Imagine CJ with this extra weapon: Gazette article

[Knight78]

This is only saying that there are different levels of quitting, which is not true. If we had JR as backup this season we would be loaded with depth at qb. But JR chose to quit on his teammates because he was no longer going to be the starter. You can bang the drum about the timing of the quitting, but is only one level of quit.

But JR FINISHED THE SEASON! What don't you get about that? Yes, there ARE different levels of quitting. Quitting in mid-season because you believe that you are not getting playing time that you deserve is very different from quitting after the season is completed.

If you are in the middle of a project at work and just quit, do you think you'll get a job in that field later? How about if you wait until the project is complete?

 

[Knight78]

Gester the rationalization comment was for the distinction you made that JR's quitting and DW's quitting were different.

But they WERE different. Quitting mid season for perceived lack of playing time is a lot different than leaving after you graduate to participate at another school with your final year of eligibility.

 

[PCHawk]

I have noticed the softening on your stance. Last year you were saying that Vandeberg didn't even deserve to be on the field, and this weak you said how underrated he was.

Another thing to consider is that position coaches have a ton of say on rotations, etc. It isn't KF who is sending in and out WR groups during games. Now I'm sure they all talk about who will play, etc. but this isn't the QB position where the head man is picking the starter and he is the only one who gets to play.

Didn't deserve to be on the field? You MIGHT be able to dig up a post or two out off my hundred on this topic but for the most part I've never been that hard on Vandeberg. And as far as saying he was underrated goes, all I did was pose the question. I never gave my opinion on the matter. As far as Vandy goes, I've never had an extreme opinion on him one way or another.

 

[PCHawk]

"What caused that result? It was a systemic approach of playing less talented players over more talented. And let's not paint DW as an untalented kid who was lucky to even be on the team. The kid has loads of talent and was chased away by an unbending coach. Our coach had to announce CJ as the 2015 starter (correct choice) or CJ was gone. Our coach changed too late for DW. I'm just thankful he did it in time to keep CJ."

Willies had talent, Absolutely. Willies was clearly the 3rd best WR on the team?....meh, arguable. But hey, if you can be the man as a RS Frosh...just find somewhere you can be....

D1 coaches probably shouldn't make QB decisions based on what a RS freshman WR wants.

Chased Away? I think he quit on his own.

"I just don't understand how so many cannot separate the cause and effect. They are two separate points of discussion."

You are making an assumption that DW should have been playing more, that he was completely healthy, and know his role and playbook....and that KF simply didn't play him out of spite or ignorance.....

No one thinks he plays inferior players out of spite or ignorance. That's just something people on here say that people are saying because they can't comprehend what they're actually saying.

 

[PCHawk]

So by DW asking teammates where he should be on the field, by DW not knowing what routes to run, by DW not understanding hot reads.... he's trying? Trying what? I agree with Yoda on this: Do! Or Do NOT! There is no TRY!

I would say asking someone for help to try to get better at something is pretty much the definition of trying. If a kid at school went to the teacher and asked for help on something he didn't quite grasp, would you say the kid isn't trying?

 

[ArvadaHawk]

But JR FINISHED THE SEASON! What don't you get about that? Yes, there ARE different levels of quitting. Quitting in mid-season because you believe that you are not getting playing time that you deserve is very different from quitting after the season is completed.

If you are in the middle of a project at work and just quit, do you think you'll get a job in that field later? How about if you wait until the project is complete?

Well, you know, JR was the starter, so why would he leave mid-way through the season? But, as soon as he faced adversity and would have had to compete to even have a chance to play, let alone be the starter, he quit. Isn't that what happened? They both quit on their teammates, right? It's a yes or no question. And, they both quit for the same reason: playing time. Unless it is medically necessary, how many players quit their teams because they aren't getting playing time because of a legitimate injury?

 

[Knight78]

I would say asking someone for help to try to get better at something is pretty much the definition of trying. If a kid at school went to the teacher and asked for help on something he didn't quite grasp, would you say the kid isn't trying?

If the kid went to the teacher of a trigonometry class and was asking questions about basic algebra.... yes, I'd say that kid isn't trying. If DW is asking where he should be on a play mid-way through the season....

 

[ArvadaHawk]

You seriously don't see it as being different? You amaze me. I'm not saying, nor have I ever that JR didn't "quit" by definition of the word quit. What I've said was that he left the team in a completely different circumstance then DW did. JR FINISHED the season and the team what ever it did internally to the team had very little affect on bring attention to the situation or causing problems in the locker room because it took place during the offseason. DW quit midseason. JR graduated and transferred upon the completion of the season.

I'm seriously confused by your stance on this. JR had his chance and his competition passed him up. Willies had yet to earn his time and was in a position where his best years were ahead of him as he worked his way up the depth chart. I guess we'll never see eye to eye on this.

JR was the starter. Why would he quit? As soon as JR had that taken away and would have had to compete to get it back, he quit. Playing time was behind both players quitting Iowa football.

 

[Hawk10k]

As far as I'm concerned, JR left at the right time for (arguably) valid reasons and DW left at a terrible time for selfish reasons. I don't claim to know the intangibles at work behind the scenes that led to both decisions and I certainly try my best to take it easy on 20ish year-old barely-adults when they make questionable choices. However, in this case there is clearly two different types of quitting at play here and I find no fault in how JR handled it. I've been known to pick on him for his limited abilities but I actually do wish him well. Willies, on the other hand, couldn't have handled things much worse and I'd prefer to hear nothing more said of him. He made his choice.

 

[deanvogs]

Well, you know, JR was the starter, so why would he leave mid-way through the season? But, as soon as he faced adversity and would have had to compete to even have a chance to play, let alone be the starter, he quit. Isn't that what happened? They both quit on their teammates, right? It's a yes or no question. And, they both quit for the same reason: playing time. Unless it is medically necessary, how many players quit their teams because they aren't getting playing time because of a legitimate injury?

Why do you keep this act up that transfering after the season = quitting during the season? I mean you are the only one who is buying it, everyone else realizes it is a load of sh!t that you are shoveling. I mean if you took this just a smidge further you would be telling us that when people die, they are actually a lot like DW and are just quitting on their families.

 

[DP5555]

As far as I'm concerned, JR left at the right time for (arguably) valid reasons and DW left at a terrible time for selfish reasons. I don't claim to know the intangibles at work behind the scenes that led to both decisions and I certainly try my best to take it easy on 20ish year-old barely-adults when they make questionable choices. However, in this case there is clearly two different types of quitting at play here and I find no fault in how JR handled it. I've been known to pick on him for his limited abilities but I actually do wish him well. Willies, on the other hand, couldn't have handled things much worse and I'd prefer to hear nothing more said of him. He made his choice.

Agreed. Hopefully he gets the splendid opportunity to watch his old team that he quit on playing in a legit bowl game that matters. He can always brag about the big numbers he put up in bum**** Texas.

I would find it pretty funny if he ends up at Texas Tech and helps them put a whoopin on ISU though. That's probably the only situation in which I'd cheer for him.

 

[GesterHawk]

Why do you keep this act up that transfering after the season = quitting during the season? I mean you are the only one who is buying it, everyone else realizes it is a load of sh!t that you are shoveling. I mean if you took this just a smidge further you would be telling us that when people die, they are actually a lot like DW and are just quitting on their families.

I am pretty sure he is being obtuse for argumentative reasons at this point.
I mean, he has to be, right?
I mean he can't really believe that....

 

[docholihawk]

I never said they were related, dean. That's a strawman argument. What I did say is quitting is quitting because many folks in this thread seem to not want to recognize the cause of the quitting as part of the equation. Many, here, have stated that "he quit mid-season, so good riddance. If you had posed that question to me, I would have answered that he quit, so good riddance. However, I do care about the cause; the why did he quit. To me, he got an unfair shake with playing time. You stated that you had heard "either Morehouse or Dochterman" say they were on sidelines at Purdue and (paraphrasing you) he was lost and was asking for help. I asked you to provide a link because I'd never heard that and if true, it could change my opinion on the cause. Your reply was essentially, (again paraphrasing) "why should I?"

My point is that DW quit, that is indisputable, but that is only the result of the problems completion. What caused that result? It was a systemic approach of playing less talented players over more talented. And let's not paint DW as an untalented kid who was lucky to even be on the team. The kid has loads of talent and was chased away by an unbending coach. Our coach had to announce CJ as the 2015 starter (correct choice) or CJ was gone. Our coach changed too late for DW. I'm just thankful he did it in time to keep CJ.

I just don't understand how so many cannot separate the cause and effect. They are two separate points of discussion.

By the looks of this thread there is your opinion and there is the other opinion which almost everybody else has. When you're arguing your point and nobody is agreeing with you you might want to re-examine your argument. You also seem to give DW the benefit of the doubt and say he's trying so he should play yet you're convinced KF is an unbending coach. Is that what Kirk told you? If not how do you know if KF made any attempts at bending. You said DW was trying so let me ask you this if you were planning your funeral and you asked someone to be a pallbearer and he said he'd try would you be good with that.

 

[thetrza]

I think they are related, like they're cousins or something.

 

[shonblatt]

Willies is a stretch the field kinda guy

Maybe.

But much more importantly, Willies was a "stomp his feet, whiny crybaby, take his ball and go home" kinda guy.

I don't miss him one bit.

Maybe part of the reason things have started off so well this year is because the team hasn't had any of these personnel distractions that have the tendency to be a team-dividing, locker room cancer.

 

[PCHawk]

I think Kirk's decision to play Rudock over CJ had a lot to do with Willies leaving too. I'm sure he and CJ vented to each other all the time about how dumb it was and how they're out of here. Misery loves company after all and I'm sure their conversations added fuel to the fire. The only difference is CJ waited till the end of the year because he knew the possibility was still there for him. Thank god too because if he left we definitely would have missed that "take his ball and go home" quitter.

 

[PCHawk]

Now I'm not saying that Rudock quitting was worse than Willies so please don't interpret it that way. But in one way it is worse. Willies was on the team for 1 and a half years. He hadn't buit the long relationships that Jake had. Jake was with the same guys for 4 years and he still chose to bail on them for a CHANCE to play at another school.

If I was on a team and a guy I knew for 1 year left, no big deal. But if a guy who I was with for 4 years left, it would hurt a lot more. You think you would have some loyalty after 4 years.

 

[trj]

Now I'm not saying that Rudock quitting was worse than Willies so please don't interpret it that way. But in one way it is worse. Willies was on the team for 1 and a half years. He hadn't buit the long relationships that Jake had. Jake was with the same guys for 4 years and he still chose to bail on them for a CHANCE to play at another school.

If I was on a team and a guy I knew for 1 year left, no big deal. But if a guy who I was with for 4 years left, it would hurt a lot more. You think you would have some loyalty after 4 years.[/QUOTE]

How much loyalty should he have? Theoretically, he was never beaten out. His teammates aren't dumb they know what transpired they know he had to do what was best for him.

 

[PCHawk]

Now I'm not saying that Rudock quitting was worse than Willies so please don't interpret it that way. But in one way it is worse. Willies was on the team for 1 and a half years. He hadn't buit the long relationships that Jake had. Jake was with the same guys for 4 years and he still chose to bail on them for a CHANCE to play at another school.

If I was on a team and a guy I knew for 1 year left, no big deal. But if a guy who I was with for 4 years left, it would hurt a lot more. You think you would have some loyalty after 4 years.[/QUOTE]

How much loyalty should he have? Theoretically, he was never beaten out. His teammates aren't dumb they know what transpired they know he had to do what was best for him.

He was beaten out every time CJ stepped on the field.

 

[deanvogs]

I think Kirk's decision to play Rudock over CJ had a lot to do with Willies leaving too. I'm sure he and CJ vented to each other all the time about how dumb it was and how they're out of here. Misery loves company after all and I'm sure their conversations added fuel to the fire. The only difference is CJ waited till the end of the year because he knew the possibility was still there for him. Thank god too because if he left we definitely would have missed that "take his ball and go home" quitter.

What would make you think this? CJ tried like heck to talk DW out of leavening. Listen to the All Hawkeyes podcast when they had CJ's dad on. He talked about how hard CJ tried to talk DW into staying. CJ's dad also said that CJ wouldn't even talk about the subject of transferring, so I doubt very much he and DW were sitting around complaining and talking about transferring.