I really miss Mr. Davis

[PCHawk]

I would guess that what we get with Fran from now on will be the same as what we got with Davis after the first couple years.

 

[cincyhawk]

Umm... NO. It was George Raveling that followed Lute. Raveling could recruit at a high level but my grandma was a better game coach. After getting all that talent, George was let go and they brought in Mr. Davis. He won immediately with George's recruits. But after they were gone, he never really attained that level again. Yeah, Mr. Davis never lost a first round NCAA game, but after the first year when he won 30, he never won more than 24 games (and that was his second year). And Mr. Davis did this with pretty much the same number of games during the season and playing the same low-level teams as pre-season.

Isn't it amazing what we forget. Totally forgot Raveling, sorry.

 

[BigD]

Isn't it amazing what we forget. Totally forgot Raveling, sorry.

I mentioned it in a recent thread that if Raveling would have stayed on as a recruiter with Tom Davis this program would have been among the tops in the country. His Achilles Heal was during game adjustments. He also sweated perfusively during games. It was a very common site to see him walking the sidelines with a handkerchief in his hand to wipe off his forehead. I actually liked him. The fact that he had a stuttering problem didn’t bother me either. I would take him back over Alford and Lickliter. Jury is still out on Fran.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I think Tom Davis could walk in today and do more with this team tomorrow.

Yea, he'd love that depth and know what to do with it. It would be the full-time full court hard press with line changes.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I'll admit that at the time I was ready for a change, but I was young and stupid. Mr. Davis wasn't perfect but he could coach. Even his worst teams made you think "these guys are gonna be good someday".

The guy had two McDonald All-American's on that one team and Woolridge should have been another. He plucked Mr. Basketball out of the state of Michigan for kripes sakes. He coached up the Bowen's, Koch's and Millard's of world to make them 2nd round draft picks.

Who is the last McDonald's All-American Iowa has had? Few if any since.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Mr. Davis's curse was that he followed Lute Olsen, and Olsen went to Zona and won ships.

No it wasn't. Raveling had a cup of coffee with Iowa and actually got the stud players in for Davis's first successful teams. Davis was at Iowa for many years and had success with top 20 teams. He was not the prototypical first coach after the legend that only lasted for 3 years. He was more than that to Iowa.

 

[SpiderRico]

I wasn’t a huge fan of Mr. Davis’s halfcourt offense or defense but he always seemed to have a team that could create turnovers with the press and a PG who could lead the team. JB is a SG forced to play PG because of poor recruiting at that position

I actually like his halfcourt offense....Mr. Davis taught Bo Ryan that Swing offense. It was the halfcourt zone defense that always irked me.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Some of the players on the roster were not alive when Mr. Davis was coach here. His last season I remember Michigan State and Purdue running through the Iowa press like it was a 3 on 1 drill. Guard play is way too good to have a defense like that now.

Good point. It is. Actually, it's that most players (3, 4 and 5) can now dribble pretty well so it's difficult to create turnovers. Back in the day it was give it to the 1 and 2 in the middle of the court. Now, any player can pretty much advance the ball so you end up giving the other team a fast break opportunity.

Hell, Tyler Cook can bring the ball up if he has to.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Umm... NO. It was George Raveling that followed Lute. Raveling could recruit at a high level but my grandma was a better game coach. After getting all that talent, George was let go and they brought in Mr. Davis. He won immediately with George's recruits. But after they were gone, he never really attained that level again. Yeah, Mr. Davis never lost a first round NCAA game, but after the first year when he won 30, he never won more than 24 games (and that was his second year). And Mr. Davis did this with pretty much the same number of games during the season and playing the same low-level teams as pre-season.

Yep.

 

[revkev73]

Tom peaked out...

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I would guess that what we get with Fran from now on will be the same as what we got with Davis after the first couple years.

I not selling on him quite yet, just because of the personnel he is recruiting. But, his teams have to start rebounding and playing better defense or I will sell. They are giving the other team too many additional chances giving up rebounds. That is so important for a team's success, rebounding!

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Tom peaked out...

...... then his recruiting tailed off at the end, I believe. I don't think it was more that Iowa had to get rid of Davis, I think was more that they didn't think they should pass on the young and upcoming Alford, who just had a Sweet 16 team at Southwest Missouri St.

 

[revkev73]

Alford had a lot of glitter sitting on the Christmas shelf...

I guess I am a shoot for a national title, final four guy...if you can't get there in 10 years...time to dust off the shelf...look around.

Fran's teams often look "self-defeating", and poorly coached, unable to sustain much, with big, big "death zones" where they can do nothing for 10 minute stretches.

I am concerned this team is on a death spiral this year...without a point guard, and without much coaching leadership...but yet, perhaps next year or the following will be the deciding factor from me.

With Fran...one has to take into account how far in the gutter the AD had led this program...

Fran just doesn't come across to me as that "bright" of a coach...noted more for his outbursts than brilliant coaching move or player development.

Oh, yes...the big PG black hole is there...

 

[1977Hawkeye]

...... then his recruiting tailed off at the end, I believe. I don't think it was more that Iowa had to get rid of Davis, I think was more that they didn't think they should pass on the young and upcoming Alford, who just had a Sweet 16 team at Southwest Missouri St.

That's not how I remember it. From what I recall, the decision to let Davis go was made sometime after the 1997-98 season, when Iowa lost in the NIT first round to UGA. Hence the "lame duck" title his last year. Alford didn't make the Sweet 16 until a year later, the 1999 tournament. It was Bowlsby and his "next level" talk, but I've also heard speculation that there was some serious disagreement between Davis & Bowlsby over the recruitment of Joey Range.. Guess that's just that, though - speculation. I don't have any definite facts. But it's not like Iowa up and decided to drop Davis after Alford went to the Sweet 16, because that's not how it went down.

Someone also mentioned that Davis went to the NCAA's just 3 times in his final 6 years. But you could also say that he went 3 of his last 4. 1996, 97, and 99 (Sweet 16).

The 1993-94 and 1994-95 seasons weren't great.. But Chris Street should have been on that 1993-94 team, and James Winters missed a lot of the Big Ten with a badly sprained ankle that year.. A lot of people may forget that he was averaging 18 ppg and 6.6 rebounds. That year could have looked a lot better with better fortune with the personnel.

There's no arguing that Davis didn't do as well with his own recruits as he did with Lute/Raveling's guys. Was he the best coach we've ever had? No. He's been better than anybody we've had since, though.

 

[PCHawk]

...... then his recruiting tailed off at the end, I believe. I don't think it was more that Iowa had to get rid of Davis, I think was more that they didn't think they should pass on the young and upcoming Alford, who just had a Sweet 16 team at Southwest Missouri St.

And that's the way you should get rid of an average to slightly above average coach. You don't fire a guy like Davis or Fran because of their results. You start looking around for better options, and when one presents himself, whether it's that year or 3 years later, you make the move. Even if you happen to make the sweet 16 that year. What you don't do is settle for someone just for the sake of driving out a coach right now.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

The guy had two McDonald All-American's on that one team and Woolridge should have been another. He plucked Mr. Basketball out of the state of Michigan for kripes sakes. He coached up the Bowen's, Koch's and Millard's of world to make them 2nd round draft picks.

Who is the last McDonald's All-American Iowa has had? Few if any since.

Yup. He was no Raveling, but Davis recruited better than most seem to give him credit for. I forgot about Kenyon Murray. Davis pulled him out of Michigan when Steve Fisher was up there reeling in the Fab 5, and Jud Heathcote was still coaching MSU. That recruiting battle was no small victory.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

And that's the way you should get rid of an average to slightly above average coach. You don't fire a guy like Davis or Fran because of their results. You start looking around for better options, and when one presents himself, whether it's that year or 3 years later, you make the move. Even if you happen to make the sweet 16 that year. What you don't do is settle for someone just for the sake of driving out a coach right now.

Except as I pointed out, that's not how it happened. The decision to not renew Davis's contract was made before either he or Alford made the Sweet 16 in '99. I thought it was sometime in the off-season following Iowa's NIT loss to UGA in '98.

I agree with you in principle, though. It's smart to have something in place and then make your move, rather than pulling the trigger and hoping you can get your guy.

 

[PCHawk]

I not selling on him quite yet, just because of the personnel he is recruiting. But, his teams have to start rebounding and playing better defense or I will sell. They are giving the other team too many additional chances giving up rebounds. That is so important for a team's success, rebounding!

It's amazing how bad everyone can look when a team is in a slump. Then how good everyone can look when they are playing good. Right now the difference between us and other bubble teams is we give up at least 5 wide open layups per game. That's 10 points we give them while having to earn them at the other end. Take those defensive breakdowns for layups away, and we look like a bubble team.

 

[N8theGr8]

This talk of Fran stagnating is downright silly. I could not be more excited for the future of this program. There are no guarantees, but even this season history tells us Fran is capable of better than .500 and an NIT berth. Specifically, I'm thinking back to 2011-2012, where Gatens put the team on his back and carried them into the post season after a sluggish 5-5 start losing to Creighton, UNI, and ISU. By years end they even had wins at Wisconsin and finished 4-3 against the top 25. I wouldn't even be surprised if this years team is the one to finally make a run in the big ten tournament. And when all is said and done to push us into the NCAA's.

That doesn't even mention Wieskamp and the McCaffery boys already in the fold for the future. Fran can recruit and has been increasing the talent level of the program over his tenure. The high level guards are coming starting next year to go along with already high level (albeit young) post talent and dangerous 3 point shooters.

Fran is the man who will take us to the top.

 

[GotTimDodge]

We need a good african american coach.