Yeah, those were in coverage against Donatell (who many, oddly enough, thought had a good game). It was pretty eye-opening to see how much faster Clown receivers were than ours.
O
OO44
Guest
It's black and white. Too many pasty faced white boys. We need more street thugs. Ask Allen Pinkett. Notre Dame declined to irrelevance due to this.
Look at Alabama, LSU and the rest of the SEC. The speed difference is HUGE!
Look at Alabama, LSU and the rest of the SEC. The speed difference is HUGE!
BLKNGOLD48
Well-Known Member
Outstanding post.....
storminspank
Justin VanLaere
How was recruiting after Iowa won the Orange Bowl two years ago?
At the risk of sounding like an "apologist", I really don't think the problem was youth, talent, or coaching on Saturday. It was the ability to catch the freakin' football. I just got done re-watching the game, and it was abysmal. The D played great, outside of the first drive, and JVB's stat line looks much better if balls that hit guys in the hands just get caught. If the offense was just average we would be 2-0, and I'd be very confident about 8 to 9 wins this season. As is, if we don't start executing on offense, we might struggle to make a bowl.
No excuse for two weeks in a row of having first and goal inside the 5 and not punching it in.
No excuse for two weeks in a row of having first and goal inside the 5 and not punching it in.
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
Inability to catch the ball.. Isn't that a "talent" issue? WR's should be able to catch. If they can't, then I guess they aren't very good options to throw the ball to?
Tfunkhawkeye
Well-Known Member
I'm afraid this will take a while to get on the other side. It reminds me of UI having great success, graduate DL Roth, Babs, lose Luebke? then have the cupboard so bare that Kroul and King start the next year. By the end of their career they were solid. Not so much early on. So, how it a program with everything going so well ended up relying such young IA kids?
for the record- I never thought UI offense can be counted on more than 24 points. I've seen too many average defenses such as ISU blow them up too many times.
for the record- I never thought UI offense can be counted on more than 24 points. I've seen too many average defenses such as ISU blow them up too many times.
Golfer
Well-Known Member
8 dropped passes. And they did struggle in the red zone at the spring game. I'm on record that we'll be ok this year. Not great, but ok. If this was last year, I wouldn't be able to stand much more, but changes were made, except in the returning players. This year, or next year, will be a lot like watching the 2008 team. I'm hoping this year, but if I have to wait until next year, so be it.
I'm giving it 3 years, which isn't probably enough, but at that point, at least some players recruited to play the new scheme will be playing, and then we'll know.
If I'm wrong in 3 years, I'll admit it, but this is way too soon.
I can possibly see the argument about after 14 years how does the cupboard get so bare, but we suffered an extraordinary amount of attrition, and I'm not sure that can be placed on these coaches. Not like we knowingly recruit bad kids, or recruit to get kids hurt.
This is coming from the guy that joined here after last year's Nebraska game. made quite a splash, was ripped about not being a "true" fan, etc, etc ad infinitum.
We're probably not going to the Rose Bowl this year (which is actually a good thing, as the Rose Bowl is bad for Iowa in many ways), but we need to get to some sort of a bowl game, just for the extra practice.
Sit back and watch the program grow. I predict it will, just cannot tell you when. It should be fairly soon.
I'm giving it 3 years, which isn't probably enough, but at that point, at least some players recruited to play the new scheme will be playing, and then we'll know.
If I'm wrong in 3 years, I'll admit it, but this is way too soon.
I can possibly see the argument about after 14 years how does the cupboard get so bare, but we suffered an extraordinary amount of attrition, and I'm not sure that can be placed on these coaches. Not like we knowingly recruit bad kids, or recruit to get kids hurt.
This is coming from the guy that joined here after last year's Nebraska game. made quite a splash, was ripped about not being a "true" fan, etc, etc ad infinitum.
We're probably not going to the Rose Bowl this year (which is actually a good thing, as the Rose Bowl is bad for Iowa in many ways), but we need to get to some sort of a bowl game, just for the extra practice.
Sit back and watch the program grow. I predict it will, just cannot tell you when. It should be fairly soon.
Inability to catch the ball.. Isn't that a "talent" issue? WR's should be able to catch. If they can't, then I guess they aren't very good options to throw the ball to?
No, I don't think blatant drops have anything to do with talent. It shows lack of focus and execution. Example: CJF had two or three balls hit him right in the hands that would have really changed the complexion of drives, but he dropped them...I don't think anyone would say that he lacks talent.
You could probably argue that either way, but my main point was just that if you catch the simple balls, you probably win last Saturday.
SpiderRico
Well-Known Member
I would say he lacks talent. Sure he has potential based on physical tools, but hes a junior and has shown absolutely nothing to date to indicate he has talent.
iloveyoularrystation
Well-Known Member
I guess I couldn't disagree with you more John. Don't see it as a talent issue and us being ranked whatever in the Big Ten in recruiting has never really mattered before so why should it now. The issue is an execution one. Keenan Davis is talented. James Vandenburg is talented. Is it talent that makes Keenan consistently drop passes along with every other wide-receiver and tight end we've had for the past two years. Is the reason we dropped like 5-6 balls in crunch time on saturday a talent issue? Maybe talent at catching, but other than their catch rating on a video game being lower, is it really talent? Micah Hyde is one of the most talented corners in college football, C.J. is one of the most talented Tight ends in college football. Not a talent issue, its a focus, consistency, and execution problem. Marvin Mcnutt just set a ton of Iowa records last year, he was highly talented, and he dropped passes consistently too. If you look at our offensive woes the last two weeks they look a lot like last seasons offensive woes, all of which focus on us catching passes. James usually has a sketchy 2nd or 3rd quarter and is a beast in the final quarter and the rest of the game and in crunch time our wr's and te's drop passes all day long, they did that last year, they did it again saturday. Catching the ball isn't a talent issue, its a focus issue. Its an execution issue. Thats what our issues are.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
Jon, I love ya. You know we all do. But "talent issues" are vastly overblown. We have the talent. We lack execution in certain areas, and coaching staff needs to reevaluate (as all staffs do) some "loyalty" issues, as well as their own execution.
I think folks, including you, are in panic mode. But it's just not that bad. Will we go 9-3? No. But 8-4 is still possible, as I really believe a few guys will "earn" their way OFF the depth chart (so long Misters Shumpert and Derby), and the improvement "available" from guys like JVB, the OL, CJ-Fed, and even the possible "breakout" we wait for from Mr. Rogers will bring things around.
