O
OatesStache
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If it's going to be considered, I hope your AD is 100% sure he has a better replacement locked and loaded.
Interesting
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If it's going to be considered, I hope your AD is 100% sure he has a better replacement locked and loaded.
CPHAWK82
Well-Known Member
People are already disappointed in our recruiting classes as it is. Iowa would more than likely have to take a chance on a up and coming coach like Michigan did. Difference is, the Michigan brand is flooding Michigan with top notch recruits and making Hoke look really good. The recruits Iowa does get is because of Ferentz and not necessarily the Iowa brand. All of Iowa's recruiting disadvantages could really come to a head without our current coaching staff.
whammer33024
Well-Known Member
NAILED IT
racerhawk
Well-Known Member
I tend to agree with you.
Having said that, Dane County has 500k, and the city and university are beautiful. Wisconsin, I believe, has twice the population of Iowa, and Madison is 150 miles from Chicago.
SpiderRico
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone in this thread is calling for KF to be fired at all.
The OP posted a comment that a (supposed) outside observer had of the Iowa program over the last 13 years and then Rittenberg brought up some valid points....both positive (Ferentz gets players to the NFL, he does a good job given some inherent disadvantages, NFL people love him, etc) and negative (Wisconsin is leapfrogging us, 7-8 wins isn't cutting it given the talent we send to the NFL each year, etc).
I'm not sure why some people automatically jump to the conclusion that people want Ferentz fired or replaced or to move on simply because we may have questions as to why the record has been what it's been when we crank out NFL caliber players each year.
As I posted earlier, if Iowa currently is in the Top 5/Top 10 of players currently on NFL rosters, shouldn't it stand to reason that we should be enjoying more 9, 10, 11 win seasons? If player development isn't an issue (and it isn't given our recruiting class rankings each year when compared to the number of players drafted) then I think it only makes sense to question where the issue lies. And as I posted, I think the issue has always been Ferentz's abilities as a game day coach. From Sunday thru Friday, he's as good as there is in the game. But come Saturday, there's enough head-scratchers happening that eventually causes us to have the 2nd worst record among our "peers" (Wisconsin, MSU, Mich, PSU and Neb) in games against teams that finish the year with 4-7 wins. Had we been able to win at an 82% - 85% rate like these schools, coupled with our success against good teams (8+ wins), then we'd be at the top of this group in terms of total wins from 2001-2011.
The OP posted a comment that a (supposed) outside observer had of the Iowa program over the last 13 years and then Rittenberg brought up some valid points....both positive (Ferentz gets players to the NFL, he does a good job given some inherent disadvantages, NFL people love him, etc) and negative (Wisconsin is leapfrogging us, 7-8 wins isn't cutting it given the talent we send to the NFL each year, etc).
I'm not sure why some people automatically jump to the conclusion that people want Ferentz fired or replaced or to move on simply because we may have questions as to why the record has been what it's been when we crank out NFL caliber players each year.
As I posted earlier, if Iowa currently is in the Top 5/Top 10 of players currently on NFL rosters, shouldn't it stand to reason that we should be enjoying more 9, 10, 11 win seasons? If player development isn't an issue (and it isn't given our recruiting class rankings each year when compared to the number of players drafted) then I think it only makes sense to question where the issue lies. And as I posted, I think the issue has always been Ferentz's abilities as a game day coach. From Sunday thru Friday, he's as good as there is in the game. But come Saturday, there's enough head-scratchers happening that eventually causes us to have the 2nd worst record among our "peers" (Wisconsin, MSU, Mich, PSU and Neb) in games against teams that finish the year with 4-7 wins. Had we been able to win at an 82% - 85% rate like these schools, coupled with our success against good teams (8+ wins), then we'd be at the top of this group in terms of total wins from 2001-2011.
As far as Wisconsin is concerned, please name the other Division I schools in the state that they share the talent pool with. Wisconsin and Minnesota are not Iowa. Both are more populous, urban states with no other Division I program to worry about when it comes to recruiting.
As far as a regression to Lickliter is concerned, a mistake in a football coach hire is far more devastating than the wrong basketball hire. After 3-4 years of a coaching disaster, it will take at least that long and probably longer to recover assuming the right hire is made the next time around.
Finally, so what if we are over paying over the last 2-3 years, where has the harm been? Has the crew team been short changed, did the band have to stay at Holiday Inn Express in Phoenix? This Department, in large measure due to Kirk Ferent'z tenure is flush in cash and able to support all its sports teams, most of which generate next to nothing in revenue.
All this nonsense about the salary of Coach Ferentz is a red herring. If we were dropping sports, maybe there would be room for concern. Under the circumstances I am far more comfortable overpaying slightly than injecting a lower priced coach in the hopes we can sustain or improve things. I am far from a major contributor, but I have been buying tickets and donating a somewhat generous sum for years now. I have not one regret that a portion of my money is being used to pay the salary of Kirk Ferentz. I may wish there was less spending in some areas of the Department, but the salary of the football coach is no where near the top of that list.
As far as a regression to Lickliter is concerned, a mistake in a football coach hire is far more devastating than the wrong basketball hire. After 3-4 years of a coaching disaster, it will take at least that long and probably longer to recover assuming the right hire is made the next time around.
Finally, so what if we are over paying over the last 2-3 years, where has the harm been? Has the crew team been short changed, did the band have to stay at Holiday Inn Express in Phoenix? This Department, in large measure due to Kirk Ferent'z tenure is flush in cash and able to support all its sports teams, most of which generate next to nothing in revenue.
All this nonsense about the salary of Coach Ferentz is a red herring. If we were dropping sports, maybe there would be room for concern. Under the circumstances I am far more comfortable overpaying slightly than injecting a lower priced coach in the hopes we can sustain or improve things. I am far from a major contributor, but I have been buying tickets and donating a somewhat generous sum for years now. I have not one regret that a portion of my money is being used to pay the salary of Kirk Ferentz. I may wish there was less spending in some areas of the Department, but the salary of the football coach is no where near the top of that list.
Billso
Well-Known Member
Again with the excuses! Our performance was unacceptable!
Actually a good thread; the guy above has not really made an appearance.
I think we are lucky to have Kirk and he is doing overall a solid job and overcoming the natural recruiting disadvantages remarkably. I simultaneously think there is scope for improvement in Kirk's performance. I believe he sees that, perhaps belatedly, and the fresh eyes on the staff this year should help greatly.
Actually a good thread; the guy above has not really made an appearance.
I think we are lucky to have Kirk and he is doing overall a solid job and overcoming the natural recruiting disadvantages remarkably. I simultaneously think there is scope for improvement in Kirk's performance. I believe he sees that, perhaps belatedly, and the fresh eyes on the staff this year should help greatly.
SpiderRico
Well-Known Member
Again with the excuses! Our performance was unacceptable!
Actually a good thread; the guy above has not really made an appearance.
I think we are lucky to have Kirk and he is doing overall a solid job and overcoming the natural recruiting disadvantages remarkably. I simultaneously think there is scope for improvement in Kirk's performance. I believe he sees that, perhaps belatedly, and the fresh eyes on the staff this year should help greatly.
We beat teams that finished the year with 8+ wins at a clip of about 45%. That's actually tops among our peers (Wisconsin, MSU, Mich, PSU and Neb) from 2001-2011. We beat teams that finished the year with 4-7 wins at less than a 75% clip. Other than MSU, it's the worst % among our peers.
Our improvement needs to focus on how to beat those "middle of the road teams" more consistently. I'm hoping with the addition of new blood on the staff and a commitment to doing things a little differently and taking some chances when you have a program that puts as many players into the NFL as we do, that that number will improve. Doing that will take us from being a 7-8 win team and move us up into the 9, 10 and 11 win area.
Golfer
Well-Known Member
I was pretty upset after the Nebraska game. Mostly because I predicted early in the first quarter, we'd throw the ball late in the game, against the wind, when the game was already over. When a guy like me, who played basketball and ran track, and only later started to learn about the extremely technical game of football can predict plays, I thought it had gotten pretty bad.
I was really upset for quite a while. I blew up on here, called the I Club a bunch of farmers (later apologized for that) etc etc. I was mostly angry at not being called a "real fan", because I was critical, and I had never sat through two decades of miserable football (as if that is some sort of badge of courage).
I'm pretty sure KoK didn't get fired, but I do think opportunity met opportunity, and it was the beat kind of coup d'état possible. It happened, no one was hurt, and had it not happened, the pressures, already enormous, were getting louder, and more direct.
KoK, by the way, earned my respect for his not so quiet criticism of the Marcus Coker situation. Not great judgement on his part with whom he decided to become vocal about it, but he spoke the truth.
I think the new staff will bring change. I also think change in an of itself in this specific situation, is good. It might take some time, but I think it will be good.
If I have any criticism of KF, it is he is too loyal and too nice. I know, pretty harsh when this is the best I can come up with.
So we offered him his salary, he accepted. It is the market rate.
If things do not turn out well in the next 3-5 years, I'd be surprised if Iowa didn't make a move. I doubt we get faced with this. No evidence, just my instinct. I also think we over perform next year. No evidence once again, just a hunch. Hopefully I'm right.
I was really upset for quite a while. I blew up on here, called the I Club a bunch of farmers (later apologized for that) etc etc. I was mostly angry at not being called a "real fan", because I was critical, and I had never sat through two decades of miserable football (as if that is some sort of badge of courage).
I'm pretty sure KoK didn't get fired, but I do think opportunity met opportunity, and it was the beat kind of coup d'état possible. It happened, no one was hurt, and had it not happened, the pressures, already enormous, were getting louder, and more direct.
KoK, by the way, earned my respect for his not so quiet criticism of the Marcus Coker situation. Not great judgement on his part with whom he decided to become vocal about it, but he spoke the truth.
I think the new staff will bring change. I also think change in an of itself in this specific situation, is good. It might take some time, but I think it will be good.
If I have any criticism of KF, it is he is too loyal and too nice. I know, pretty harsh when this is the best I can come up with.
So we offered him his salary, he accepted. It is the market rate.
If things do not turn out well in the next 3-5 years, I'd be surprised if Iowa didn't make a move. I doubt we get faced with this. No evidence, just my instinct. I also think we over perform next year. No evidence once again, just a hunch. Hopefully I'm right.
What's that quote? " You are what your record says you are." For the last 7 years Iowa is paying top 10 money for top 40 or worse results.
In the end, the head coach is responsible for all aspects of the program. This includes any problems, successes and failures. Kirk needs to do whatever it takes to bring the program back to the success he had in the early 2000s. If Iowa continues on the same path of the last 7 years then I think his pay would be seen as a disaster to most rational people.
I have also met Kirk and agree with all the great things said about him. But to blindly defend his pay versus his record is to not look at the situation as a whole. Coaches are paid that kind of money to overcome obstacles and bring their programs up to their pay grade. This is no different than any other multi million dollar paying job.
In the end, the head coach is responsible for all aspects of the program. This includes any problems, successes and failures. Kirk needs to do whatever it takes to bring the program back to the success he had in the early 2000s. If Iowa continues on the same path of the last 7 years then I think his pay would be seen as a disaster to most rational people.
I have also met Kirk and agree with all the great things said about him. But to blindly defend his pay versus his record is to not look at the situation as a whole. Coaches are paid that kind of money to overcome obstacles and bring their programs up to their pay grade. This is no different than any other multi million dollar paying job.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Why don't you look at the situation as a whole?
Revenues of $44-46 mil, and expenses of 18-20 mil., and you hand back a profit of 20-27 mil. Per year to the athletic department, which then funds all the other sports at the university. That is called underpaid if anything.....
Which Football and Basketball Programs Produce the Largest Profits? «
This is why he makes what he does, because it is run like a multi-million dollar industry that it is.......and KF is killing it at a school with a small enrollment in a state with a small population, and another D1 school in state to compete against for fans $$$$$.
Billso
Well-Known Member
Well, they ARE a bunch of farmers. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Good people, and smart and technically-savvy managers, as you have to be nowadays to survive in that business.
? When and with whom was this? Sounds like I missed something out here in the soggy Northwest.
Golfer
Well-Known Member
I'll just say this. KF runs the football program. Sometimes the U's administration brings things to his attention (which I'm sure he is already aware of). Right before the KoK change, there was a meeting. KoK voiced some displeasure about the handling of Coker's situation. His displeasure was duly noted, and not very receptively be the U. I have heard, and in this instance because of who I heard it from, I believe it, there were some raised voices.
Very, very shortly after this, KoK finds a new opportunity in Miami.
I can never know for sure what happened, and quite frankly don't really need to know, but I can draw some logical possible scenarios.
hogeye
Well-Known Member
I think you're the one blindly ignoring facts, Cory.
The fact is that what Iowa has done with all things considered it's pretty amazing. We're the only non-traditional powerhouse school in Forbes list of the most valuable college football programs for a reason, and that reason is Kirk Ferentz.
So go ahead and keep on blindly attacking Ferentz, oh yeah...which I have also met (because that matters), and demanding the ridiculous. Keep cherry picking the statistics that support your argument and ignoring the obvious facts.
I am all for positive, realistic criticism of the program. There is no question that I wouldn't grade Iowa at an A rating right now based on what we're able to achieve. I do criticize Kirk for not being more aggressive with getting an offensive mind in here sooner. I think lack of QB development has forever been an issue.
That said, you're not going to find many guys that can come in and do what Ferentz has done with running an honest, compliant program in a state that has essentially zero local talent and has to go battle against giants year in and year out to get talent.
SpiderRico
Well-Known Member
To me, his biggest achievement isn't necessarily getting talent. Over the 13 years of his tenure, I'd venture to guess that the average class is ranked somewhere around 45th nationally and probably about 6th within the conference. Pretty decent, but not world beating by any stretch. However, where he has excelled is in getting that slightly above average talent to perform at a level higher than their recruiting ranking indicated.....high enough that we are currently in the Top 10 in number of players currently on an NFL roster. That's called over-acheivement and that's called knowing how to teach and coach up a player.
Are the results on the field consistent with the talent that we've put in the NFL? Absolutely not. And in all reality, Ferentz was probably a year late in making the changes he made. However, now that they're made, I'm extremely excited to see how things will proceed as we move forward.
Yes..........this.......Can we just keep this on file and insert it into the endless threads as needed??
hogeye
Well-Known Member
That was never my point. I've said time and time again...Iowa doesn't recruit talent, Iowa develops talent. If anything, I am simply pointing out that the talent that we DO get comes from out state almost exclusively, and more to the point, we don't have a crop of local talent to benefit from like the other top 20 or so schools have in their back yard.
My main (shouldn't have said only) real criticism is that I don't feel at any time we've done a very good job developing the QB position. This is a valid criticism, I think.
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SpiderRico
Well-Known Member
But that was no different under Fry and it'll be no different with any other coach we get in here after Ferentz hangs it up. I don't think he's done anything special in the talent acquiring department from out of state. In fact, I'd venture to say that Fry got in BETTER out of state talent. We got a TON of guys from Texas and New Jersey when Fry was here. Now, we're lucky if we get a Texas guy once every 2 or 3 years.
But what has separated Ferentz's tenure from Fry's tenure regarding personnel is how well players have been coached up and then subsequently drafted. Fry didn't put near the number of players in the NFL as Ferentz has.
