Iowa Has some Talent Issues

JonDMiller said:
It's not an excuse to gloss over losses like yesterday. It's factual evidence as to how they are playing so many young players and how 14 years it its the youngest Ferentz tam ever.

I am not saying that the staff is not culpable for the attrition or the recruiting drop off; they are.
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I'm calling ********, and I'm calling it big. This has nothing to do with being young and having everything to do with either not evaluating talent well in high school, not developing talent well once it's here or offering players who have no business being in the B1G.

We held Iowa State to 9 points and created 4 turnovers. We also didn't get sacked once.

Our starting WR are a senior and a sophomore who saw extensive playing time last year.

Our starting TE is a junior.

Our starting QB is a senior.

Sure we're young at RB, but we have already anointed Bullock as the next great KF find with questions like, "are we better off with Bullock than Coker?"

The bottom line is that based on what each of the above four players have SHOWN THUS FAR in their careers, we don't have one skill position player who would SNIFF all B1G honors.

Show me a team that can be successful with the above paragraph.

Now juxtapose that with the play of the very young defensive line.

They've played well haven't they?

Because they are talented. They are young, but they are talented. Talent shows no matter how old you are.

Not having it shows no matter how experienced you are too.
 
Iowa, under Kirk Ferentz, plays most of the game straight up on offense and defense, and that is great when you are better, but kills you when you are worse
 
CAARHawk said:
What we are missing in all of this is KF's total disregard of the JV ranks for bringing in talent during these down cycles. With all this attrition, Iowa had plenty of scholarships to give away.

This being said, KF's system, which is predicated on execution instead of scheme, is well-suited for down cycles. While other teams play a lot more players, Iowa plays very few, as it takes massive reps to come close to his required perfection. So, these growing pain years cycle around as the better teams graduate and there is no one with experience to step in.
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Your point about JUCO players is interesting.
 
So Ferentz is going full metal Lickliter, trying to win B1G games with MAC talent. That's awesome.

Check this out: At the skill positions, we were better in 1999 than we are now. Better receivers, better running backs. QB prolly a wash. But that team beat NIU by more than this team did. So there's that.

This is absolutely unforgivable. I'm ready for the post-Ferentz era if this is how it's gonna be.

Also, anyone waiting for Vandensherman to improve, I've got bad news for ya. Dude's a fifth year senior and he's not only not breaking bad habits, he's doubling down on them. That last interception? That's a pass made by a rookie on his first play from scrimmage, not by a fifth year senior. That's a benchable offense.

Now I know this is just a stupid game and nothing but entertainment when you strip away the veneer, but let's face it...we're all invested in this for various reasons. via our time and money. As such, we should ask ourselves if this return on our investment is acceptable.

One final thought. Although I admire Ferentz from a personal standpoint, and I want him to succeed, I've been suspicious of his decision-making ever since that awful day at Kinnick when he pulled Brad Banks in the Michigan game, and my doubts have never really been allayed. Now, it seems, they are being confirmed.
 
We have two new coordinators, a starting RB who was expected to be third or fourth string a year ago, two new position coaches, and another two coaching at different positions. I suspect this is less a talent issue(although that contributes...this isn't OSU)at most spots than us experencing some transitional bumps and bruises. Some of the problems is getting the QB and receivers all on the same page as the OC. That hasn't happened yet, and yes the receivers lack of confidence may be contributing to them not catching the ball.
 
I posted about this in basketball forum, it's not the talent, it's the attitude. You gotta have Wild Bull Pumfus attitude. You gotta have heart to play and be willing to bodyslam
 
BSpringsteen said:
I'm calling ********, and I'm calling it big. This has nothing to do with being young and having everything to do with either not evaluating talent well in high school, not developing talent well once it's here or offering players who have no business being in the B1G..
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Slow down. The facts are this is the youngest Ferentz era team ever. It just is. However, I am not saying that it's an excuse to gloss over everything, because its not. They have had serious attrition at DL. While that may have had to do with RK being a maniac, he had a boss. The skill position talent at WR is lacking, and that's an area that they have to do better at. I think the OL is going to be OK.

Saying a team is young doesn't have to be code for 'you can't be critical or concerned' when some of the reasons for playing so many young players are controllable.
 
Montanahawk said:
We have two new coordinators, a starting RB who was expected to be third or fourth string a year ago, two new position coaches, and another two coaching at different positions. I suspect this is less a talent issue(although that contributes...this isn't OSU)at most spots than us experencing some transitional bumps and bruises. Some of the problems is getting the QB and receivers all on the same page as the OC. That hasn't happened yet, and yes the receivers lack of confidence may be contributing to them not catching the ball.
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I like this view...and very much hope it to be true !
 
JonDMiller said:
Slow down. The facts are this is the youngest Ferentz era team ever. It just is. However, I am not saying that it's an excuse to gloss over everything, because its not. They have had serious attrition at DL. While that may have had to do with RK being a maniac, he had a boss. The skill position talent at WR is lacking, and that's an area that they have to do better at. I think the OL is going to be OK.

Saying a team is young doesn't have to be code for 'you can't be critical or concerned' when some of the reasons for playing so many young players are controllable.
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You're missing my point entirely.

Our youth isn't our problem. Look at where we are young and how they have performed thus far this year.

Look at where we are experienced and how they have performed this year.

Look at which players have disappointed, and are most responsible for the two lackluster performances and answer whether they are young or not.

If, as most predicted, our offense was putting up 30 a game, but our D was giving up 31, you'd have a point. Since the opposite is happening, I am declaring that youth is not the problem but talent is.
 
BSpringsteen said:
You're missing my point entirely.

Our youth isn't our problem. Look at where we are young and how they have performed thus far this year.

Look at where we are experienced and how they have performed this year.

Look at which players have disappointed, and are most responsible for the two lackluster performances and answer whether they are young or not.

If, as most predicted, our offense was putting up 30 a game, but our D was giving up 31, you'd have a point. Since the opposite is happening, I am declaring that youth is not the problem but talent is.
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ThunderHawk said:
So Ferentz is going full metal Lickliter, trying to win B1G games with MAC talent. That's awesome.

Check this out: At the skill positions, we were better in 1999 than we are now. Better receivers, better running backs. QB prolly a wash. But that team beat NIU by more than this team did. So there's that.

This is absolutely unforgivable. I'm ready for the post-Ferentz era if this is how it's gonna be.

Also, anyone waiting for Vandensherman to improve, I've got bad news for ya. Dude's a fifth year senior and he's not only not breaking bad habits, he's doubling down on them. That last interception? That's a pass made by a rookie on his first play from scrimmage, not by a fifth year senior. That's a benchable offense.

Now I know this is just a stupid game and nothing but entertainment when you strip away the veneer, but let's face it...we're all invested in this for various reasons. via our time and money. As such, we should ask ourselves if this return on our investment is acceptable.

One final thought. Although I admire Ferentz from a personal standpoint, and I want him to succeed, I've been suspicious of his decision-making ever since that awful day at Kinnick when he pulled Brad Banks in the Michigan game, and my doubts have never really been allayed. Now, it seems, they are being confirmed.
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I totally agree with this. I was planning on going to the UNI game this week, but I'll leave that for some other sucker to endure 3 hours of pain in person. This crap is getting so old and I'm done spending my time and money when it could be spent elsewhere. I'll catch it on the tube.
 
atomicblue224 said:
I posted about this in basketball forum, it's not the talent, it's the attitude. You gotta have Wild Bull Pumfus attitude. You gotta have heart to play and be willing to bodyslam
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I think it's both. I've seen talented teams play without a heartbeat and get beaten by lesser opponents time and time again. But KF's 1999 team was just not going to win 8-9+ games no matter how hard they tried. The talent just wasn't there. Why do you think teams like Alabama, LSU, etc. always win the national title in football? Or UNC, Duke, UK, etc. in hoops? Do you think they really play with more passion than everyone else, and that's the only reason those schools win 30+ most every year?
 
I don't think youth or talent is the problem, but the coaching staff. ferentz moved an experienced offensive line coach to the defensive line where he had zero experience, and hired an offensive line coach with zero offensive line coaching experience. I don't think Iowa will be very good since Norm Parker retired. Norm was a great defensive minded coach. Iowa has always been weak offensively under ferentz, but with Parker the defense was pretty good. Great coaches like Parker don't come around very often. Look at all the problems some of the power teams have when they lose their coaches, and Iowa will never be able to recruit the same as a lot of the elite teams in football unless they cheat.
 
BSpringsteen said:
You're missing my point entirely.

Our youth isn't our problem. Look at where we are young and how they have performed thus far this year.

Look at where we are experienced and how they have performed this year.

Look at which players have disappointed, and are most responsible for the two lackluster performances and answer whether they are young or not.

If, as most predicted, our offense was putting up 30 a game, but our D was giving up 31, you'd have a point. Since the opposite is happening, I am declaring that youth is not the problem but talent is.
Click to expand...

Oh. Well in that case I should have titled this post "Iowa Has Some Talent Issues"
 
BSpringsteen said:
You're missing my point entirely.

Our youth isn't our problem. Look at where we are young and how they have performed thus far this year.

Look at where we are experienced and how they have performed this year.

Look at which players have disappointed, and are most responsible for the two lackluster performances and answer whether they are young or not.

If, as most predicted, our offense was putting up 30 a game, but our D was giving up 31, you'd have a point. Since the opposite is happening, I am declaring that youth is not the problem but talent is.
Click to expand...

I'll add that the title of the thread suggests what I am saying, but the contenxt of your content suggests that you equate experience with talent, and youth with a lack of it. I'm suggesting that the play on the field means that the defenses case does not hold water. (Cue My Cousin Vinny monologue)
 
After last saturday, I think the last place the blame should be is on the players and their talent levels. Iowa has a lot of good players, and their starting tight end is a monster.
 
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