I'll say it...next coach please

lightning1 said:
It was time for a new coach when the 2015-16 team tanked at the end of the season. He had no answer to right that ship as it sunk. As a coach, that's inexcusable. That's when I knew he wouldn't do.
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Spot on. Another poster mentioned seeing the cracks in the foundation early on having watched college basketball for 50 years or so and I probably match you guys in age. We've had red flags with Fran for awhile and the collapse you mentioned at the close of the Woodbury/Gesell/Clemmons era stands out as that should have represented the peak of Fran's tenure here so far with that group of seniors who worked really hard and actually played defense. Everyone wanted run and gun after the three abysmal years with Lickliter and I think most fans have woken up to the fact that this style of basketball doesn't play well at this level. This season the problems with Fran have simply come to a head.
 
It really doesn't matter what one thinks of Fran's coaching ability IMO. There is talent in the freshman and sophomore classes. He has an elite player coming in next year. And we get son number 2 the following year...and he may bring another top tier player with him. The roster and recruiting mandate 2 more years IMO. If we aren't winning NCAA Tournament games at that point the cupboard is well stocked for a Raveling to Davis type of transition. But I don't think Fran is going anywhere anytime soon.
 
WindsorHawk said:
It really doesn't matter what one thinks of Fran's coaching ability IMO. There is talent in the freshman and sophomore classes. He has an elite player coming in next year. And we get son number 2 the following year...and he may bring another top tier player with him. The roster and recruiting mandate 2 more years IMO. If we aren't winning NCAA Tournament games at that point the cupboard is well stocked for a Raveling to Davis type of transition. But I don't think Fran is going anywhere anytime soon.
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Your scenario paints a picture he could be gone 2 years from now. What's your definition of soon?
 
WindsorHawk said:
It really doesn't matter what one thinks of Fran's coaching ability IMO. There is talent in the freshman and sophomore classes. He has an elite player coming in next year.
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Talent?
We have one good player!
We're is this talent?
And after 8 years, how can you be so sure our "elite" player next year will even live up to his billing?
When has a Fran player EVER done that?

This team is getting no better, and nothing over 8 years has told me to expect it will ever get better.
 
ArvadaHawk said:
i agree. after 2012 kirk should have been gone. but he was allowed to stay and recover after unexpectedly bad season. so, clearly, fran needs to go.
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Kirk got us 3 top 10 finishes. Fran's peak has been a slightly above average team 2 out of 8 years.
 
GotTimDodge said:
Talent?
We have one good player!
We're is this talent?
And after 8 years, how can you be so sure our "elite" player next year will even live up to his billing?
When has a Fran player EVER done that?

This team is getting no better, and nothing over 8 years has told me to expect it will ever get better.
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Iowa has a ton of talent. The problem is the pieces aren't fitting together. There's no point guard, there's no leader, and there's nobody with the ability to completely takeover a game...and on top of that nobody plays defense.

Put Nate Mason on this Iowa team...a guy with a 3:1 assist to turnover ratio, a leader and floor general...and this team is completely different. Kinda like how last year with Jok this team had a leader and a go-to guy and they nearly made the NCAA tournament.
 
mopkins said:
3 top 10 finishes? You mean 5?
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I guess in 2012 it would've been 4 right? I can't keep track. My point was, that we have been nationally relevant under Kirk even if it only is once every 4 or 5 years, at least we understand it's possible. With Fran, we've had points in the season where we thought we might be very good, but usually end at average to well below average. Some people are good with being mediocre because we have been worse than that in the past. I think that's a terrible excuse. The writing is on the wall. Fran needs to go.
 
DJL said:
I guess in 2012 it would've been 4 right? I can't keep track. My point was, that we have been nationally relevant under Kirk even if it only is once every 4 or 5 years, at least we understand it's possible. With Fran, we've had points in the season where we thought we might be very good, but usually end at average to well below average. Some people are good with being mediocre because we have been worse than that in the past. I think that's a terrible excuse. The writing is on the wall. Fran needs to go.
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I said this in another thread, but did you realize only 1 coach in the history of Iowa basketball has lead Iowa to 4 straight NCAA tournaments? That was Lute. Tom Davis never did it, Alford never did it, Raveling never did it, etc. So to call for Fran to be fired after going to 3 straight NCAA tournaments and barely missing the tournament last year after graduating 4 starters is way too premature for me.

If next year is a disaster similar to this one then yeah his seat gets hot.
 
mopkins said:
So to call for Fran to be fired after going to 3 straight NCAA tournaments and barely missing the tournament last year after graduating 4 starters is way too premature for me
.
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Straw man.
Not making 4 straight NCAAs has absolutely nothing to do with why Fran needs to go.
Fran needs to go because he sucks at coaching, his teams don't play D, his teams don't improve, there is no leadership, and he's an absolute spazz on the court.

Oh, and he's well on his way to being winless in the B10.
 
Hire the coach at IC West HS. All he does is win state championship after state championship. This years Trojans team could beat Div 3 teams, easily.
 
mopkins said:
Iowa has a ton of talent. The problem is the pieces aren't fitting together. There's no point guard, there's no leader, and there's nobody with the ability to completely takeover a game...and on top of that nobody plays defense.

Put Nate Mason on this Iowa team...a guy with a 3:1 assist to turnover ratio, a leader and floor general...and this team is completely different. Kinda like how last year with Jok this team had a leader and a go-to guy and they nearly made the NCAA tournament.
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This just isn't true. Cook is the only player on our roster that would start for most good college basketball teams and he's probably the only player in the top 25 in the conference.
 
GotTimDodge said:
Straw man.
Not making 4 straight NCAAs has absolutely nothing to do with why Fran needs to go.
Fran needs to go because he sucks at coaching, his teams don't play D, his teams don't improve, there is no leadership, and he's an absolute spazz on the court.

Oh, and he's well on his way to being winless in the B10.
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Sucks at coaching? Many basketball minds who are much more credible than anonymous message board poster would completely disagree. Defense hasn't been the best under Fran but to say that his teams haven't played D the 8 years he's been here is also bull, as for impovement taking us from the cellar to NIT to NIT final, to NCAA seems like there was improvement there, this is the first team that hasn't had a flat out leader, and you call him a spazz many others would say he gives a shit about the game and his players.
 
The cellar to the NIT (lol) to the NIT final to the NCAA...
and well on our way back to the cellar.

My god, what coach doesn't give a shit about the game and players?

What the heck is going on in here?
 
HawkeyeHypnosis said:
Sucks at coaching? Many basketball minds who are much more credible than anonymous message board poster would completely disagree.
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I'm sure many basketball minds would disagree with the statement 'Lickliter sucks at coaching" as well.
Does that mean he should have stuck around? Because it wasn't unanimously agreed upon by Basketball Minds that he sucked at coaching?

Will a Fran Zombie please make some sense in this thread?
 
mopkins said:
I said this in another thread, but did you realize only 1 coach in the history of Iowa basketball has lead Iowa to 4 straight NCAA tournaments? That was Lute. Tom Davis never did it, Alford never did it, Raveling never did it, etc. So to call for Fran to be fired after going to 3 straight NCAA tournaments and barely missing the tournament last year after graduating 4 starters is way too premature for me.

If next year is a disaster similar to this one then yeah his seat gets hot.
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All of those coaches got fired or ran away before they could get fired. I'm not sure pointing out the failures of fired coaches is a good argument to make for keeping another coach with the same failures.
 
Hawk5656 said:
This just isn't true. Cook is the only player on our roster that would start for most good college basketball teams and he's probably the only player in the top 25 in the conference.
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There is a lot of talent on this roster. Just not the kind of talent needed to run this offense. Or the kind of talent that can play defense without a team concept.
 
GotTimDodge said:
The cellar to the NIT (lol) to the NIT final to the NCAA...
and well on our way back to the cellar.

My god, what coach doesn't give a shit about the game and players?

What the heck is going on in here?
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So because your unhappy what he has done doesn't count as improvement. I get it. He's shown he could get it done then. No reason to think he can't now
 
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