Imagine CJ with this extra weapon: Gazette article

[LG210]

Can you read? I said TECH. How does someone like your post? Good grief.

This is the post of the day, BTW.

I hope you don't mind, but after reading your post, I went back and made myself the second person to give his post a thumbs-up.

 

[DP5555]

This is the post of the day, BTW.

I hope you don't mind, but after reading your post, I went back and made myself the second person to give his post a thumbs-up.

Right back at ya. Likes all around today. Screw it... It's Friday.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

The difference is one quit midseason one didn't. One bailed on his team in the middle of a season the other did it during the offseason. While you may find interesting how fans wish JR well and not Willies, I find it incredible that you see no difference between the timing of their departures. I also see a key being JR transferring to finish his career with an opportunity to start somewhere during his last year of eligibility vs.Willies who wasn't even in the program for 2 full seasons. My opinion Willies was mentally weak and his opportunities for PT were in front of him, I simply don't understand the play me or else mentality coming from someone who wasn't even an upper classman.

This is only saying that there are different levels of quitting, which is not true. If we had JR as backup this season we would be loaded with depth at qb. But JR chose to quit on his teammates because he was no longer going to be the starter. You can bang the drum about the timing of the quitting, but is only one level of quit.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

It may have been for the same reason but much different execution.
If you can't understand that quitting in the middle of the season is more detrimental to the team, then you are either walking around with blinders on or you don't understand team dynamics.

You are equating raw athletic talent with being a complete football player.

DW saw plenty of play time. He looked completely lost at times on the field. Do you want an extremely athletic kid running around the field who only knows where he is going 50% of the time or an average athletic kid who knows where he is going every time?

Gester, that is a rationalization.

All receivers looked lost against Purdue. Hillyer dropped a td pass in the end zone. There, what, 6 to 8 dropped passes by Iowa receivers that game?

 

[GesterHawk]

Gester, that is a rationalization.

All receivers looked lost against Purdue. Hillyer dropped a td pass in the end zone. There, what, 6 to 8 dropped passes by Iowa receivers that game?

The entire receiving corp was plagued by drops the entire season up to and including that game, I agree.

But there were some obvious issues with where Willies was at on the field at times and some of the routes he ran. Can this all be attributed to him, no.

But he was playing with the QB he had been practicing all season long with on the 2's so he should have had familiarity with him so cohesiveness should have been less of a problem there.

 

[deanvogs]

Here is the paragraph of your previous post that caused me to ask for a link. But, I see now that you're calling it your "guess," which is an assumption. Do you have a link to the podcast you heard them say these things?

deanvogs:

"Wow, speaking of re writing history. DW was getting playing time, he was behind the players who were clearly better than him (KMM and Smith) and he was part of a group of 4 other players rotating into the game (Powell, Hillyer, Vandeberg, and DW). During the Purdue game it was clear he didn't have a grasp of the O, as he ran multiple routes wrong and it was either Morehouse or Docherman who said they were on the sidelines at Purdue and he was asking MV and other WR where he was supposed to be etc. Then he got injured and was limited. While he was still limited he quit."

That is what Docherman or Morehouse said, believe me or not, I don't really care. They said it in a podcast sometime between when he quit and now.

 

[GesterHawk]

Gester, that is a rationalization.

All receivers looked lost against Purdue. Hillyer dropped a td pass in the end zone. There, what, 6 to 8 dropped passes by Iowa receivers that game?

How is that rationalization?
Asking whether a more complete player should see the field more than someone who is less complete but more athletic?

 

[deanvogs]

This is only saying that there are different levels of quitting, which is not true. If we had JR as backup this season we would be loaded with depth at qb. But JR chose to quit on his teammates because he was no longer going to be the starter. You can bang the drum about the timing of the quitting, but is only one level of quit.

WOW, It is clear you just have gone "all in" with this whole DW thing.

BTW what does JR's quitting have to do with DW quitting??

 

[ArvadaHawk]

How is that rationalization?
Asking whether a more complete player should see the field more than someone who is less complete but more athletic?

Gester the rationalization comment was for the distinction you made that JR's quitting and DW's quitting were different.

 

[PCHawk]

We have hashed and re hashed this a million times now. Arvada and PC I think you guys VASTLY overrate what DW was doing on the field when he was in the field. He clearly wasn't even close to KMM or Smith and clearly didn't deserve a starting spot, but he was playing as much as Iowa backup WR play. It is clear to see now why MV was getting time, it was easy to see why Powell was getting time. Maybe less easy to see why JH was getting time, but I think that was because he was the best blocking WR. DW hadn't separated yet, this is normal for kids playing in their first year trying to get up to speed on D1 football.

Hey I'm the guy who just admitted that Willies probably wasn't as good as his athletic ability made him look. I just don't like Kirk's decision making on what makes one player better than another. I'm sure there are plenty of D1 coaches out there that would agree with me. It seems like Kirk would rather bring a guy around slowly and maybe get one good year out of him than get him in there early and live with some mistakes but get 2 or 3 good years out of him. It's especially frustrating when the players playing instead also have glaring weeknesses.

 

[deanvogs]

Hey I'm the guy who just admitted that Willies probably wasn't as good as his athletic ability made him look. I just don't like Kirk's decision making on what makes one player better than another. I'm sure there are plenty of D1 coaches out there that would agree with me. It seems like Kirk would rather bring a guy around slowly and maybe get one good year out of him than get him in there early and live with some mistakes but get 2 or 3 good years out of him. It's especially frustrating when the players playing instead also have glaring weeknesses.

I have noticed the softening on your stance. Last year you were saying that Vandeberg didn't even deserve to be on the field, and this weak you said how underrated he was.

Another thing to consider is that position coaches have a ton of say on rotations, etc. It isn't KF who is sending in and out WR groups during games. Now I'm sure they all talk about who will play, etc. but this isn't the QB position where the head man is picking the starter and he is the only one who gets to play.

 

[1hawkeye1]

JUCO's are littered with kids with D1 and B1G talent. Many times they go JUCO for grades or as a transition stop before heading to another D1 school.

"Littered" is a pretty strong term. Many times they don't have the work ethic, maturity, or integrity to make it in D1. But usually, they just aren't good enough.

 

[GesterHawk]

Gester the rationalization comment was for the distinction you made that JR's quitting and DW's quitting were different.

Do you seriously not see the difference?

 

[ArvadaHawk]

WOW, It is clear you just have gone "all in" with this whole DW thing.

BTW what does JR's quitting have to do with DW quitting??

I never said they were related, dean. That's a strawman argument. What I did say is quitting is quitting because many folks in this thread seem to not want to recognize the cause of the quitting as part of the equation. Many, here, have stated that "he quit mid-season, so good riddance. If you had posed that question to me, I would have answered that he quit, so good riddance. However, I do care about the cause; the why did he quit. To me, he got an unfair shake with playing time. You stated that you had heard "either Morehouse or Dochterman" say they were on sidelines at Purdue and (paraphrasing you) he was lost and was asking for help. I asked you to provide a link because I'd never heard that and if true, it could change my opinion on the cause. Your reply was essentially, (again paraphrasing) "why should I?"

My point is that DW quit, that is indisputable, but that is only the result of the problems completion. What caused that result? It was a systemic approach of playing less talented players over more talented. And let's not paint DW as an untalented kid who was lucky to even be on the team. The kid has loads of talent and was chased away by an unbending coach. Our coach had to announce CJ as the 2015 starter (correct choice) or CJ was gone. Our coach changed too late for DW. I'm just thankful he did it in time to keep CJ.

I just don't understand how so many cannot separate the cause and effect. They are two separate points of discussion.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

Arvada, it is very clear no one is going to change your mind, and that is fine. In my opinion, just my opinion mind you, there is a large distinction between JR and DW's situations concerning leaving the program.

Player JR - 4 years in the program, left AFTER his 4th year after losing his starting position, that almost everyone would agree (especially now) was the right move. He had the opportunity to be the starter at a major D1 program, right away.

Player DW - 1 year in the program, left DURING his 2nd year (under false pretenses - it clearly wasn't to be close to an ailing family member) because HE felt he wasn't playing enough. Doesn't really matter why he wasn't playing enough (injury, playbook, etc). He didn't leave because he lost his position, in his last year. He had 3 MORE YEARS to show everyone all of this talent that we all so badly wanted to see. Instead, he's playing for TX Juco who has lost more games that the B1G team he could have been playing for. But is stats are awesome....and that's how you get to the League baby.

I'll concede that both players quit the program. In my opinion, there's a pretty sizable difference in how they did it, and WHY they did it.

But that's not really the issue here, is it?. The issue here is that KF never plays the best talent....correct? I'll agree, I don't think he does always play the best Talent, I believe (outside of maybe Jake over Stanzi-hard to understand that one) he does play what he believes to be the best overall Player. Is he always correct, nope. But to think he always plays an inferior player out of spite, stubbornness, or complete ineptness is flat out stupid.

But I'm an apologist.

So, about future NFL'r Willies.....

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

I never said they were related, dean. That's a strawman argument. What I did say is quitting is quitting because many folks in this thread seem to not want to recognize the cause of the quitting as part of the equation. Many, here, have stated that "he quit mid-season, so good riddance. If you had posed that question to me, I would have answered that he quit, so good riddance. However, I do care about the cause; the why did he quit. To me, he got an unfair shake with playing time. You stated that you had heard "either Morehouse or Dochterman" say they were on sidelines at Purdue and (paraphrasing you) he was lost and was asking for help. I asked you to provide a link because I'd never heard that and if true, it could change my opinion on the cause. Your reply was essentially, (again paraphrasing) "why should I?"

My point is that DW quit, that is indisputable, but that is only the result of the problems completion. What caused that result? It was a systemic approach of playing less talented players over more talented. And let's not paint DW as an untalented kid who was lucky to even be on the team. The kid has loads of talent and was chased away by an unbending coach. Our coach had to announce CJ as the 2015 starter (correct choice) or CJ was gone. Our coach changed too late for DW. I'm just thankful he did it in time to keep CJ.

I just don't understand how so many cannot separate the cause and effect. They are two separate points of discussion.

"What caused that result? It was a systemic approach of playing less talented players over more talented. And let's not paint DW as an untalented kid who was lucky to even be on the team. The kid has loads of talent and was chased away by an unbending coach. Our coach had to announce CJ as the 2015 starter (correct choice) or CJ was gone. Our coach changed too late for DW. I'm just thankful he did it in time to keep CJ."

Willies had talent, Absolutely. Willies was clearly the 3rd best WR on the team?....meh, arguable. But hey, if you can be the man as a RS Frosh...just find somewhere you can be....

D1 coaches probably shouldn't make QB decisions based on what a RS freshman WR wants.

Chased Away? I think he quit on his own.

"I just don't understand how so many cannot separate the cause and effect. They are two separate points of discussion."

You are making an assumption that DW should have been playing more, that he was completely healthy, and know his role and playbook....and that KF simply didn't play him out of spite or ignorance.....

 

[Knight78]

^^^^This topic was covered earlier in the thread. The CRGazette may realize, like many, that you play CJ/Willies the entire game against the Cyclones in 2014 and that is a W. You give CJ two pro wide receivers THIS year (Willies/Smith) and Iowa has a MUCH better chance at winning their division. I can't think of anything more lame than the posters on this board who have thousands of posts and most of those posts are the equivalent of "let it go". Empty posting styles from empty heads.

Here's a partial list of things I won't let go: Tim Dwight shaving his legs - Haydens 15 game win streak against the clones - the 1981 victory over the Huskers - Chuck Long all thru 1985 - the 2002 loss to the Cyclones - Coker getting railroaded - AIRBHG's evil - Kurt Warner not getting a sniff from Fry - 8 wins outa 17 tries against the Cyclones - Juxtaposing Evy the legendary coach with Evy the AD - 2010 Wisky game - Double-agent Jon Beutjer's successful secret mission to take down Illinois from within - 2010 Georgia Tech game - Tate to Holloway - Sanders the kid who nobody wanted - Scothawks awesome videos - Ronnie Harmon - 38-14 over Pac10 co-champion - People who tell me they know Hawkeye football and then predict 45-3 victories before every game - Bob Bowlsby - any female University President - Larry Station - Prof.s who can't handle the awesome pink locker-room - lifetime contracts - Tavian Banks - posters who say "I'm good with 7-6 as long as we play IOWA football" - 2002 to 2004 - 4 top 10 finishes in a decade - greed redefined as classy - coaching tears that made me misty - and a bunch of other things that you control freaks think shouldn't be posted because you see Hawkeye boards as free happy therapy meant to only reflect your fantasies rather than reality.

BTW, I'm psyched about 3-0 and can't wait for the rest of the season to unfold.

In Hayden's defense (and in all common sense), Warner didn't even play a down until his senior year at UNI. If he couldn't beat out the UNI players ahead of him until his senior year, do you think he would have seen the field at Iowa?

 

[Knight78]

Unless the more talented player doesn't even try, it should be irrelevant how hard some scrub works. Life isn't fair. Some guys don't have to try as hard and they can still be better than a guy who busts his ***. You HAVE to have the best players on the field at this level. People like you and old Kirk would have gone 7-5 with guys like Rudock and Rudy starting.

So by DW asking teammates where he should be on the field, by DW not knowing what routes to run, by DW not understanding hot reads.... he's trying? Trying what? I agree with Yoda on this: Do! Or Do NOT! There is no TRY!

 

[Knight78]

Seriously Arvada? Are you being obtuse to be argumentative or do you really not understand.

OK, imagine this:
You own a restaurant.
It is your busiest night ever.
You have a cook decides he wants to quit.
Would you look at him differently if he finishes off his shift or if he walks out halfway through the dinner rush?

The one who walks out halfway through the dinner rush would most likely never work in that field again. That cook would have to move to a different town to start all over again. And if the restaurant has a reputation of excellence, that cook might never work as a cook again.

 

[kicker22]

Gester the rationalization comment was for the distinction you made that JR's quitting and DW's quitting were different.

You seriously don't see it as being different? You amaze me. I'm not saying, nor have I ever that JR didn't "quit" by definition of the word quit. What I've said was that he left the team in a completely different circumstance then DW did. JR FINISHED the season and the team what ever it did internally to the team had very little affect on bring attention to the situation or causing problems in the locker room because it took place during the offseason. DW quit midseason. JR graduated and transferred upon the completion of the season.

I'm seriously confused by your stance on this. JR had his chance and his competition passed him up. Willies had yet to earn his time and was in a position where his best years were ahead of him as he worked his way up the depth chart. I guess we'll never see eye to eye on this.