Iowa Football Investigation Discussion

[kicker22]

At this point, we know that athletes were concerned that there was institutional racial bias in the program. They are happy with the actions that the university is taking/has taken and it is now time to heal and continue forward. Everything else is unnecessary. The "stand up and fight" is occurring. The persons adversely affected by the bias have spoken and policy is being enacted to ensure future expectations are met. Confusing racism and a cultural bias is dangerous. While both must be addressed, one is intentional, the other must be corrected through education and thoughtfulness. To turn all cultural bias into criminal intent is dangerous. Some might call it a witch hunt or an agenda. Others might call it cancel culture. The affected have spoken and appear to be satisfied with the changes. If they are, shouldnt you be?

True, but if the one is being corrected because it was thought to have been swept under the rug and resurfaced, then there is a problem. I'm not saying that did or didn't happen, as I'll wait to hear the results of the investigation. However, knowing that KF, Barta, and staff knew about this 18 months ago, and being where we are now, is not a good feeling or look for the university.

 

[ohhawk]

Not to be forgotten in all this ...........the effect of The Bill Belichick School of Learning on Kirk (30+ year relationship) as it relates to discipline, order, preparation, compliance to the system, etc. Not to confuse this with some clear racial issues but I see it as part of the story and a part of Kirk that could explain some things.

Even Belichick has lightened up some in recent years according to some players. Seems like Kirk is headed down that path as well if given the opportunity. Time to consult Bill again

 

[VAHawkFan]

What is dangerous is assuming current players public response is accurate. It's abuse. Think Patty Hearst. Learn human behavior. How many times did you say..... Glad he s gone to transfers. Did you assume the higher black numbers were...blacks not in tune with the system?

Is it possible they are accurate?

 

[Adam]

No, his system was abusive and archaic and needs to go. If you can't see the connection, that's on you. If you can't see the evil in it it's on you. This isn't a sensitivity issue. It was decided, calloused, and abusive. It was a holdover from Jim Crow Law's only it was the Iowa Way Law. He needs to go. Iowa will be a traveling circus on the road and a zoo at home. If you want to have any chance of getting younger people involved in being a college football fan he needs to go.

While I vehemently disagree with you over the reasoning of your position. I agree in summation that a clean sweep needs to happen for Iowa to regain respectability, but that starts at the top and extends beyond the football program. Our athletic department has been on a crash course with doom for a decade now. President, AD, entire Athletic department administration and football staff. Wipe the board and try to start fresh. Use this scandal as grounds for not having to pay severance.

 

[kicker22]

Hypothetically, IF it is determined that the football program clean house, I would think that the decision would come from a higher up than Barta. Barta directly oversees Kirk and the program and in my opinion would/should also be held accountable if changes at the top are warranted. I would then be curious as to see how things would play out in terms of the search to fill both positions and the time frame it would take to do so.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Hypothetically, IF it is determined that the football program clean house, I would think that the decision would come from a higher up than Barta. Barta directly oversees Kirk and the program and in my opinion would/should also be held accountable if changes at the top are warranted. I would then be curious as to see how things would play out in terms of the search to fill both positions and the time frame it would take to do so.

Of course, and Barta would be gone, too. I predicted in the other thread that Kirk has coached his last game and this season being cancelled would probably be a good reset for Iowa. I think the odds of hitting on another legendary coach on par with Fry and Ferentz is exceedingly unlikely. Kirk is leaving a solid cupboard. If the coach is decent, he could easily have a few really good years and then there will be massive temptation to leave for a real program or The League. In all honesty, the only thing I have confidence in is the school botching the transition of power and Iowa falling down to laughing stock levels within 5 or 6 years and staying there for a prolonged period.

 

[HuckFinn]

I would guess a major house cleaning would begin with Bruce H. Then he would need to get his governing board to support that move. Or, the president could first give KF and GB the option to resign. Of course, if KF goes, so does his entire staff. If GB goes and KF is retained, the new AD may or may not retain KF for very long. In short, it would be a mess of almost unimaginable disruption. No. I am not saying it should or should not be done. But we better go all in with our eyes wide open.

 

[kicker22]

Of course, and Barta would be gone, too. I predicted in the other thread that Kirk has coached his last game and this season being cancelled would probably be a good reset for Iowa. I think the odds of hitting on another legendary coach on par with Fry and Ferentz is exceedingly unlikely. Kirk is leaving a solid cupboard. If the coach is decent, he could easily have a few really good years and then there will be massive temptation to leave for a real program or The League. In all honesty, the only thing I have confidence in is the school botching the transition of power and Iowa falling down to laughing stock levels within 5 or 6 years and staying there for a prolonged period.

I agree with you about the probability that things get botched. I think at this point in time Phil Parker would be the only one I'd be comfortable hiring from within, but I'm not sure I'm sold on him as he's been associated with the Iowa program so long that I'm not sure he'd have the connections to bring in the fresh blood needed to move forward on his own.

Player retention of current and existing recruits would be huge. We've got a great deal of talent, if we could maintain it for the first few years to ease the transition of the new coach and they'd be able to benefit from recent recruiting history and on field success we could possibly avoid bottoming out and losing all momentum going forward.

 

[proudhawkfan21]

What is dangerous is assuming current players public response is accurate. It's abuse. Think Patty Hearst. Learn human behavior. How many times did you say..... Glad he s gone to transfers. Did you assume the higher black numbers were...blacks not in tune with the system?

What I see is the transfers were not first string. Call it like it is. Where are the first stringers that transfered. Where? You can't conveniently look past that. Yes, if you don't like the team rules, you have the right to leave. Doyle is a different issue. But, I think a coach has a right to have a dress code. Should be fair for all. We were all white and we had to have our hair cut, no facial hair, no jewelry. Its not cultural. It's societal. So blame society, which everyone is now doing. All of America needs to look in the mirror. But 90% of America can't be fired. America is about second chances. Time to practice what everyone preaches for all. Yourself included.

 

[proudhawkfan21]

Weak.

You are weak. You bitch about Hawkeye athletics all the time. Must be miserable to live with you. Insert your sob story here. Everyone has one Karen. Support your team. Are you leaving the United States any time soon? Oh, sticking around hoping it changes? Not convenient for you to leave it? Isn't that lazy? Are you guilty of complacency and white privilege. What are you doing? You are pointing fingers, whining, pouting, pulling people down to your level. Why are YOU the negative in nearly everyone's posts? You live there. You enjoy it Karen.

Change starts with the man in the mirror. That finger that you point...creates four opportunities pointing back at you to challenge yourself. Whining on a message board about "your team." Be the change. Go do something about it. I am fine with what is being done as are the majority of the black players in and around the program. No one is perfect, I believe KF has a good heart and genuinely cares about his players.

 

[proudhawkfan21]

Newsflash, KF isn't going anywhere.

 

[proudhawkfan21]

True, but if the one is being corrected because it was thought to have been swept under the rug and resurfaced, then there is a problem. I'm not saying that did or didn't happen, as I'll wait to hear the results of the investigation. However, knowing that KF, Barta, and staff knew about this 18 months ago, and being where we are now, is not a good feeling or look for the university.

I just don't think 18 months ago was the time to dive on the grenade. Make some positive changes, which they did. They can demonstrate that changes were enacted. What part of American society is untouched by racism? Its terrible. Bottom line is that you can't police people's hearts or thoughts. Deeds, yes. Still, those folks try to live in the grey areas. Doyle. Imply what you know you can't say. He's gone. Former and current players are happy about it. I think players not named disgruntled second teamer or DJK or Mrs. Akrum (my other son didn't GET to go to UIowa) are just that disgruntled.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Newsflash, KF isn't going anywhere.

I don't know, bruh. The Woke Mob is pretty powerful. It doesn't matter if KF isn't racist. That isn't the standard anymore.

 

[Motigerhawk]

What I see is the transfers were not first string. Call it like it is. Where are the first stringers that transfered. Where? You can't conveniently look past that. Yes, if you don't like the team rules, you have the right to leave. Doyle is a different issue. But, I think a coach has a right to have a dress code. Should be fair for all. We were all white and we had to have our hair cut, no facial hair, no jewelry. Its not cultural. It's societal. So blame society, which everyone is now doing. All of America needs to look in the mirror. But 90% of America can't be fired. America is about second chances. Time to practice what everyone preaches for all. Yourself included.

Im not sure that matters when so many transferred. Maybe the 1st string guys stuck it out because they were 1st string (i.e.Daniels, who started this). The transfer rate for black athletes is horrible. Which makes me think that if a black player couldnt start they were treated differently in order to force them to leave. Maybe Im off base there, but that is the take I get from this right now.
And what about all the discussions on here over the years about white guys starting over more talented black players? Why is that? Was it because the white guys conformed to "the system" and the black guys struggled conforming to it? Which in turn caused more talented players that were not 1st string to transfer?

I am waiting patiently for the results of the investigation. I hope it is truthful and sheds light on what really happened.

 

[proudhawkfan21]

I don't know, bruh. The Woke Mob is pretty powerful. It doesn't matter if KF isn't racist. That isn't the standard anymore.

I could be wrong, but I think long-standing good reputation has to stand for something

 

[proudhawkfan21]

Im not sure that matters when so many transferred. Maybe the 1st string guys stuck it out because they were 1st string (i.e.Daniels, who started this). The transfer rate for black athletes is horrible. Which makes me think that if a black player couldnt start they were treated differently in order to force them to leave. Maybe Im off base there, but that is the take I get from this right now.
And what about all the discussions on here over the years about white guys starting over more talented black players? Why is that? Was it because the white guys conformed to "the system" and the black guys struggled conforming to it? Which in turn caused more talented players that were not 1st string to transfer?

I am waiting patiently for the results of the investigation. I hope it is truthful and sheds light on what really happened.

No one said life has to be fair. Even in race. You cant claim racism in who starts or who doesn't start. This isnt the California Penal League Vaughn. We wear caps and sleeves at this level son, understood? KF is here to win, not keep black players down. Not even a question. I am perplexed by Daniels. Look at his "thank you message" when he declared. Ok. So, he did it for draft purposes? Isn't that dishonest? Out for himself, but thats OK? Look. The program is like much of America. White America has certain expectations for what it considers to be appropriate or professional or acceptable dress. It doesnt always align with black America. It doesnt make it racist to ask that people act according to certain rules for $100,000+ of free education. I feel the appropriate steps are being taken. This shouldn't turn into a dumpster fire. Seriously, who are we going to get next that is better morally or ethically..competitive college football....

 

[Motigerhawk]

I could be wrong, but I think long-standing good reputation has to stand for something

You are not wrong. He is a good man. But we only see the surface. We do not work with him. There are plenty of people throughout history we thought were good men, but it turns out they had a side that was not exposed and not good.

KF does a brilliant job bringing money to the University and spending his own to support it, as well as many other things I imagine.

But what has come to light is just flat out wrong. Good men make bad decisions and do bad things and suffer the negative consequences all the time.

 

[proudhawkfan21]

You are not wrong. He is a good man. But we only see the surface. We do not work with him. There are plenty of people throughout history we thought were good men, but it turns out they had a side that was not exposed and not good.

KF does a brilliant job bringing money to the University and spending his own to support it, as well as many other things I imagine.

But what has come to light is just flat out wrong. Good men make bad decisions and do bad things and suffer the negative consequences all the time.

My best friend has a boy on the team. KF is genuine. Considerate. Welcoming. He stands for everything you see on paper. Im not saying he hasn't made mistakes. Leadership is difficult. The POTUS...i mean....he's still in the office. I won't get political but PUH-LEASE! So, there is at least 50% of America, 49% anyway that hold his view of America in high regard. Scary! But, KF is not Trump. The good has far outweighed the bad. He deserves opportunity to fix issues.

 

[Motigerhawk]

No one said life has to be fair. Even in race. You cant claim racism in who starts or who doesn't start. This isnt the California Penal League Vaughn. We wear caps and sleeves at this level son, understood? KF is here to win, not keep black players down. Not even a question. I am perplexed by Daniels. Look at his "thank you message" when he declared. Ok. So, he did it for draft purposes? Isn't that dishonest? Out for himself, but thats OK? Look. The program is like much of America. White America has certain expectations for what it considers to be appropriate or professional or acceptable dress. It doesnt always align with black America. It doesnt make it racist to ask that people act according to certain rules for $100,000+ of free education. I feel the appropriate steps are being taken. This shouldn't turn into a dumpster fire. Seriously, who are we going to get next that is better morally or ethically..competitive college football....

I think where we differ is on what is and what isnt acceptable in todays climate. This is not bear bryant and Texas A&M. This is 2020 and it is a whole different world as you know.
I get the whole making better men to succeed in life. But there is a culture that is different than the culture at Iowa. And that culture should not be "beaten" (for a lack of a better word) out of these young men. Should it be tempered? Should a level of professionalism be taught? Absolutely, but in a positive manner.

The days of abusing players into your culture are over. And Im afraid some of these players suffered more than we will ever know and it probably made for a worse society for us all. And Im not talking just Iowa football. I think this is a societal issue. Thus the distrust of white people by black people.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Im not sure that matters when so many transferred. Maybe the 1st string guys stuck it out because they were 1st string (i.e.Daniels, who started this). The transfer rate for black athletes is horrible. Which makes me think that if a black player couldnt start they were treated differently in order to force them to leave. Maybe Im off base there, but that is the take I get from this right now.
And what about all the discussions on here over the years about white guys starting over more talented black players? Why is that? Was it because the white guys conformed to "the system" and the black guys struggled conforming to it? Which in turn caused more talented players that were not 1st string to transfer?

I am waiting patiently for the results of the investigation. I hope it is truthful and sheds light on what really happened.

We've known for years that Kirk starts seniors over underclassmen unless necessity dictates otherwise. That is just who he is. He is a system guy. Hell, Shonn Greene found the dog house for a fumble. Kirk loves ball security. He also loves knowledge on the o-line and defense. If you're a little bit better than a guy two years older but you miss a read and get the QB's head ripped off, that is a problem. If you're a DB and try to jump a route when it was a coverage where you didn't have help over the top, it's a problem. These Iowa teams are coached incredibly well. You'll see the other team line up in an illegal formation and the D will be playing 11 on 10 because these guys are so well coached they know not to cover the illegal guy. It takes time to learn that style of football and just because you're a better athlete doesn't necessarily translate into you immediately being the starter at Iowa. I think this is hard for some kids to grasp.

Unfortunately, our society has reached a point where people have to juxtapose a narrative over something like this and it has been used so much, it is hard to tell whether it is true or false.

It would be nice if our gracious site host went player by player on transfers out and gave us depth chart ahead of them, where they ended up, how they did there and other circumstances surrounding transfer (e.g., tidbits around guys like Coker or Cleveland). I think looking at raw numbers doesn't tell the whole story.