Interesting

[HawkForce]

The great ambassador line gets thrown around a lot, and while accurate, is highly symbolic of why Iowa football is never going to be much better than it is right now. This isn't a kids' flag football team where they don't keep score--wins and losses do matter, and there are a lot of people who could come in, smile for the cameras, and win 7 games a year for less than 4 million per.

I like KF and think he's a good coach. I'd be fine with Iowa paying him 10 million a year if he was achieving Top 20 results, but that clearly isn't happening. Ultimately, KF should be judged like every other coach in the profession--by his win/loss record. The fact that people continually bring up his great personality seems to be a defense unique to Iowa fans--not sure that any other big time program uses that line of reasoning.

Well personally I think it is unique to Iowan's...I have lived/visited many other places and let me tell you...this world/country is full of people with steaming dung piles for personalities...and every time I come back to "lil ole Iowa" I realize how lucky I am to live in a place like this where many people are still genuine and caring.

As far as I'm concerned you can go support a team like OSU or Alabama if you want titles year in and year out.

Iowa is one bad hire away from the basement of the NCAA...have you ever read the articles Jon has written about recruiting at Iowa and the disadvantages? Kirk has done a pretty dang admirable job here at Iowa...I want a BIG title as much as anyone, but it's not the only indicator of success. And I think they're going to get one in the next 4 years.

You know if the "lil ole Iowa" hating crowd eventually gets their way and Kirk is shown the door ala Tom Davis so we can go to the "next level"....We deserve to watch the football program take a dive into the football equal of "Lickliter era"

Some people never learn.

 

[AFAcademyHawk]

Wisconsin's population is twice as large of Iowa's, plus they don't have to compete with another in-state BCS school. The Milwaukee metropolitan area is around four times as large as Des Moines', and Madison is comparable in size to DM. I don't really understand how Iowa and Wisconsin are on equal footing.

And the only reason we're having this discussion (not to say it's irrelevant) is because of the 2010 season. If that team goes 10-2 or better, than KF buys himself a few 7-5 seasons. 8-5 with that much talent was pitiful.

 

[JHHawk]

Iowa gets a couple of recruits annually,at most,from Iowa.
Wisconsin produces many,many more football recruits.
Wisconsin has 8 times the minority athletes that Iowa does..who do play college fb and bb at a much higher rate than non-minority athletes.
Iowa and Wisky are not similar in home state recruiting advantages.

Simply paying a coach more money does not guarantee success.
We have a guy in charge who has figured out the formula for winning at Iowa,and that is worth whatever it takes.
Whenever recruits talk about KF ,they are almost in awe. The guy is super-impressive in the living room or his office meetings. There is no way to guarantee that from the next guy we hire.
Iowa was 6-1 at Kinnick last year. Fans who attended those 6 wins were not unhappy when they left the stadium. Saying that they are like Cub fans is not correct. Cubs have never gone 70-11 in Wrigley Field,which is the similar winning percentage. Iowa fans are loyal,tho,so they will attend Iowa games thru thick,and thin...I know,because I was one of the 50k who always showed up in the losing years before Hayden.

I compare the 19 non-winning seasons to our parents who went thru the depression...those who never went thru it will never understand the underlying fear of those who did of having it return someday. I appreciate that 6-1 season at Kinnick. I appreciate beating top 10 teams like Michigan,MSU,PSU ect. That was only a dream in those days....and now we do it routinely.

 

[HeavenHasBeer]

Wisconsin's population is twice as large of Iowa's, plus they don't have to compete with another in-state BCS school. The Milwaukee metropolitan area is around four times as large as Des Moines', and Madison is comparable in size to DM. I don't really understand how Iowa and Wisconsin are on equal footing.And the only reason we're having this discussion (not to say it's irrelevant) is because of the 2010 season. If that team goes 10-2 or better, than KF buys himself a few 7-5 seasons. 8-5 with that much talent was pitiful.

Yes this.

 

[olivecourt]

Iowa offered KF a raise and he accepted it. The football program still makes money as does the athletic department as a whole. I just don't see the big issue here.

 

[PatrickAdamovicz]

I'm not a big Ferentz guy. I think he failed to capitalize on the success's earlier in his tenure, which if he had might have parlayed Iowa into a higher level nationally. Iowa can get to the "elite" level, much like Nebraska did, or how Kansas did in basketball, but it takes at least a national title to get there or appearance. It can be done at Iowa. I'll give credit to Ferentz, he got Iowa close in 2002 and 2009.

Nebraska and Kansas are not great "location's", which is the excuse people use for Iowa, yet they became national powers in football and basketball. Iowa could have got there imo. And by the way, on the ability to get recruits, Hayden Fry was landing damn good recruits throughout the 80's and early 90's. Iowa has great facilities and a great stadium and a great college atmosphere. Iowa has landed good recruits before Ferentz and they will land good recruits after Ferentz.

 

[Golfer]

I'm not clear that the athletic department reports a profit.

 

[DP5555]

Guys I hate to say it because I'm a huge Hawkeye fan like most of you, but the bottom line is we have a pretty ridiculous fanbase. I always stuck up for our fanbase... and then I experienced the last 1-2 years. I can't stick up for our fanbase anymore. We have some fans that are absolutely ludicrous. No matter what state the program is in they will find something to complain about.

Now I'm sure we aren't the only fanbase that is like this, but being a Hawkeye fan and regular message board visitor it's become painfully obvious to me that we have our fair share of totally unreasonable fans. I think our fans are incredibly passionate about Hawkeye football, but sometimes that passion takes over their mind and impacts their ability to think clearly. I used to think that percentage of fans was so small that it was ridiculous to let them change my opinion of our entire fanbase. Lately, it seems like that percentage is quite a bit bigger than I originally thought. Honestly, it's a bit disappointing to me but I'm a positive person by nature so it certainly isn't going to change my view towards the Hawks. It's just disappointing that we seem to have so many Hawk fans that represent our team in such a miserable manner.

*I will add that I do realize it isn't accurate to judge our entire fanbase off of individuals who frequent these boards. Obviously, in many cases these message boards bring out the worst of the worst and I understand that.

 

[BILLBUCKNER]

What concerns me is that we are in what? year 13 or so of Ferentz's tenure here. I would expect that the program would be on much more solid footing in regards to our record. I wish that games with the likes of NW and ISU would be a forgone conclusion that we would win them. Save our struggles for the OSUs, and Michigans of the conference.

Its been stated here that our old line coach ran off alot of dline talent here because of his coaching 'style'. The results had not been stellar there either when you consider the NFL talent that was there. Why didn't Ferentz show him the door sooner instead of letting him land softly at a conference foe?

On the other hand you have to look at what KF has accomplished and it has been one of the most successful tenures of any Iowa coach.

The market has determined KFs salary. If we wanted to keep him,it is what it is.

 

[HawkeyePT]

The most frustrating thing about Iowa football right now is the number of players we put in the pros and the lack of results in the win column. There is no question our coaches have done an excellent job of developing talent, its the lack of wins when we have the talent that has soared some of the fan base. Therefore, bringing the age old salary question in to debate. As a hawk fan I certainly don't want to begin feeling like a cub's fan. Meaning, even if the product sucks the stadium is still packed to the brim and every year your waiting for next year.

Agree. I think we wouldn't be having this conversation if we didn't have the bad losses to NW, Minn., etc. over the years.

 

[MissouriHerk]

He ought to be getting paid about what Gary Pinkel at Mizzou makes. Look at the results there the past 6 years 4 or 5 10 win seasons in that span. First thing people will say is, well, Mizzou has StL to recruit from and KC. I can say that Mizzou has historically done a very poor job or in state recruiting and fan enthusiasm and program prestige are below Iowa, and markedly so. And noone can say program prestige doesn't count, if you want to make the flip argument at the same time about recruiting to Lincoln, NE. Not that Iowa has tremendous prestige as a program, but as Rittenberg says we have a good tradition.

I have no prob paying Ferentz more than his pure win loss record shows due to some inherent disadvantages when compared to the Ohio States and Penn States and Texas', but there are other really good coaches out there making a million or more less than KF (still very good salaries) with no more advantages than him having similar or even better success on the field.

 

[JugadorHawk]

One thing I think we all can agree on is Kirk has an excellent agent.

 

[BSpringsteen]

The quotes out of Iowa City show a CLEARLY changed Ferentz.

I think KF would consider a 7-5 year a success if he also put his entire senior class in NFL camps, and kept the team out of trouble.

I think he has admitted defeat in some of his core principals, and chief among them, is that there are items in the program more important than W-L. There are not.

He's a classy enough guy, but it's not like our team stays out of trouble. Kirk knows this year is going to be rough, and I firmly believe that he has to win 14 REGULAR season games in the next two years to keep his job.

 

[SpiderRico]

My opinion of KF is that he is a great teacher, a great leader, but only a so-so game day coach.

It is obvious that KF is a great teacher by the number of NFL players that we produce from recruiting classes that consistently rank in the range of 30-50. If memory serves me right, I think we have the 5th or 6th most players on NFL rosters right now. That is unreal and is a real testament to both KF and his assistants as teachers of the game.

I also think he is a great leader as evidenced by how he runs his "organization", the respect that coaches have for him....both those that work for him and other peers in his profession and the fact that players that have played for him have nothing but admiration and respect for him. He has all the traits you expect out of a great leader.

However, the one place I believe he falls short in is his gameday coaching. We may not bring in NFL talent, but we certainly CREATE NFL talent. With that talent in place year after year, we should be producing more 9-10 win seasons and fewer 7-8 win seasons.

I detailed in another post the winning % of KF and our "peer" schools (Wisconsin, Penn State, Nebraska, Michigan State and Michigan) against teams with 0-3 wins, 4-7 wins and 8+ wins. Our wins against teams that finished the year with 8+ wins is best among this group and I believe is a direct reflection of the NFL talent we are producing. However, with the exception of Michigan State (the poster child for disappointment) we have the worst record against teams that finish the year between 4-7 wins. When you see how we send player after player into the NFL year after year and the results we have against upper level teams (winning % against teams with 8+ wins), then it becomes obvious pretty quick that we don't have a talent problem, we have a gameday coaching problem. Therefore, to change from a 7-8 win team to a 9, 10, 11 win team will require us to be able to win those games against teams in the 4-7 win range. That is where timely aggressiveness and the willingness to take some chances comes into play. We solve the "playing down to our opponent" issue, and all of a sudden, things become MUCH more successful.

I believe that KF is trying to rectify this by the personnel he's put into place and the acknowledgement that changes needed to be made. I applaud these moves and look forward to seeing how these changes will translate to on-field results.

 

[HawkForce]

The quotes out of Iowa City show a CLEARLY changed Ferentz.I think KF would consider a 7-5 year a success if he also put his entire senior class in NFL camps, and kept the team out of trouble. I think he has admitted defeat in some of his core principals, and chief among them, is that there are items in the program more important than W-L. There are not.He's a classy enough guy, but it's not like our team stays out of trouble. Kirk knows this year is going to be rough, and I firmly believe that he has to win 14 REGULAR season games in the next two years to keep his job.

I can see it now....if Ferentz were to get fired down the road here it will fracture the fan base...we would be headed for Lickliter 2.0, maybe our fanbase will learn a lesson.

 

[EyeAmHawk]

What bugs me the most is that Ferentz can't motivate his team to perform at the same level as a favorite and an underdog. He's got the reputation for performing well as the underdog, but not as the favorite. I think this is a mindset issue with the coaching staff. They need to find better ways of motivating teams, hopefully this reshaping of the staff will allow for more consistent play week in and week out. You can only blame player "execution" so many times before the coaching seat heats up.

Though this bothers me, I can't think of another coach I'd rather have at Iowa.

 

[PJHawk]

Here's my opinion...It was not that many moons ago that when OSU, PSU, or Michigan came to town Iowa didn't have a prayer of even being competitive...the fact that we get upset when we lose to schools like that is mind boggling and incredible.

It sure as hell was many moons ago and what's mind boggling is that people like you still are wrapped up in that dynamic. Miller has written and commented extensively on this and he's right. That "no prayer" era of Iowa football you reference was before Hayden Fry so you are talking 35 years ago - that's ancient history in the terms of college athletics.

 

[deanvogs]

I can see it now....if Ferentz were to get fired down the road here it will fracture the fan base...we would be headed for Lickliter 2.0, maybe our fanbase will learn a lesson.

Absolutely correct, firing KF would be a disaster of epic proportions.....You would alienate 1/2 the male fan base, and 95% of the female fan base (all the women Hawk fans I know, love the guy).

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

Bingo.

I have mucho respect for the op as he is consumate voice of reason on HN. I don't think he was trying to stir the pot and I know he is a huge Hawkeye fan.

That being said this salary argument is dumn. CEO's of large corporations get paid tons of money. We made a BIG investment after a very good stretch...and it hasn't worked out perfectly. Folks, I guarantee you the NFL sees his ability to develop kids and they come calling every-single-year. Barta knew this and locked up a stable, solid coach that is highly respected in his field.

It's a LOT of money, I get that and understand why people with directly compare a very high salary to a certain expected level of success....but the real world doesn't work that way all the time. I work in the financial industry and there is a bunch of people who have a bunch less success that KF, and make a LOT more money than he. Don't compare him to other coaches, he earned his current salary many years ago by surprising us all and doing a whole lot....without a load of talent.

Again, GOLFER is one of the good guys on this board so this is not aimed at him, just the people that constantly bring up the salary issue.

And as for the "national perspective"....for starters, anyone that thinks our last decade was a huge shortcoming, they either are fan of the perennial top 15 programs, or they are clueless on the challenges of the the upper middle echelon on college football...

see signature....

 

[deanvogs]

Bingo.

I have mucho respect for the op as he is consumate voice of reason on HN. I don't think he was trying to stir the pot and I know he is a huge Hawkeye fan.

That being said this salary argument is dumn. CEO's of large corporations get paid tons of money. We made a BIG investment after a very good stretch...and it hasn't worked out perfectly. Folks, I guarantee you the NFL sees his ability to develop kids and they come calling every-single-year. Barta knew this and locked up a stable, solid coach that is highly respected in his field.

It's a LOT of money, I get that and understand why people with directly compare a very high salary to a certain expected level of success....but the real world doesn't work that way all the time. I work in the financial industry and there is a bunch of people who have a bunch less success that KF, and make a LOT more money than he. Don't compare him to other coaches, he earned his current salary many years ago by surprising us all and doing a whole lot....without a load of talent.

Again, GOLFER is one of the good guys on this board so this is not aimed at him, just the people that constantly bring up the salary issue.

And as for the "national perspective"....for starters, anyone that thinks our last decade was a huge shortcoming, they either are fan of the perennial top 15 programs, or they are clueless on the challenges of the the upper middle echelon on college football...

see signature....

I agree on all counts.

I would also add if we fired KF and made a so/so hire (ala Alford), meaning he did some thing rights, but lots of things wrong, we would be in trouble. If we made a Lick type of hire, this program would be right where it was 35 years ago. If we make a home run hire, we get the similar results we had with Hayden and KF.

Iowa is never gonna be Ohio St. and Michigan, it ain't gonna happen folks. We get close twice every decade, we did under Hayden and under KF. Maybe if we could get the breaks in those good years, we win a NC sometime, but that is a very big maybe. We have too many inherit disadvantages here in Iowa with the small recruiting base, and having another D1 school in state as well.