who said anything about losing minutes. all i have said is that he will shift his position to the wing. i actually think his minutes may go up. i can see him get 30 min next year 20-25 at wing and 5-10 at point. with gesell and clemmons splitting the rest of the time at pg.
I'm taking opinions on Marble's future at the point.
- Thread starter Thawki
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who said anything about losing minutes. all i have said is that he will shift his position to the wing. i actually think his minutes may go up. i can see him get 30 min next year 20-25 at wing and 5-10 at point. with gesell and clemmons splitting the rest of the time at pg.
EddyP
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone is suggesting Marble is going to lose minutes or won't be starting only if he will be playing the point or not.
As stated already in this thread, it's good that I believe they can be interchangable. With Marble coming on as he had, he's making a good case for starting PG with the assist to turnover ratio, plus the ppg. Unless injury or some other odd factor plays in, we know Marble will be starting.
At the beginning of the year, I thought MG would be an auto start at the point, but now with Marbles progression it gives one something to consider.
I would say as of right now, you would probably have to pencil in Marble as the starter, unless you believe he can be just as effective a play maker as a 2 guard or that MG won't be able to play the 2 or that JO or Ingram won't start at the 2 and have Mike coming off the bench.
At the beginning of the year, I thought MG would be an auto start at the point, but now with Marbles progression it gives one something to consider.
I would say as of right now, you would probably have to pencil in Marble as the starter, unless you believe he can be just as effective a play maker as a 2 guard or that MG won't be able to play the 2 or that JO or Ingram won't start at the 2 and have Mike coming off the bench.
With multiple people that can play pg it opens up the offense a little more. The T-Wolves usually have 2 pgs on the court at the same time and it works well.
If the opposing team puts their best on-ball defender on Marble, we can have Gessel/Clemmons bring the ball up the court and vice versa. I don't think it will matter all that much who is called the PG on the floor when you have multiple guys capable of playing the position.
I think Iowa is going to pose some match up problems for opponents next year. I'm pretty excited.
If the opposing team puts their best on-ball defender on Marble, we can have Gessel/Clemmons bring the ball up the court and vice versa. I don't think it will matter all that much who is called the PG on the floor when you have multiple guys capable of playing the position.
I think Iowa is going to pose some match up problems for opponents next year. I'm pretty excited.
why is it Burke can start as a freshmen at Michigan and excell and was in the top 150
but we can't expect a top 100 pg to come in and start, and Marble move to the SG to replace the outgoing Gatens.
Marbles skills are improving and his ability to handle the ball will make Gesell's job easier.
how hard is that to understand. to me that makes a very tough backcourt to deal with.
then you have White, Basabe and Woodbury in the frontcourt that looks like a solid starting 5, and stop thinking in the past about having to deal with projects at all positions.
Gesell is not a grade school and has played against some of the best in the country, not to mention the Arizona media compared him to Mike Bibby now thats a pretty solid endorsement of his ability
but we can't expect a top 100 pg to come in and start, and Marble move to the SG to replace the outgoing Gatens.
Marbles skills are improving and his ability to handle the ball will make Gesell's job easier.
how hard is that to understand. to me that makes a very tough backcourt to deal with.
then you have White, Basabe and Woodbury in the frontcourt that looks like a solid starting 5, and stop thinking in the past about having to deal with projects at all positions.
Gesell is not a grade school and has played against some of the best in the country, not to mention the Arizona media compared him to Mike Bibby now thats a pretty solid endorsement of his ability
EddyP
Well-Known Member
Relax herb, no one is saying he can't but he hasn't played yet. I hope he does. I hope Woodbury is good enough to start too but we don't know that yet do we? Or do you just hand out starting spots to high school kids with recruiting numbers by their names? I wish people would just stop speculating about next year. I know this is a message board, don't post in the thread then Eddy(I can't help myself).
my point is why is it rated kids are not good enough to start at Iowa and will have to come off the bench for a year or two.
but at another school top rated kids come in and are solid starters
i would really like to know, i posted an example
its not like Iowa is loaded with top talent
but at another school top rated kids come in and are solid starters
i would really like to know, i posted an example
its not like Iowa is loaded with top talent
And almost every single person in the thread has said that both Marble and Gessell will start next year. It's just a matter of who is running the point and who's playing off the ball more.
If Darius Morris had stayed at Michigan instead of going pro, he would be doing most of the ball handling instead of Burke. Now Marble is not the same caliber of player of Morris but they are similar players.
marble can do what he's doing from the 3. his skill set is much better suited for SF despite the matchup problems he causes at PG. I agree that he's best with the ball in his hands, but playing SF doesn't prevent that from happening. In fact it makes me excited as I've forgotten what it's like to have a difference maker at the 3.
atomicblue224
Well-Known Member
thats what makes marble dangerous because he can play several positions.all teams know this.
AZHAWKFAN1
Well-Known Member
The REAL question should be 'who replaces Matt Gatens'. He has to be a confidant player that can handle the rock and attack the rim. In short, that sounds like Marble to me!
BlackAndGold3
Well-Known Member
i think he moves to a 2 or 3 with Gesell coming in!
No I think most people, including me, don't believe PG is A) his best position and B) where he can help the team the most next year.
He won't be "losing" his job to a freshman, he'll be moving over to the wing and allowing Fran to get the best players on the floor. That would include him being out there, just not at point. I think thats a good thing.
sportstalent
Well-Known Member
You are right.
I must make this disclaimer before I post: I have like Marble at the point from day one after following him in High School. Also, the improvement he has made this season is admirable.
Now, there is a lot of stupidity on this board at times, but don't excuse yourself from it either.
If Marble has been very good to outstanding all season, he would be a lock for 1st or 2nd team all-conference. He has been good at best, he has willed Iowa in some wins and faded in some losses.
Is Marble the best PG for Iowa right now, yes. Is Marble the long term answer for Iowa at PG, I just don't see it, what other reason would Fran recruit 2 PG's for next year and also try like heck to get all the PG's that he offered last season?
Marble is poised to be the go-to guy Iowa has lacked and it would be foolish to think that if he did slide over to the wing that he won't have the ball in his hands. He will be Iowa's number one option, I like him at the wing because of his PG and defensive skills. He can lock down other teams best guard and score on them at the other end.
Will Gesell/Clemmons take PT from Marble, uh, no.
Don't get too big in the britches to think that Marble will play PG full time next season, it is doubtful that he will. Iowa needs another scorer on the floor and Gesell fits that bill, also don't forget that Gesell is well versed in playing off the ball. It would only be an advantage to have them both on the floor at the same time, it simply makes sense.
One thing Fran does is make sense, we question some of his moves, but at the end of the day everything he has done makes sense for the big picture. For Iowa to contend for postseason next year, Clemmons/Gesell has to take a lot of the ball handling duties off of Marble to get the ball up the court so Marble can control the half court game. Also, it just helps when they play teams that are very athletic, have to have more than just one good ball handler on the floor, right now they don't have that luxury.
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i dont get how people think he is a lock to play pg next year. lately the best offensive lineup we have had lately has cartwright and marble on the court at the same time. this isnt saying cartwright needs to start i like the rotation he has right now for this year. but next year our wing position takes a hit with gatens being gone. ogelsby will be a good replacement but he isnt the defender matt is. marble at the wing gives us the best option as we have a scorer at the wing and pg with gesell (like this year) and better defense on the wing like we are getting from gatens. this will also allow us to take may out of the starting lineup. i still am seeing white playing a combo wing/post next year which makes him the perfect 6 man.
sportstalent
Well-Known Member
I would be shocked to see Oglesby start, I was a big advocate of it earlier this year, but he is a back-up at this point. That is the main reason, I see one of the two PG's to start in the backcourt with Marble, most likely Gesell for his shooting abilities.
Honestly, here are what I would like to see in the two deeps for next season:
PG: Gesell-Clemmons
SG: Marble-Ingram
SF: White-Oglesby
PF: Basabe-McCabe (either can start, McCabe has been the more consistent player this year.)
C: Woodbury-Olaseni
That still leaves Meyer, who can play the 4/5 and May who can fill a role at the 2/3.
Iowa is putting together a roster of players that compliment each other with Marble being the one emerging as the go-to guy Iowa has lacked.
There are no locks, but I do think Iowa is over recruiting a lot of the curret players on the roster, Meyer could surprise and be a kid that emerges before Woodbury.
The common theme with Iowa players that Fran is recruiting is that they are mentally tough and have a work ethic. Throw that in with their belief that they have something to prove and there is a lot to like.
Honestly, here are what I would like to see in the two deeps for next season:
PG: Gesell-Clemmons
SG: Marble-Ingram
SF: White-Oglesby
PF: Basabe-McCabe (either can start, McCabe has been the more consistent player this year.)
C: Woodbury-Olaseni
That still leaves Meyer, who can play the 4/5 and May who can fill a role at the 2/3.
Iowa is putting together a roster of players that compliment each other with Marble being the one emerging as the go-to guy Iowa has lacked.
There are no locks, but I do think Iowa is over recruiting a lot of the curret players on the roster, Meyer could surprise and be a kid that emerges before Woodbury.
The common theme with Iowa players that Fran is recruiting is that they are mentally tough and have a work ethic. Throw that in with their belief that they have something to prove and there is a lot to like.
RocknRollface
Well-Known Member
Your reaction is way over the top.
There is clearly a logical argument to be made both ways.
No matter what position Marble will lead the team in minuets played next year. No one is proposing he lose minuets or not be a starter.
RocknRollface
Well-Known Member
I also don't think there is any reason to just assume Gessel beats out Clemons for point guard duty either.
Gessel is not necessarily a true point. He is a combo who is a very good shooter. He plays shooting guard when playing with Marcus Paige
Clemons is significantly more athletic and is a fantastic on ball defender which is something Iowa really lacks this year. For a team that wants to press a guy who can pressure the ball full court is extremely valuable.
I think the two of them will likely see close to equal minuets.
Having Marble, Gessel and Clemons on the floor together is probably going to happen at certain times as well. Thats a lineup that could run people out of the gym.
I can not wait to see what Iowa is going to look like next year. Its going to be a whole different ball game.
Gessel is not necessarily a true point. He is a combo who is a very good shooter. He plays shooting guard when playing with Marcus Paige
Clemons is significantly more athletic and is a fantastic on ball defender which is something Iowa really lacks this year. For a team that wants to press a guy who can pressure the ball full court is extremely valuable.
I think the two of them will likely see close to equal minuets.
Having Marble, Gessel and Clemons on the floor together is probably going to happen at certain times as well. Thats a lineup that could run people out of the gym.
I can not wait to see what Iowa is going to look like next year. Its going to be a whole different ball game.
White is not SF. I see this on the message boards a lot but, it would not work out well. College basketball is a guards game. Ballskills, quickness, and shooting is far more important than size. Look at Mizzou ... top 5 team and they start 4 guards and only play 2 guys taller than 6' 4".
In college b-ball the court is congested (smaller than NBA and 3-point line is closer), and less room for post players to operate. It's really hard to play two true post-players, as the spacing just won't be there for either to operate or for cutters. With that said most successful teams play three "guard-types," 1 "post" with perimeter skills (some shooting ability and some ballhandling) and then a true post. For example Rodney Williams played the "3" at Minnesota last year and it didn't work well. This year is playing alongside three guards and his operating much better. Hummel plays alongside three guards, Draymond Green does, ect.. .
White doesn't have refined perimeter skills, he doesn't change directions with his dribble well and his shot is inconsistent. Plus his lateral quickness is just average (it's hard to have great lateral quickness at his size). But he is a perfect "perimeter" post player or "face-up" power forward. Both he and McCabe fit this description.
We'd be better off with playing 3 guard types at the 1-3 positions, then play White and McCabe at the "perimeter" post position with Woodbury and Basabe taking up most the minutes as the true post player. Sprinkle Meyer and Gabe O if they deserve minutes. We need to keep getting more athletic and more skilled. Playing White as a big does this. Playing White with two other bigs does not.
In college b-ball the court is congested (smaller than NBA and 3-point line is closer), and less room for post players to operate. It's really hard to play two true post-players, as the spacing just won't be there for either to operate or for cutters. With that said most successful teams play three "guard-types," 1 "post" with perimeter skills (some shooting ability and some ballhandling) and then a true post. For example Rodney Williams played the "3" at Minnesota last year and it didn't work well. This year is playing alongside three guards and his operating much better. Hummel plays alongside three guards, Draymond Green does, ect.. .
White doesn't have refined perimeter skills, he doesn't change directions with his dribble well and his shot is inconsistent. Plus his lateral quickness is just average (it's hard to have great lateral quickness at his size). But he is a perfect "perimeter" post player or "face-up" power forward. Both he and McCabe fit this description.
We'd be better off with playing 3 guard types at the 1-3 positions, then play White and McCabe at the "perimeter" post position with Woodbury and Basabe taking up most the minutes as the true post player. Sprinkle Meyer and Gabe O if they deserve minutes. We need to keep getting more athletic and more skilled. Playing White as a big does this. Playing White with two other bigs does not.
First of all, college courts are the same size as NBA courts, no idea where you got the idea that they are smaller. I don't think White will start at the 3, and I agree that he would be at a defensive disadvantage trying to guard some quick 3's. But I do think he will see time there in bigger line ups. White has a great feel for the game, he's very good at taking advantage of smaller players on him. Having the ability to throw different line ups at a team is something we will finally have next year and I fully expect Fran to take advantage of that.
